|
Super Jay Mann posted:EL manages to somehow have the worst of both worlds of stacks and 1UPT which is why I really hope they figured out how to make it work in this new game. Cause I am not filled with confidence right now. EL's issue lies more in the AI (both the strategic and the tactical) and how powerful ranged units are. The way armies are handled there is perfectly fine and completely avoids Civ 5/6's carpet of doom and tedium. I still feel the only issue with Civ 4's stacks was how they could take a long while to break, even if you had bombarded them to minimal strength, but that also felt like something they could have solved in a better way (like having units fight until they retreat, getting new enemy units swapped in as long as they win). The visual identification being a bit hazy is another thing but that's pretty minor. Regardless, here we are 9 years after Civ 5's release and the AI still doesn't understand that ranged units will gently caress it up.
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 07:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 06:16 |
|
|
Super Jay Mann posted:You pretty much described Europa Universalis's combat system almost down to a T. I decided to look that up and yeah, I suppose it is! God I do hate the graphics in EU though. I think I would be a sucker for Paradox games if only the graphics weren't so awful.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 08:10
|
|
|
Tree Bucket posted:I usually really enjoyed the 1UPT battles in Civ 5/6; but I bailed on the majority of my games at the thought of the thousands of clicks required to move a late-game army to the other side of the map. I really wish units travelled in something called a march or a convoy that could be infinitely stacked and moved super quick, but unpacked into 1UPT mode to actually fight.  Moving a carpet of units is awful. Makes me miss transport ships, at least it let you move a whole bunch of units as one That Warhammer civ-like as land transport units which are a bless late game. Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Aug 26, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 12:14
|
|
|
JeremoudCorbynejad posted:I decided to look that up and yeah, I suppose it is! Really?! I feel like they're really good and functional although EU4 for me didn't look as nice as EU2 (hence my custom title)
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 12:23
|
|
|
I was going to say I can’t believe someone was upset enough at someone else liking the EU2 aesthetic but then I caught myself
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 15:11
|
|
|
Another thing I read: It's first come first serve when it comes to picking your culture in each age. No duplicates. So you won't be able to "solve" the best combination and pick it every game unless you are also the fist to advance in each age. That's probably also why they have a neolithic age: won't be able to choose the same starting culture every game unless you settle first.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2019 00:36
|
|
|
The Human Crouton posted:Another thing I read: It's first come first serve when it comes to picking your culture in each age. No duplicates. So you won't be able to "solve" the best combination and pick it every game unless you are also the fist to advance in each age. That's probably also why they have a neolithic age: won't be able to choose the same starting culture every game unless you settle first. i'm not sure if i like this, it makes technology even more important so you can get first pick
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2019 00:46
|
|
|
Brother Entropy posted:i'm not sure if i like this, it makes technology even more important so you can get first pick I don't think technology decides how you advance ages. I think fame does that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2019 00:58
|
|
|
Hopefully that doesn’t totally kill the gimmick build of picking China repeatedly for every new age.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2019 19:07
|
|
|
I saw an article that mentioned that you can choose not to add another culture after your starting one. It said it's effectively handicapping yourself to get a bigger fame score.
Kassad fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Aug 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2019 22:35
|
|
|
      Sounds great to me. Can't wait.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2019 22:45
|
|
|
I'm really just excited for more FlyByNo music.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2019 22:46
|
|
|
The Human Crouton posted:Another thing I read: It's first come first serve when it comes to picking your culture in each age. No duplicates. So you won't be able to "solve" the best combination and pick it every game unless you are also the fist to advance in each age. That's probably also why they have a neolithic age: won't be able to choose the same starting culture every game unless you settle first. Being consistently ahead of the AI is not an uncommon occurrence in 4Xs, so I wouldn't be surprised if getting the perfect combo is more common than you're implying. And if synergies are strong enough that chain-comboing culture picks is a prize to shoot for, that's going to be another way to snowball... Neolithic sounds like a cool idea, though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2019 22:50
|
|
|
thats not the vitruvian man at all!
