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Vengarr posted:There has never been a good Espionage system. But I thought ES2s was "okay". At least the AI could use it. EU4 and both Crusader Kings have always had good espionage systems.
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Sep 7, 2022 17:18
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AnEdgelord posted:EU4 and both Crusader Kings have always had good espionage systems. What's espionage like in EU4?
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Sep 7, 2022 17:23
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LLSix posted:What's espionage like in EU4? Not much, what's espionage with eu? (You set a diplomat to build up a spy network in x, when it hits certain levels if you have the right technology you can forment rebellion, steal maps, etc.)
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Sep 7, 2022 17:31
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I believe Master of Orion 2 had a perfect espionage system. You build some spies and send them do stuff. There's a chance something good or bad happens. They can also do counterintelligence. The spycraft is a thing that thematically doesn't work well with clear chances and plans. It's ok in EU4 but it's like an stable investment. ES2 espionage was bad cause you had no choice not to engage it. UI wouldn't let you alone unless you set up crack and crack defense or whatever it's called. In ES2 you can play as an empire with no fleet, or with no colonies or armies or trade - but drat you if we let you not to do spy stuff. Humankind sounds like EL or MoO2. It's an opportunity cost. Maybe spy stuff is very useful but it draws resources you could spend elsewhere and thus using it or not is a choice unlike espionage in ES2 or dumb pearls in EL.
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Sep 7, 2022 18:02
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I wonder if this means they're going to change the required star numbers to advance or if they're going to make some of them easier. Since adding a new type of culture basically necessitates needing a new set of stars.
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Sep 7, 2022 19:10
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Civ VI had a pretty solid offensive spy system based on districts but the defensive system where a spy can only defend a single hex and its six neighbors was terrible. Especially because you couldn’t just choose any center tile just ones with districts so if your industrial zone and commercial district are separated by a farm you’re out of luck. Otherwise is was pretty good. Spies got better, policies could super boost your spy game (at the expense of other powerful economic or military bonuses), and getting caught would often get you denounced and really impact relations. Plus you could even do spy swaps!
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Sep 7, 2022 19:21
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they aint ever getting their spy back in 6 because they have a spy cap that it counts against
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Sep 7, 2022 19:26
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Veryslightlymad posted:I wonder if this means they're going to change the required star numbers to advance or if they're going to make some of them easier. Since adding a new type of culture basically necessitates needing a new set of stars. Yes, there are diplomatic stars based on how much Leverage (new diplomatic currency) you get. Tom Tucker posted:Otherwise is was pretty good. It's not bad but it has issues similar to many other systems in Civ6: it feels like it was added by a mod. The UI is nothing like anything else in the game (trade or governor change city screen is completely different) and there's more complexity in it than value you can get out of it. Maybe I just didn't have a chance to use it right.
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Sep 7, 2022 19:31
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I liked the system in uh...... Distant Worlds. Or rather, the shell of the idea. It seems like if it were elaborated on, that would be the system that I most liked. Spies in 4x games have basically always been garbage.
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Sep 7, 2022 19:42
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ilitarist posted:Yes, there are diplomatic stars based on how much Leverage (new diplomatic currency) you get. I know. But what I mean is, since there are more stars, does that mean that players will require more to advance, since there is a whole new category available.
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Sep 7, 2022 19:43
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i like the spys in stellaris but admit they ain't great aint no point in doing the starbase sabotage ever
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Sep 7, 2022 19:44
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Wait, Stellaris has spies?! When were those added?
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Sep 7, 2022 19:47
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I think it was the nemesis expansion that added it
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Sep 7, 2022 19:54
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Veryslightlymad posted:Wait, Stellaris has spies?! When were those added? You can now task your envoys to spy stuff. It works basically the same as assigning a diplomat to building a covert network in EU4
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Sep 7, 2022 19:58
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I like spies in Stellaris as well but never really use any of the missions. I just like having to build up intel on someone to know much about them if I don’t have other diplomatic agreements that give me intel.
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Sep 7, 2022 20:08
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Veryslightlymad posted:I know. But what I mean is, since there are more stars, does that mean that players will require more to advance, since there is a whole new category available. Don't think so. It sounds like this leverage thing is something you have to actively engage with so it will probably come at cost of some other stars. Even if it affects balance it's more likely they make other stars a little bit more costly rather then make you earn more stars.
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Sep 7, 2022 20:09
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Anno posted:I like spies in Stellaris as well but never really use any of the missions. I just like having to build up intel on someone to know much about them if I don’t have other diplomatic agreements that give me intel. I try to also break as many alliances as I can but that missions results ain't to strong Sabotage Starbases just destroying a single module and it can't hit shipyards is less than worthless World Famous W fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Sep 7, 2022 |
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Sep 7, 2022 20:13
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World Famous W posted:I use the poo poo out of steal tech I did more before the actions started requiring influence to run. Now I just find I have other, better uses for that influence (usually vassal related).
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Sep 7, 2022 20:29
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ilitarist posted:Don't think so. It sounds like this leverage thing is something you have to actively engage with so it will probably come at cost of some other stars. Ugh. They'll be harder to get though, since you will be spending resources on another system.. I just want the influence stars to be discounted. I don't know if I every got 3 in anything but the final era.
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Sep 7, 2022 20:57
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I've loaded this up a couple times recently but the base AI personalities just loving suck, they just come across as random Apple commercial shitheads. I tried to sign up for the lovely G2G thing to download some but it didn't like my email. Still no map option for an Earth-like continent distribution either. It's a bummer.
