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Looking good! Based on EL and ES2, I guess we can expect: -a lot of expansions later with new mechanics -factions with very different play styles -slightly tedious equipment slot management for units... -a sliding scale of conflict, rather than "at war/not at war" I remember buying EL on a whim and having the awesome experience of slowly discovering that this slightly weird fantasy 4X was actually an extremely weird sci-fi 4X. And then moving from Civ 5- where colonisation is punished and penalised through every game mechanic- on to ES2 where you can shoot out colonists all day long, resulting in complex economic/diplomatic/military situations where multiple empires want a slice of one star system... The one thing I'm worried about is the battle system- I hope they work out a way for legions next to musketmen to not look kind of dumb. And while EL's magic and ranged combat was beautiful, its melee combat felt sort of lacking- I wanted massive battle lines crashing into each other, and instead you get 3 guys standing next to 4 guys [small pause] 2 guys fall over.
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Aug 24, 2019 02:09
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I usually really enjoyed the 1UPT battles in Civ 5/6; but I bailed on the majority of my games at the thought of the thousands of clicks required to move a late-game army to the other side of the map. I really wish units travelled in something called a march or a convoy that could be infinitely stacked and moved super quick, but unpacked into 1UPT mode to actually fight.KOGAHAZAN!! posted:I've been tooling around with ideas to "fix" Civ VI's combat for a while now. It goes like this: If nothing else, they'd be really solid board game rules.
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Aug 26, 2019 02:32
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This sounds great. The idea of skipping an era's worth of upgrades to soak up more Fame is a really excellent way of depicting the historical pattern of big, successful empires stagnating. (Like our buddies the Romans, whose sole technological innovation for three centuries (after establishing their empire) was to stick an extra bit of metal on the front of their helmets. I like how the French-ness of the devs shines through, too- civ, after all, reflects the historically anomalous American story of Number Going Up forever.
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Aug 29, 2019 03:58
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Yep, these sound like the two big issues. Particularly coming after EL/ES with their big focus on highly distinct factions.Kassad posted:I'm curious how moddable it will be. I want mods adding every culture that ever existed in history. It's basically infinitely expandable. Plus it side-steps that whole issue of "what bonuses should Canada have in the Bronze Age?" Also while we're writing wish lists, I'd like to see the ability to grant independence to an outlying region/colony, starting a new nation- and you, as their founder, get a small fraction of the Fame they earn for the next era or two. So you'd have a stake in looking after your colony buddies (and raiding your rivals' colonies.)
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Aug 29, 2019 23:59
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Having seen the last few posts-- well,aside from "I hope thisd I'd less.svhiy than can't v 6"-- it's been interesting seeing the breadth of play styles that 4X games need to appeal to. I feel like there's a sort of triangular spectrum thing with pure role-play at one corner, pure sandboxery at the other, and pure number-crunching puzzle-solving at the third. I tend towards the RP corner, so the world-building lore stuff matters a lot to me, while the optimal number-crunching is a nice addition if it "fits" with the story in my head.
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Aug 31, 2019 10:23
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The art looks to be as gorgeous as ever. I'll miss all the crazy landforms from EL, though.KOGAHAZAN!! posted:I guess the Shang are just a bunch of question marks and turtle bones, though. I really like this sentence, but I'm not sure why.
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Feb 6, 2020 03:13
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That's always been the dilemma for 4X games. Civ6 took a step in the right direction with climate change eating chunks of the map, but they needed to take quite a few more steps after that...
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Feb 8, 2020 01:07
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Gort posted:On the other hand, stuff like science, religious and tourist victories tend to just be buckets you have to fill up that don't give you much in the way of bonuses to elevate your game position. Like if religious or cultural domination meant countries couldn't declare war on you and had to join your wars, it would make sense that dominating everyone meant you won the game, since you become untouchable. But those victory conditions don't give you that - it's quite possible to go from a game position that's quite precarious to, "You won!" in the space of a turn, which I agree is jarring. It's interesting seeing the Civ games grapple with this. Science victory is a bucket-filling exercise. Religious victory was in 6; it had a very basic "theological combat" model that I'm pretty sure everyone found incredibly tedious. Culture victory in 5 was probably the best; aside from the great work theming stuff, diplomatic blocs, happiness levels and assimilation speed were hugely affected by culture and tourism, and there was that whole custom ideology-building aspect too. Sadly the whole system was really let down by structural problems with Happiness and how the AI failed to interact with it properly. Meanwhile ES2's academy quest feels like an awkward sort of compromise. On the one hand it forces the entire galaxy into one of two blocs- which would make an excellent end-game sort of war- but the blocs are pretty much random and exist independently of regular diplomacy. A real wasted opportunity, I think.