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2019 23:21
|
|
|
This sounds great. The idea of skipping an era's worth of upgrades to soak up more Fame is a really excellent way of depicting the historical pattern of big, successful empires stagnating. (Like our buddies the Romans, whose sole technological innovation for three centuries (after establishing their empire) was to stick an extra bit of metal on the front of their helmets. I like how the French-ness of the devs shines through, too- civ, after all, reflects the historically anomalous American story of Number Going Up forever.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 03:58
|
|
|
I really like the sort of unified win condition in the Fame stars, all focused around being a civilization that people remember forever. That's so much more compelling to me than Civilization's distinct win conditions. What really sold me on it was the example in the article about grabbing a bunch of Fame stars in the mid-game and letting your empire dwindle in the endgame, knowing that your accomplishments will be remembered--and having that be a totally valid strategy to win a game. That's an evocative idea if they can pull it off.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 04:37
|
|
|
Color me very interested. I've always wanted a Civ that was way more based around actually building your goddamn empire instead of watching numbers go up and being pushed into nonstop wars of conquest, and the general aesthetics of Civ 5 and 6 (and the mechanics of 6, boy) were a huge turn off, so being able to actually watch your empire change as it grows is something I've very eagerly wanted for awhile now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 07:29
|
|
|
I'm curious how moddable it will be. I want mods adding every culture that ever existed in history.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 08:42
|
|
|
I really hope to see some significant difference in game mechanics between cultures. It would be such a shame to throw away all the awesome game-altering quirks of the Endless factions and take a "new unit, new building, new bonus" sort of approach.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 10:24
|
|
|
I don't know why, but Endless series never grabbed me in the same way Civ does. Hope this one turns out great.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 11:34
|
|
|
Ok, it's clear now that the Fame system is way more than just Score and the way it's described in that article sounds amazing, I can't wait to see it play out - especially in multiplayer. Interesting that it's going to be the only win condition, that's a huge difference to Civ. But i'm absolutely in love with the Fame mechanic as it's been described so far. I actually really like Civ's varied victory conditions (in 5, anyway) but it's never been easy to balance in a way that ensures the science, culture and diplomatic victories all become viable together in the end game. Usually - for the human player at least - one victory becomes viable way before the others do. Amplitude are gonna dodge that minefield altogether. e: it reminds me of those "point salad" boardgames where you can collect a bunch of points from some weird mechanic in the middle of the game, add them to your pile and then smugly sit back while everyone else scrambles to keep up
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 13:20
|
|
|
I think Fame sort of works as a varied win condition because you can gain it through different ways that (from what I can tell) might be similar to the things you do to win games of Civ. The difference is that it's not all down to who hits their endgame goal first and also you're not necessarily locked into just one method of gaining Fame. I like that a lot.singateco posted:I don't know why, but Endless series never grabbed me in the same way Civ does. Hope this one turns out great. For me, I think it's just that I find 4x games more immediately interesting if they're themed after human history. Even though there's nothing even remotely realistic about Civ, there's an added layer of fun for me when things have themes based on real-world cultures and world wonders and stuff like that. Not too sure why, but that's why I haven't really been grabbed by Endless Legend, I think. Though reading about Humanity definitely has me wanting to give Endless Legend another try, so maybe I'll reinstall it and take another run at it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 13:36
|
|
|
fame is definitely selling me on this harder. one of the things that i got tired of in civ is the constant overhang of 'well what victory should i be going for? am i wasting time by doing [x] if i don't go for that victory condition later?' it made games feel more formulaic and less about reacting to the world around you
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 13:57
|
|
|
Turn based with hot seat? Yes?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 14:00
|
|
|
As previously stated, Fame seems similar to Culture in Through the Ages. This is a good thing, because despite only using cards without a board, Through the Ages is a much better game than any recent iteration of the Civ series.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 14:00
|
|
|
There's a fun mod for Civ 5 that disables the Science, Culture and Diplomatic victories and then re-enables one - only one - at random in the atomic era. It forces you to be mindful of each victory, invest into all three, and make sure you can pivot when the time comes. I enjoy it anyway.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 14:05
|
|
|
JeremoudCorbynejad posted:There's a fun mod for Civ 5 that disables the Science, Culture and Diplomatic victories and then re-enables one - only one - at random in the atomic era. lmao, that sounds pretty great actually
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 15:37
|
|
|
Brother Entropy posted:fame is definitely selling me on this harder. one of the things that i got tired of in civ is the constant overhang of 'well what victory should i be going for? am i wasting time by doing [x] if i don't go for that victory condition later?' it made games feel more formulaic and less about reacting to the world around you A modular victory condition does seem like an interesting take for a 4x game, and I've seen the idea floated around for Civ before. So, rather than being the end goal for a scientific victory, getting into space and colonizing another planet would just be a large fame boost at the end. It might also unlock the possibility of colonies and splintering civs, since losing a large chunk of your territory would normally be cause to restart, but a modular victory would allow for the possibility of recovery. Plus there could be a system of cultural influence where former territories are still under your influence and give you a culture boost.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 16:23
|
|
|
Psyched for this game, but I wonder how this will work with getting a feeling for other civilizations around you. Like, in Civ, the Blue Player to my west is India, led by Ghandi, and I kinda know they'll be puttering around with culture and fairly peaceful. The Green Player to my east are the Aztecs, led by Montazuma, and I know I should probably reinforce that border. In this game the Blue Player is the uh... Egypto-Roman-Incan-Franco-Chinese, and the Green Player is the Babylonian-Celtic-Arab-Korean-Germans.  I wonder if there will be some sort of Great Leader figure to give different countries some form of personality/predictablity/prefered cultures to grab? Like, if Etruscan Caesar is next door, you know he's going to be aggressive across the course of the game and that he's going to try to grab the Romans next era, and the Byzantines and Italians later, so if you want those cultures you better beat him to the next era?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 16:27
|
|
|
"In a way, all the countries that exist today are from that melting pot of history." 
