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John Douglas made a rather cryptic comment some time in the last few years. I don't recall if this was in one of his books, or in an interview. But he basically said that Williams committed some of the murders, but he wasn't the only offender. And that "the truth is very unpleasant" and I believe he implied that people on the Atlanta PD and/or in city hall knew the truth. I always thought this might have meant that the KKK took the opportunity, since black kids were being murdered, to murder some themselves.
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Aug 26, 2019 05:36
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TheBizzness posted:Dude. There is not a more appropriate emoji for what you just did to my brain. seriously fuckin same 
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Aug 26, 2019 06:27
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Tench plays a badass US Marshal in Michael Mann's Blackhat.
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Aug 26, 2019 22:54
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The 2000 show Freedom has a very young Tench running resistance against a totalitarian US government. It was a decent action show with Hong Kong legend Corey Yuen directing. https://www.tvobscurities.com/articles/freedom/
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Aug 27, 2019 09:39
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He's also in Shotcaller isn't he? As the Aryan dude?
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Aug 27, 2019 09:49
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I know him mainly from Lights Out, the boxing drama that ran for one season on FX. I really enjoyed that show.
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Aug 27, 2019 13:40
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Jerusalem posted:The recurring scenes with the BTK, as noted, are seemingly to continually remind the viewer that the entire process these guys are building ultimately completely failed to predict or accurately model the actual killer, who was only caught because he wanted to show off and took them at their word when they said they couldn't get identifying marks from a floppy disc if he sent them one. I think BTK works as a great example of both the usefulness and the limitations of profiling because you're right, if we're judging by the way Holden seems to want things to work, they failed. They were never able to really nail down an accurate profile on BTK that led to any decent leads or suspects. BUT, at the same time there were some basic psychological insights about him that they were able to use in that crucial decision with the floppy disc. It's a tough choice, do we lie to the guy? Knowing that if he catches us in an obvious lie we might lose our only line of communication with him? Is this some sort of trap? Knowing how practiced and organized he was, I do think it took some insight into his personality to correctly identify that he had come to legitimately trust the investigators, and that trust was reliable to the point that he would actually send that disc like a dumbass, as opposed to the disciplined killer that he seemed to be on the surface.
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Aug 27, 2019 14:21
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Doorknob Slobber posted:im listening to the podcast mentioned earlier and wow, i wish they'd touched on some of this stuff more than some of the family or personal stuff holy poo poo. like homer being involved in the manhattan project jesus christ what madness I'm glad you checked it out, it's good! Season 2 is on the Zodiac and it's not as good. Well, it might be, I just find the Zodiac to be super over explored so there were zero surprises for me.
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Aug 27, 2019 19:16
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Croatoan posted:I'm glad you checked it out, it's good! Season 2 is on the Zodiac and it's not as good. Well, it might be, I just find the Zodiac to be super over explored so there were zero surprises for me. Yea at this point I think of Zodiac as better suited for fiction than for non-fiction. Fincher's film kinda definitively explored the actual events so no other version or adaptation will top that. I always thought you could do a pulpy story about Zodiac(who referred to himself as "Sam" in a phone call) moving cross country to NY in the mid-70s to get away from the heat and setting up a group that David Berkowitz ends up being a part of in 1977.
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Aug 27, 2019 19:22
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Good season, definitely thrown off by the end when they are throwing theories at the wall and trying to figure out how to pin Wayne when the cops just walk in Deus ex machina style and arrest him. "oh off screen Gunn and Webster applied pressure and congrats here's a private plane". that said on further thought it does seem more realistic as Holden/Tench shouldn't be responsible/at every pivotal moment, they really are just there to help and plenty of things are going on above and below them. Also, Tench summarizing his hosed up family situation to Holden as a low key "gently caress off leave me alone" was great.
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Aug 28, 2019 16:51
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I'd be pretty shocked if season 3 isn't the Green River Killer. The time frame fits with the majority of his many murders being 82-84, Douglas almost died during the investigation, and the task force interviewed Bundy for his "insights".
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Aug 29, 2019 09:59
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kaworu posted:fake edit: I also would kinda recommend Manhunt: Unabomber. It is NOT mindhunter, and doesn't have the precision and film-like photography and so forth. But it is a very interesting and well-made show about a very interesting subject. Also, we don't get many "period pieces" from the mid-late '90s, and it's a time period I'm extremely fascinated by, in a way I watched it. I agree, Bettany is amazing as the Unabomber, but other than that the show kinda fell flat for me in a big way, and those ways were pretty much the parts where it WASN'T like Mindhunter. I really didn't like how they elevated Fitz into being the only competent agent in the FBI, and how he basically single-handedly caught the Unabomber, when the real Fitz was just one of many agents who did good work. I didn't like how they turned him into a recluse who buys the Unabomber's manifesto and so just skipped out on the FBI to go live in the woods in his own Unabomber cabin for two years only to be brought back because the Unabomber will ONLY TALK TO HIM and he has to save the investigation again. I especially liked how the ending of the show was the traditional "superior takes credit for the unsung hero's work" ending, which was super ironic because the show takes the unsung agents' work and gives all the credit to Fitz. It was just ... urgh. It could've been so good, but instead it was such a clichéd "cop chases serial killer" TV show.
