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Fantastic season, I'm glad they focused a lot on Tench but it's a shame they didn't Carr and Smith much to do towards the end. Smith especially with all the suggestions he might be closeted or into some more raunchy sex stuff. Maybe it's something they'll touch on in season 3. My only real gripe was the score, some scenes felt really overscored and inappropriately so with super creepy music when there was no real reason for any tension. It just felt really out of place a few times. I took me a while to warm up to the storyline with Tench's kid but I like having that character's personal life heavily parallel things he sees in his work. The guy playing Manson was amazing too. Holy cow did he milk every minute of that scene.
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Aug 17, 2019 20:51
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He's the same dude that played Dewey Crowe in Justified. He was great in that too. Totally different character if you want to see how good that actor's range is.
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Aug 17, 2019 21:25
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They are trying to mirror each of main characters with the serial killer personality type. Ford is the compulsive one who is excited by being in the presence of the killers and jumps to conclusions with his new methodology, Carr compartmentalizes her feelings around her homophobic coworkers and ignores the militaristic caveman politics of DC just like the killers pretend they are innocent or are manipulated pawns, Tench is the "bad father" that manufactures the killers by being a stern authoritarian. As Chuckles Manson said his family were Tench's kids. Tench's storyline is a little lame.
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Aug 17, 2019 21:27
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Haha, this is great - Damon Herriman didn't just play Manson in Mindhunter this year, he also played Manson in Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood... ! drat, the guy plays Manson for Fincher AND Tarantino in the same year - that's special. I haven't seen the Tarantino film yet, so I don't really know how prominent or defined his role as Manson is there, but he must have tapped into something... er, sort of terrifying inside himself to get to a place where Fincher and Tarantino are casting you as *Charles Manson* in different productions in the same year.
kaworu fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Aug 17, 2019 |
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Aug 17, 2019 21:33
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Dmitri-9 posted:Does any expert have a theory on why Dean Corll killed those boys? Dahmer was just wired wrong and Gacy was beaten to unconsciousness by his father but I can't find a similar explanation for Dean Corll. Stare-Out posted:Fantastic season, I'm glad they focused a lot on Tench but it's a shame they didn't Carr and Smith much to do towards the end. I'm really hoping the 3rd season will be Carr focused. 1st was Holdens, 2nd was Tenchs. I think they could do a lot with her and developing the standards in profiling. The Manson scene was awesome. He did such a great job portraying him. Like someone said on the previous page him sitting on the chair 'preaching' to his family was so totally him and adding to that he trying to be the taller/bigger man since he is incredibly short. And when he and Tench are just yelling at each other I think Tench finally notices the similarities between his work and his son now and it scared him. kaworu posted:Haha, this is great - Damon Herriman didn't just play Manson in Mindhunter this year, he also played Manson in Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood... ! drat, the guy plays Manson for Fincher AND Tarantino in the same year - that's special. I haven't seen the Tarantino film yet, so I don't really know how prominent or defined his role as Manson is there, but he must have tapped into something... er, sort of terrifying inside himself to get to a place where Fincher and Tarantino are casting you as *Charles Manson* in different productions in the same year. Yea I asked about that on the previous page. mr. unhsib posted:Once Upon A Time in Hollywood: Manson is barely in it. He has like two lines of dialogue.
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Aug 17, 2019 22:06
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My problem with Tensh storyline is they are laying it on too thick. The first season was perfect how the child sort of had these signs. They could have gotten the point across the same by having the kid kill a cat or something instead of being part of some weird murder plot. All the serial killers that are portrayed do a great job. Not just acting but in how they look. Manson and Berkowitz look identical. From episode 6 I believe, can someone explain the ending with the cross? Why was it so important and what was the significance of her looking at him like that? I felt like I missed something.
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Aug 17, 2019 22:15
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Niwrad posted:
I think it was an indicator of how bungled that relationship was. The community group had agreed to work with the investigators and alter the process of their grieving to assist the police but then instead of a dignified, solemn commemoration there was a sweaty white dude frantically trying to assemble a cross as they were walking up. It wasn't Holden's fault, but it exemplified the lack of respect for the community in general. I am less sure why they did the old newsreel film effect over that sequence, though.
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Aug 17, 2019 22:29
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finally on season 2 after my rewatch, jesus that end of episode one was great. I hope the theme of 'Holden has to face what a glory hounding psycho he's being' keeps up. That speech was a long time coming.