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 18:07
|
|
|
The way Fame seems to work also helps stop the Civ problem of the game growing increasingly dumb and unrealistic with regards to culture or religion, like an entire culture is just going to decide "let's just ignore religion and never make any art at all, ever."
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 21:01
|
|
|
I only have two concerns so far. They are both pretty small though. The first is the way your nation changes cultures throughout the game. I think it will be great for any individual game, but I have my doubts how it will hold up as a set of iterative games. Sometimes I choose a faction in Civ or EL because I feel like playing the science aspect of the game, or trade, or war. The way Humankind is set up seems like one won't really be able to do that. Maybe the game is so much fun in ways I can't anticipate that I won't miss choosing a faction to experience a specific part of the game. Fintilgin posted:Psyched for this game, but I wonder how this will work with getting a feeling for other civilizations around you. This is my other concern. Who am I fighting against, exactly? Am I going to have a game long competitoin against Blue? When Blue changes its culture am I still enemies with Blue, or do I recognize that Blue likes painting more than raping now?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 22:46
|
|
|
Yep, these sound like the two big issues. Particularly coming after EL/ES with their big focus on highly distinct factions.Kassad posted:I'm curious how moddable it will be. I want mods adding every culture that ever existed in history. It's basically infinitely expandable. Plus it side-steps that whole issue of "what bonuses should Canada have in the Bronze Age?" Also while we're writing wish lists, I'd like to see the ability to grant independence to an outlying region/colony, starting a new nation- and you, as their founder, get a small fraction of the Fame they earn for the next era or two. So you'd have a stake in looking after your colony buddies (and raiding your rivals' colonies.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2019 23:59
|
|
|
The Human Crouton posted:I only have two concerns so far. They are both pretty small though. yeah that part seems like it'll loving suck and I don't really know why they're going this route, particularly with a "historical" game this isn't civ religion where it's a nice bonus, this is who I am playing. if I wanted a france game I don't want to have to end up with the huns cuz I had a bad start or something
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2019 00:04
|
|
|
Gamerofthegame posted:yeah that part seems like it'll loving suck and I don't really know why they're going this route, particularly with a "historical" game Good thing you can just boot up Civilization to play just France! One of the articles references Amplitude saying that they are free to try new ideas because they're not shackled to the legacy gameplay of Civilization. I admit, I'd love to play a version of Civilization with modern features free of the tyranny of 1UPT, but I'm hoping Firaxis makes that, not Amplitude.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2019 17:00
|
|
|
I'm super disappointed to see Amplitude going for a historically accurate setting. I'm a huge fan of theirs but might end up skipping this because I'm sick of playing games about history. World building is what they're best at so this feels like Michael Jordan retiring from basketball. I mean I get that they're mixing it up but... I don't want to play another strategy game about human cultures on Earth. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Aug 30, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2019 18:39
|
|
|
They made the right decision though
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2019 19:03
|
|
|
While historical games are a waste of their worldbuilding talent, I'm happy that Civ seems to be getting actual competition to help push for a better game. I like the districts that were seemingly inspired by endless legend, for example. Hell, I'd be excited for Civ 6, with better AI and world congress mechanics, so I'm looking forward to seeing if and how Amplitude can improve the genre.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2019 19:22
|
|
|
I'm not sure I like this "Fame makes it possible to win the game in any age!" thing they're talking about. Sounds very game-able, and not in a good way.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2019 22:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 06:16 |
|
|
Cythereal posted:I'm not sure I like this "Fame makes it possible to win the game in any age!" thing they're talking about. Sounds very game-able, and not in a good way. but on the upside, if fame is initially janky but there are some quick easy fixes it won't take months for it to get patched
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2019 23:19
|
|