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Aug 29, 2019 10:37
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God drat, the ending was chilling with BTK setting himself up plus the knowledge that after this he killed two additional people and basically lived a full life before he got caught. And that Peter Gabriel song, which is called Intruder btw, great choice.
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Aug 29, 2019 14:27
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Just finished episode 4 what the fuuuuck
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Aug 31, 2019 02:18
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I gotta say. I feel where she was coming from, but Tench's wife seemed unreasonable. Like, it's not like he didn't have a drat good reason not to be around and he was putting an absurd amount of effort in to be there when he could, flying across the country 4 times a week so he could be with his family.
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Aug 31, 2019 18:57
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Overall I liked season one a lot more than the first one, trying to use all their information to solve crime is much more interesting to me that interviewing crazy killer #36, apart from Kemper, he is cool. One thing I found odd was that Holden is being framed as some loose cannon that needed to be steered in the right direction, when he simply doesn't care about politics or bureaucracy. It is also unfair since Tench pretty much told him to edit the transcripts in the first season, yet Holden got all the flack for it.
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Sep 2, 2019 11:55
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Jerusalem posted:Oh God I loved that it wasn't until much later in the season that we find out the tests Holden performed were in Baltimore, not Atlanta
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Sep 2, 2019 14:13
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Oasx posted:One thing I found odd was that Holden is being framed as some loose cannon that needed to be steered in the right direction, when he simply doesn't care about politics or bureaucracy. The show is all about how politics and bureaucracy is very important and anyone that doesn't care about that is a loose cannon according to the FBI. But the show also show how Holden's social incompetence also make it impossible for him to see how what he's doing also pisses of the black community in Atlanta.
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Sep 2, 2019 16:10
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The political part is big of course but it is also true that Holden ignores agreed upon procedures for the interviews basically whenever he feels like it.
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Sep 2, 2019 18:39
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evenworse username posted:The political part is big of course but it is also true that Holden ignores agreed upon procedures for the interviews basically whenever he feels like it. Yes but his instincts
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Sep 2, 2019 18:42
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tench saying the words "systemic racism" did stretch believability a bit
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Sep 2, 2019 20:57
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nooneofconsequence posted:They put it in big white letters on the screen! I actually completely missed that somehow, not sure how but that's even funnier that they just laid out right from the start that he was making assumptions and then discounting other possibilities based on them.
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Sep 3, 2019 03:50
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I feel like they could’ve taken a full episode out of the season. We didn’t need every cent of Wendy fighting with her girlfriend, every scene of Atlanta folks telling Holden to be accountable, and we certainly didn’t need six different times of Bill coming home to find out his son had done something bad. Holden barely had a subplot in a season that was 10 hours long. We didn’t see Barney outside of police work a single time, did we? Agent Smith disappeared as well. There are ways to show a police investigation that isn’t going anywhere: the car montage was funny and covered five weeks in a matter of minutes. More Gunn, more Barney. Less of Bill and his wife saying they need to be serious and finally talk about something.
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Sep 9, 2019 03:16
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They released the VFX breakdown for the season and it's cool as hell like the first one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlD8jJMITLk
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Nov 15, 2019 23:30
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Golden Bee posted:I feel like they could’ve taken a full episode out of the season. We didn’t need every cent of Wendy fighting with her girlfriend, every scene of Atlanta folks telling Holden to be accountable, and we certainly didn’t need six different times of Bill coming home to find out his son had done something bad. 100% this. If I wanted a show about FBI agents' home lives I'd be watching a different show. As it is I'm on episode 8 and I'm really starting to lose interest, even the actual investigation has been 90% the higher-ups in the police ignoring the BSU and doing poo poo that doesn't achieve anything while Holden sits in the background making a face (it probably doesn't help that I'm reasonably familiar with the case so I know ahead of time how pointless most of the things they're trying are). Hopefully it picks in the last couple episodes.