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Aug 17, 2019 22:33
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sexpig by night posted:finally on season 2 after my rewatch, jesus that end of episode one was great. I hope the theme of 'Holden has to face what a glory hounding psycho he's being' keeps up. That speech was a long time coming. I totally agree that Holden needed to be taken down a peg, but at the same time, if you've ever worked for absolute cock sucker of a boss like Shepard you kinda also feel for Holden. Sure they blindsided him with stuff, but a guy that actually felt what they were doing was important would go to bat for them, much like their new boss. Also, Shepard saying he's being forced out by Holden is some petty bullshit. What Shepard fails to realize is the Holden thing is just an excuse to get rid of a dude who has been in for TWENTY SEVEN YEARS and refuses to retire and his attitude towards science, the post-Hoover "modern" FBI, and the BSU in general is and has always been conflicted, and now he's an active detriment to what their doing. TL;DR He's being forced out because he's old as poo poo and refuses to change. As an aside there's a detail in the first ep of season 2, when Rader's wife comes home and sets the groceries on the table the bag has a Dillon's logo, which is a grocery store chain that only exists in Kansas and it was a pretty wild on point detail that only a few people would ever get. 
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Aug 17, 2019 23:14
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I've probably missed something very obvious (I watched some of the episodes on my 2nd monitor while I did other stuff) but why was the season bookended by the creepy auto-erotic asphyxiation masturbator guy? It seems like he played no other role in any of the episodes. It makes sense having him as the last shot of the season to foreshadow season three, but why also the first scene in episode one?
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Aug 17, 2019 23:27
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Errr, he's BTK. He's been in the series since the first episode. My guess is they're showing he can't stop himself.
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Aug 17, 2019 23:31
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Bardeh posted:I've probably missed something very obvious (I watched some of the episodes on my 2nd monitor while I did other stuff) but why was the season bookended by the creepy auto-erotic asphyxiation masturbator guy? It seems like he played no other role in any of the episodes. It makes sense having him as the last shot of the season to foreshadow season three, but why also the first scene in episode one? So earlier in the season his wife catches him doing the same basic thing in their bathroom. She ends up giving him books to help 'cure' him. This final scene is to show he didn't change at all if anything he got more depraved (this time he has his trophies out to look at). BTK is being built up since the first season as the final boss. Best guess for time frame for this season is between 1979-1981. BTK doesn't get captured until 2005 and in the show still has more murders to commit. He will be around probably till the final season I imagine. Especially because BSU got the entire profile of him wrong. He did go to church, had a family, was a member of the community and had no criminal history. I would imagine this will play big in the later seasons as the try to catch him even though he basically was an idiot and got caught on his own
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Aug 17, 2019 23:41
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D'oh, of course. I should pay more attention really. E: I just found and am watching BTK's confession from 2005 and holy gently caress 
Bardeh fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Aug 17, 2019 |
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Aug 17, 2019 23:45
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Solice Kirsk posted:Errr, he's BTK. He's been in the series since the first episode. My guess is they're showing he can't stop himself. I think it's also obliquely referring to all the criticisms of the profiling approach in general - for all the apparent successes, they have no idea at all what is going on with this guy.
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Aug 17, 2019 23:56
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not having the first killer interview until half an hour into the second ep is unforgivable.
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Aug 18, 2019 00:00
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Digital Jedi posted:So earlier in the season his wife catches him doing the same basic thing in their bathroom. She ends up giving him books to help 'cure' him. This final scene is to show he didn't change at all if anything he got more depraved (this time he has his trophies out to look at). He almost wanted to be caught. I won't spoil his later interactions with the police for the thread but they are wild.
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Aug 18, 2019 00:18
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Julius CSAR posted:I totally agree that Holden needed to be taken down a peg, but at the same time, if you've ever worked for absolute cock sucker of a boss like Shepard you kinda also feel for Holden. Sure they blindsided him with stuff, but a guy that actually felt what they were doing was important would go to bat for them, much like their new boss. Also, Shepard saying he's being forced out by Holden is some petty bullshit. What Shepard fails to realize is the Holden thing is just an excuse to get rid of a dude who has been in for TWENTY SEVEN YEARS and refuses to retire and his attitude towards science, the post-Hoover "modern" FBI, and the BSU in general is and has always been conflicted, and now he's an active detriment to what their doing. TL;DR He's being forced out because he's old as poo poo and refuses to change. yea this is true, Shepard was hardly a good boss for them by any measure, it was just very satisfying to hear 'are you seriously this unaware of how destructive you are or is this an elaborate mask you're putting on like a sociopath' from someone who knows him. evenworse username posted:I think it's also obliquely referring to all the criticisms of the profiling approach in general - for all the apparent successes, they have no idea at all what is going on with this guy. It seriously is brilliant framing. (Episode 2 spoiler) Having them, after the whole last season showing him as a normal guy who has a job, is not a loner, is even a little charming with one person, and reveal he has a wife even despite his deviant behavior, deliver the infamous 'BTK is a loner, he doesn't go to church, has trouble with relationships and a history of trouble with the law' profile in its infancy with the 'this guy doesn't go to church' line that the BSU got so wrong was golden.