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Sep 8, 2022 00:18
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Tom Tucker posted:Civ VI had a pretty solid offensive spy system based on districts but the defensive system where a spy can only defend a single hex and its six neighbors was terrible. Especially because you couldn’t just choose any center tile just ones with districts so if your industrial zone and commercial district are separated by a farm you’re out of luck. Dumbest change in Espionage for Civ 6 was when they made it so you can't spy on allies. MY IMMERSION
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Sep 8, 2022 01:11
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Tom Tucker posted:Civ VI had a pretty solid offensive spy system based on districts but the defensive system where a spy can only defend a single hex and its six neighbors was terrible. Especially because you couldn’t just choose any center tile just ones with districts so if your industrial zone and commercial district are separated by a farm you’re out of luck. Attacking with spies was a really fun system. Problem was, I almost never used those abilities because I always ended up having to park my spies on defensive duty. It's no fun when your industrial zones blow up or your neighbourhoods sprout three mech infantry
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Sep 8, 2022 02:12
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Veryslightlymad posted:Ugh. They'll be harder to get though, since you will be spending resources on another system.. Mind the city cap! Getting the aesthete stars with the 100% fame bonus is a big part of how I keep up at the higher difficulty levels.
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Sep 8, 2022 08:02
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Tree Bucket posted:Attacking with spies was a really fun system. Problem was, I almost never used those abilities because I always ended up having to park my spies on defensive duty. It's no fun when your industrial zones blow up or your neighbourhoods sprout three mech infantry That’s true but you do have the option of going full police state with policies shutting down spy levels in your territory and making it super hard to do anything, but the opportunity cost is super high when that’s ~2 policy slots. If you’ve got a nice open empire with lots of enemies it makes sense your spy network is out playing whack a mole. The issue is again the drat hex system. “Sorry I couldn’t follow that enemy agent to the Spaceport where he blew up our Mars mission I’m assigned to North WEST Bananaland where the commercial zone is just fine fyi.”
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Sep 8, 2022 14:59
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Excited by the expansion mentioning new music! Love the poo poo that's already out. What is it about 4x games and legendary soundtracks?
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Sep 8, 2022 18:45
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drat that’s so true. Still nothing topping Civ IV though.
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Sep 8, 2022 21:51
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Tom Tucker posted:drat that’s so true. Still nothing topping Civ IV though. I was thinking the same thing. The industrial and modern ages specifically were so good, I’ll just listen to them on YouTube still sometimes
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Sep 8, 2022 23:45
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Ainsley McTree posted:I was thinking the same thing. The industrial and modern ages specifically were so good, I’ll just listen to them on YouTube still sometimes Using John Adams to represent the modern age was the perfect choice Dayton Sports Bar fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Sep 9, 2022 |
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Sep 9, 2022 00:10
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I don't think anything will beat Civ VI's soundtrack for me. Only 1 or 2 of the however many Civ don't have bangers, imo.
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Sep 9, 2022 00:25
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love 6s expect when Australia is on the field and I hear waltzing Matilda forever
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Sep 9, 2022 00:31
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Oh yeah Civ 6’s soundtrack is exceptional. Civ 4 sort of did the evolving cultural themes thing but it was pretty basic compared to 6. Hearing the atomic age themes towards the end always makes me feel things.
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Sep 9, 2022 05:10
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When I play Humankind, I usually mute the soundtrack and play classical music in the background. The music starts to feel too repetitive to me.
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Sep 18, 2022 19:52
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Don’t forget the oft-maligned announcer. I’m building an entire civilization from scratch and steering the course of history I don’t want snarky sarcasm. We thought the quote choices were bad in civ 6. (They are though)
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Sep 21, 2022 06:49
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It doesn't get as bad as Civ6 (a true diplomat always knows a woman's birthday, but... Wait for it... Never knows her age! Get it?) But in Civ6 those quotes are relegated to special places while the Humankind dude never shuts up. So glad you can turn him off. Don't know what were they thinking.
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Sep 21, 2022 07:29
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I don't mind the sarcastic narrator. I hate it when the Civ VI narrator just shits on whatever technology you just discovered.
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Sep 21, 2022 08:16
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Congrats on your grand accomplishment Ruhr Valley, your industry sucks and you should just shut it all down -Civ VI
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Sep 21, 2022 08:28
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What I really want from Humankind DLC is for climate change and nuclear winter to be real possibilities. Not every game, but if I screw up and make the world uninhabitable, I don't want to just see a game over screen. Let the player try to save his cities for as long as possible when the oceans are dead and farms only produce half as much food as before.
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Sep 21, 2022 08:47
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The issue with that is that Humankind has been really balanced around the whole of history. To pull off what you describe Civ6 has shifted heavily into modern and future eras. It feels very wrong to me that everything before the steam engine is just a prelude (combined with the snowballing nature of the game it also means that you can do all the wars you need in that prelude).
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Sep 21, 2022 08:57
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I feel the opposite that you do. Games of Civilization are generally decided by the time players have finished settling their cities. Anything that happens after the year 1 AD is unlikely to affect the outcome of the game. Humankind does a much better job, but it still feels like one player can snowball to victory by the late game, and more chaos and challenge would alleviate that problem.
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Sep 21, 2022 09:07
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...How is this opposite? My point is that I want to play a game inspired by historical stuff, and most of history happened before 1900 (I've learned some history, I know), but in Civ6 it feels like most of the game happens in a modern era. I don't mean it's *decided* there, I mean a number of turns and time you spend in later eras - in the late game you have more cities and units and spies and stuff, so it takes a lot more time. So to shoehorn more obvious climate change into the game you have to extend the later eras even more and I'm not a fan of the idea.
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Sep 21, 2022 09:19
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