Matrix Thread: actually it has very good politics and is good because the action sux

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Matrix Thread: actually it has very good politics and is good because the action sux

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

LinkesAuge posted:

But that also opens up another can of worms because the film clearly says that AIs are "real" and deserve to be treated as equals to humanity, not doing that was the whole reason why the Matrix exists in the first place. Is the argument now that there is a new "AI slave class"? So are these just dumb NPCs but still manage to be so perfect in their behaviour to fool real humans?
There are a lot of serious (bad) implications like you'd never know whether or not another AI is "real" if they can fake being "real" to that extent. That's why the whole "swarm npc"-angle is an obvious cop out because it doesn't resolve anything. You could have easily argued that agents like Smith in the first one are "just" programms who hunt humans but aren't deserving of being called sentient but then the sequels also blurred the line with "good programms" which we are told should be treated as equals and obviously are sentient.
But even if you accept that those NPCs weren't real then you have to ask if her feelings for them and her husband were real and the answers to that aren't really any better or create at least other issues/questions which could be interesting but the movie doesn't even want to explore so it is kind of wasted and more a distraction that can be read in a very negative way ("children are only there to enslave women"). So that subplot certainly lacked nuance and depth and felt like they wanted to give Trinity a hurdle she hat to overcome but they also didn't want to invest the time into her story to give it any depth and not make it this awkward (and why are we still doing the "stalking is love" trope in 2021?).

PS: The ending and the violence in that scene were also weird. I hate to use a "chud" argument but that scene would have been a huge yikes if a male protagonist would have acted this way or it is at least reserved for anti-heroes. They certainly wouldn't have used Neo to beat up a villain who isn't a threat at this point just out of revenge (even in this movie Neo is still very passive towards Smith despite everything he did to him).

moths posted:

I think there's some confusion in how the bots are presented - until "swarm mode" turns them into zombies they're equal to and indistinguishable from humans. They're capable of independent thought, and presumably love - yet they're less than human because the author tells us so.

That's, to me, a huge red flag that we're getting into some fash-adjacent poo poo.

Pretty much all of this. I get the subtext (that they are empty societal obligations tying her down to an identity she loathes), but the broader text, for three movies, a spinoff, and several videogames...is that AI are real people, robots are real people, and their memories and personalities are real. To suddenly have NPC's who are fake and disposable with fake memories who turn into zombies feels very jarring. Smith assimilated people, but the movies had the courage to admit that they were still people being blown away.

Also it would have been funnier to have them in the background of several scenes silently horrified as their parent/spouse is driving over people with their coder BF.

# ¿ Jan 1, 2022 18:51

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 22:50

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

mobby_6kl posted:

So is this worth watching at all? It's obviously not great but then neither was Reloaded and I enjoyed it enough for the dumb fights and chase to make it not a complete waste of time.

It's an experience, there's things to like about it, and things that will make you cringe, and plenty to argue about if you're into that. It's less of a waste of time than a lot of forgettable 2021 films.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2022 22:32

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

That is clearly, overwhelmingly, obviously what the movie was going for.

However, like the movie points out: a major system of control applied to women is expectations around family. Which is true, so no matter how clearly the movie explains it people will get mad at the sins against motherhood she committed.

I mean, thats true, but usually the answer isn't "your children aren't real", and the prior four movies go out of their way to assert that there are no zombies; the AI are people, the squids are people, the jacked smiths are people, the people are people, the matrix is real in its own way. So making them fake zombies feels like a pulled punch from a director that has been pretty content with having their action heroes murder real people in the past.

It would have been more in-line with the series & given the decision to abandon them for Neo more weight, in-my-opinion, if they were just unfortunate victims of these familial expectations rather than terminators.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2022 13:21

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

I don't personally have any qualms with the message, or rejecting the societal obligations that guilt us into conforming to roles we are not suited for, FWIW.

My issue is largely that I think this metaphor could have been cleaned up in a way that would make it more closely mirror real-life; somewhat genuine question, how many transgendered individuals cut off all ties with their children after transitioning, as is displayed here when the children turn out to be malicious fake robots holding Trinity back from their true identity? What, exactly, is gained and what is lost by making them [and the swarm in general, honestly] mindless fake people?

I'm not entirely sure myself, need to chew on it more, but I cant help but feel like there was a cleaner way to execute this that didn't cause friction with some of the recurring themes of the past four movies. I don't need a scene where Trinity comes back and throws red pills at the tykes, I just dont really vibe with the swarm concept.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2022 18:01

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

The NPC meme is now a part of The Matrix

# ¿ Jan 19, 2022 18:06

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 22:50

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

How does "the matrix/machines are capitalism and exploiting the humans" (or whatever the current discussion is on) gel with The Second Rennaissance? Obviously thats not a concern when just talking about the first film, but I am interested in this reading of the larger series that incorporates the fact that the machines were almost comically diplomatic towards mankind (transitioning from legal challenge, to direct action, to ethnostate with Dengist characteristics, then to war after a blockade & nuclear bombardment).

# ¿ Feb 7, 2022 16:50

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Matrix Thread: actually it has very good politics and is good because the action sux