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Aug 18, 2019 00:20
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Yea I basically agree with that. If it wasn't for how he did, he would of just keep doing more and more similar things providing more clues till he got caught. He wanted to come out and be known. Get the attention and be recognized for the terror he created
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Aug 18, 2019 00:21
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I guess this is...history spoilers? Like, if you wanna be surprised how BTK gets busted don't read I guess? I guess it's more niche than 'spoiler, America wins the war of independence'? I just want them to recreate BTK making the feds pinky swear that they can't get his info off a floppy disk before sending them a floppy with all his info in it
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Aug 18, 2019 00:24
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sexpig by night posted:I guess this is...history spoilers? Like, if you wanna be surprised how BTK gets busted don't read I guess? I guess it's more niche than 'spoiler, America wins the war of independence'? that is funniest poo poo. he would've got away with it. i do hope they go into profiling being utter bullshit because acting like it was real was the second weakest part of the first season (the agents' personal lives being the weakest).
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Aug 18, 2019 00:29
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Groovelord Neato posted:that is funniest poo poo. he would've got away with it. I dunno as someone who deeply hates profiling as a 'science' I like their handling of it. Profiling is complete bunk for actually figuring out 'your suspect is Jim Rodgers he's 27, white, lives with his abusive mother, had one girlfriend that ended badly, and has a fetish for getting his nipples twisted, I know all this by seeing one picture of a crime scene' but it is a tool for helping study the killers themselves and working for treatment and such. Plus they do a good job of showing how deeply vague and unhelpful it can be, narrowing it down to 'you're looking for a disturbed young white man' helps but if you, say, find two young disturbed white men like they did in the middle of season 1 you're kinda stuck with normal police work to figure out what's what.
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Aug 18, 2019 00:32
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i thought the hotel lady wanted to bang holden and then the second i saw the women at the table i knew it'd be the atlanta child murders. kinda brings into focus what a bunch of weirdos we are for having encyclopedic knowledge of serial killers that everything is instantly spoiled for us.
Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Aug 18, 2019 |
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Aug 18, 2019 00:44
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Someone earlier was asking about any documentaries on the Atlanta Child Murderers, well I can't name any great ones but as with all serial killers there was a podcast dedicated to it called Atlanta Monster and it was really good. Covered all the angles. If you really want a straight up documentary then the most recent and decent one is problem the CNN one from like a decade ago but it's not very in depth. I'd stick with the podcast. The same people did a Zodiac podcast this year that was really good too. The podcast is from last year but just a couple weeks ago they updated to include an episode where they actually interview John Douglas about the case. https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/how-stuff-works/atlanta-monster/e/62938129 X-O fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Aug 18, 2019 |
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Aug 18, 2019 01:23
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evenworse username posted:
I think they used the weird filming effect to highlight how close Holden was to another full-blown panic attack. He was getting increasingly desperate to fulfill his goal of getting the cross up before the procession arrived, and every misstep, delay and turnaround added to the tension. He would have completely imploded if he didn't get there when he did. He had failed to keep his word to the mothers at every turn and it was killing him. Granted, it wasn't much of a success, he kept his word but was obviously barely able to and made a minor spectacle of himself in the bargain. And that little white cross sitting there on the church steps was just impotent. But Holden technically got the crosses into place (remember the honeypot ones were being put into place further down the line at a couple of abduction sites) and that was enough to let himself calm down.
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Aug 18, 2019 04:25
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Groovelord Neato posted:that is funniest poo poo. he would've got away with it. sexpig by night posted:I dunno as someone who deeply hates profiling as a 'science' I like their handling of it. Profiling is complete bunk for actually figuring out 'your suspect is Jim Rodgers he's 27, white, lives with his abusive mother, had one girlfriend that ended badly, and has a fetish for getting his nipples twisted, I know all this by seeing one picture of a crime scene' but it is a tool for helping study the killers themselves and working for treatment and such. yeah, I think the show has actually done a pretty good job with this aspect and keeping things ambiguous, especially as it has gone further on you don't choose BTK as a framing device for the entire show if your intention is to uncritically cheerlead profiling but having it be at least apparently initially successful despite being so sloppy/ad-hoc is pretty important to explaining the enthusiasm with which it's embraced by the characters and eventually law enforcement/the public/etc. tbh the terrible law enforcement thing that I'm most curious about how/if they'll address is the satanic panic, because Ann Burgess (who Dr. Wendy Carr is based on) played a significant role in that playing out the way it did
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Aug 18, 2019 04:48
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season 3 i'm gonna be skipping through all the personal life poo poo. i dunno why they decided they needed more of it.