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Dec 26, 2019 22:18
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Julio Cruz posted:100% this. If I wanted a show about FBI agents' home lives I'd be watching a different show. As it is I'm on episode 8 and I'm really starting to lose interest, even the actual investigation has been 90% the higher-ups in the police ignoring the BSU and doing poo poo that doesn't achieve anything while Holden sits in the background making a face (it probably doesn't help that I'm reasonably familiar with the case so I know ahead of time how pointless most of the things they're trying are). Hopefully it picks in the last couple episodes. I think it works well to show the parallels between their work and their home lives, how one effects the other and that if it was just FBI work and serial killer interviews it would get old. Love the show and bummed I'm finished with it but not entirely on board the Bill's kid sub plot. I thought the murder scene element was a bridge too far and simply having Brian being troubled was enough. Also, they make a point to let us know that Bill and has wife don't know what happened to Brian earlier in his life before the orphanage so I think that's relevant, along with the kid finding the crime scene photos.
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Dec 30, 2019 18:03
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Everything with their home lives is incredibly uninteresting. Starting season three I think I'm just gonna skip anything that isn't the interviews/investigations because at most I'd be missing out on maybe on or two scenes where the camera focuses on a detective looking grumpy a little longer and I wouldn't know why. I can live with that.
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Dec 30, 2019 21:33
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The home life could have been interesting. As it is it's pretty much just filler as there isn't really any sort of payoff to any of it. Seems like it was an afterthought so they could pad the seasons out. Obviously at least some of the home life is so the show can get Netflix's quota for Titties and booties.
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Dec 31, 2019 06:23
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https://tvline.com/2020/01/15/mindhunter-season-3-netflix-cancelled-renewed/ Well don't get your hopes up to see Season 3 any time in the near future.
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Jan 16, 2020 04:05
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Tbh as much as I loved season 1 I thought season 2 was kind of meh and that it worked better as a single season. So while I'd have watched season three it's not exactly devastating news. Loved the cast and want to see them working though.
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Jan 16, 2020 04:14
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Well that's a shame, but probably not entirely surprising given Fincher seemed pretty hands on with it and his schedule really doesn't leave much room for that type of thing.
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Jan 16, 2020 04:31
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A final RIP https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1319680751554732032
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Oct 23, 2020 22:39
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Was just about the post that. Really sad about it. I really wanted to see where they go the next season and especially the whole BTK slow burn. I'll enjoy what we got but I'll always want more That last sentence does leave a possibility! See ya in 5 years!
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Oct 23, 2020 23:31
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It is a drat shame even if the second season had its problems. I always liked the conflicting beliefs in Behavioral Science as a technique, especially because there were all these signs that if Holden could have been restrained somewhat they might have actually managed to get some actual credible science into profiling, but at the same time they weren't going to get anywhere if Holden wasn't constantly pushing for Behavioral Science to be a thing at all. He was simultaneously its greatest asset and its biggest liability, and little things like his profile of BTK being absolutely, 100% inaccurate will never get their payoff now. One of my favorite moments came in I think season 1, where Holden is just over-the-moon at their techniques having solved a case, and Tench replies,"....uhh, what solved the case was us doing legwork, collecting evidence and then using that evidence to break a guy in interrogation...." and Holden just wanting no part of that because he's convinced he's found the magic spell to solve cases.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:49
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The tuna can filled with ants is the thing that resonated with me the most. From the second she put it there after hearing a cat meowing to the point where she tried to retrieve/replace it. That reminds me that she did have the whole girlfriend plot in the second season. I feel like that wasn't don't well. I could barely remember it because I was more focused on the main plot.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:56
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Fartington Butts posted:The tuna can filled with ants is the thing that resonated with me the most. From the second she put it there after hearing a cat meowing to the point where she tried to retrieve/replace it. I remember that plotline exclusively because they filmed the scene where they go to the movies on the main street in my town  (the scene where they arrest that guy who left porn in the woods was filmed in the driveway of my friend Kevin's sister's house)
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Oct 24, 2020 00:30
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Fartington Butts posted:The tuna can filled with ants is the thing that resonated with me the most. From the second she put it there after hearing a cat meowing to the point where she tried to retrieve/replace it. Most of the life outside of work plots were terrible on this show.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:54
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It's sad, but it sounds like it was more down to Fincher burning out on it rather than the usual Netflix poo poo-canning. I'm glad stepping back from it has given him space to work on some actual movies though, and I just hope we get a final season in a few years time. I felt a bit let down by season 2 at the time because it was such a left turn from the first one, but on reflection it was pretty fantastic in its own right.
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Oct 24, 2020 12:23
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Aww god damnit. Every time I fire up Netflix I check to see if the "it's official: another season's coming" tag has appeared on Mindhunter. The show had a really unique style and tempo, and I still haven't found another crime show that comes even close to matching it. God damnit all anyway.
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Oct 24, 2020 14:18
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Hey, if The Knick of all things can come back, anything's possible.
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Oct 24, 2020 14:47
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