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Aug 18, 2019 12:21
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Holy poo poo that was Dewey Crowe? 
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Aug 18, 2019 12:24
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this series is really good. i find most true crime stuff extremely distasteful/exploitative, but mindhunter seems to avoid that.
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Aug 18, 2019 12:54
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Groovelord Neato posted:season 3 i'm gonna be skipping through all the personal life poo poo. i dunno why they decided they needed more of it.
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Aug 18, 2019 13:25
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Solice Kirsk posted:He's the same dude that played Dewey Crowe in Justified. He was great in that too. Totally different character if you want to see how good that actor's range is. that was damon herriman???? jesus, I didn't even realize until now. I did feel his voice was familiar but disregarded it as a brainfart.
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Aug 18, 2019 13:37
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Dante posted:Yeah I did that with all of season 2 and the show was honestly better for it. In 99% of cases the characters are more compelling than the story they are in, but it's the reverse in this show - and they should let it be that way. i'm on ep 6 and i gave up on watching the personal stuff. just skipping to the meat and potatoes. legit blows my mind that kept that poo poo in when it sucked in the first season too.
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Aug 18, 2019 14:16
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I dunno guys. I thought Holden's personal life in Season 1 was painfully dull and boring, but to me the problem (aside from poor writing and a paint-by-numbers relationship arc) was that Holden wasn't remotely sympathetic as a character, and it was difficult to have much empathy for him or his girlfriend, whom we barely got to know. I think the stuff with Tench and Wendy this season is like, way better done than the character work in Season 1. To me, it just has more to do with Bill and Wendy being far more interesting and complex characters. Like, if Holden was the protagonist in Season 1, and the major focus of the show over the course of that season was how Kemper impacted Holden and the way he saw the world... Then I really feel like Bill is the major protagonist of this season, and from the first episode we are seeing things more from his perspective than Holden's. BTK is Bill's case initially, not Holden's. But I still haven't gotten to the end, yet. I think it could use more Kemper though, just one scene wasn't enough! I am very excited to watch the final third of the season, though. The racism stuff in Atlanta is a bit on the nose given today's climate, but it's definitely very interesting. I'm embarrassed to admit that I had never even HEARD about the Atlanta Child killings before. Awful.
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Aug 18, 2019 15:34
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Finished up the season, I hope we don't have to wait another 2 years for the next one. I had heard of the Atlanta Child Killings before but I have to admit I had just kinda blindly assumed that the case had been definitively solved and closed.
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Aug 18, 2019 16:47
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Much like the Oakland County Child Killer they think it was ring of people committing the crimes.
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Aug 18, 2019 18:06
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LGD posted:tbh the terrible law enforcement thing that I'm most curious about how/if they'll address is the satanic panic, because Ann Burgess (who Dr. Wendy Carr is based on) played a significant role in that playing out the way it did Oh poo poo I forgot she's based on Burgess! Yea they better cover her absolutely ghoulish role in that poo poo. It'd be good storytelling to have the 'rational voice' in the team slowly slide into the hysteria and maybe even parallel it with Holden's own paranoia elements and all.
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Aug 18, 2019 21:39
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i was kinda disappointed in the season. the crime stuff was good but the personal life stuff is (as i've said a dozen times) poo poo so it's like getting half a show. also manson is so played out and you need more kemper.
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Aug 18, 2019 23:29
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They'd have to make a big time jump to get to the satanic stuff Burgess got into. Curious who they move to for season 3. Robert Hanson probably fits the timeline best.
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Aug 18, 2019 23:32
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Niwrad posted:They'd have to make a big time jump to get to the satanic stuff Burgess got into. Curious who they move to for season 3. Robert Hanson probably fits the timeline best. you're probably right about Hanson, and the FBI BSU/the guy Ford is based on were heavily involved in that case they've also got a lot of interviews with famous serial killers they weren't involved in catching coming up, because the next season is about when they'd have been able to talk to people like Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy (who grew up ~4 blocks from the dude Tench is based on and claimed to have known him as a kid) but I don't think it's that big a time jump, because the SRA stuff ran from '88-94 or so (with Burgess' conference being in 1989), and they'll need to do some serious character prep work to explain how the characters we have would get there I actually think that might be one of the areas where the thing with Tench's kid might be going (in addition to the obvious psycopath triangle and are-killers-born-or-made aspects)
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Aug 19, 2019 00:08
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Is Ted's wife the most annoying since Skyler White?
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Aug 19, 2019 04:26
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Sierra Nevadan posted:Is Ted's wife the most annoying since Skyler White? She's aiight, she's trying, but shes a horrible communicator.
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Aug 19, 2019 04:51
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