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Feb 10, 2020 00:59
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Civ is a simulation; it just simulates about half a dozen different scales simultaneously. One game contains all of history's tech development, a couple of centuries worth of political manoeuvring, a few battles' worth of tactical shenanigans, all represented through a continents' worth of nations represented by rulers who generally reigned for a few decades. On a map where, early in the game, it takes you centuries to walk from one end of Italy to the other. The game lets you know this is a thing by having soldiers tower over cities and trees nearly as big as mountains- but it still works, somehow!
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Feb 10, 2020 21:04
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Oh, absolutely. It felt really disappointing that Civ 5 had that really interesting intertwined ideology-happiness-culture system, which the AI totally ignored. I always wanted to see bloated AI empires disintegrating under their own weight- it would have been so much fun to engineer!- but it never really happened.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:44
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I'm beginning to think that the standard tech company solution is the way to go: don't worry about developing game AI; just have some genius dude in India play the enemy for a few dollars an hour.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:49
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Yeah, Civ4 is still really, really good, and I still love its civics system. Also ach era feels really different- classical has its logic puzzle unit interactions, medieval sees longbows and walls making expansion really difficult, and then renaissance arrives and suddenly you can cross oceans and get a big burst of new science and civics. It has a great arc, and all the classical music sells it beautifully. Civ5's main flaw (I'm only half joking here) is the various sad discordant drones used for the background "currently at war" music. When I'm sending my cartoon mans to blow up other cartoon mans, I don't really want to hear the soundtrack from a documentary about war crimes.
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Feb 29, 2020 06:35
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I don't know what their social media team is doing. I remember the leadup to Civ 5 and 6 being released, and the drip feed of info on how the games played was great fun. It's hard to care that a faction is Expansionist or Agrarian when we don't know what any of that stuff actually means- give us clues to piece together, guys!
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May 26, 2020 06:48
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Roadie posted:EU4's system is opaque as hell, though. To understand it at all you have to go outside of the game to read a bunch of wiki articles. Is my stack likely to win against his stack? I have no idea! I have to go digging around in nation info to see what idea sets he has and then reverse-engineer stats to figure it out. The really authentic leader-of-a-nation simulator
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May 29, 2020 07:14
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Is there a general 4X thread because that would be good. That would be pretty cool. Particularly when it comes to some of these weird smaller games that can't really sustain their own thread. On a similar note, I would absolutely love to make even a dead basic 4X, but suck at programming. (Unless you count boardgames?)
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Jun 17, 2020 10:27
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One positive aspect of war in Civ 6, at least, was the move away from war being solely about conquest. Raiding is a lot more important with the district system. (Still a really, really imperfect system, but I dislike war boiling down to CITY CONQUERED=Y/N) As for the front system- I think that'd be excellent for wars in industrialised societies. I mean, a million times better than the stack/carpet of doom. Oddly enough, I feel like Mount and Blade: Bannerlord does a pretty good job of being a pre-industrial strategy game. Where are your allies? Where are your other armies? Where is the enemy? No one knows!!! Oh no we're out of grain, can we still eat our horses?
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Jun 20, 2020 13:06
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My favoured solution is huge discounts to research times based on the number of (neighbouring?) civs with that tech, combined with fun small first-to-discover bonuses to make the race still worthwhile.
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Jul 6, 2020 14:05
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Deltasquid posted:Haha I was thinking the same thing. Individualist vs collectivist debates for pages upon pages. Maybe that's intentional, to create an extra bit of long-term continuity. You can't plan on which sequence of civs you'll play, but you can choose to go for a collective globalist game or whatever.
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Jul 15, 2020 00:28
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Gort posted:Yeah, a layman saying "modern" probably means something that happened in the last couple of decades, while a historian talking about "modern history" could be talking about something from 1492. "Istanbul or Constantinople?"
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Jul 27, 2020 11:39
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Dreylad posted:Byzantium. Byzantion!
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Jul 27, 2020 12:54
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webmeister posted:Bravely stolen from Reddit: I wish to know more of this "off-screen Frenchman"
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Jul 30, 2020 12:13
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That is a pretty tech tree.
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Jul 31, 2020 01:47
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Davincie posted:i got in and theres no nda Care to d anything, since there's no a saying you must n? Wait that sounds weird
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Aug 1, 2020 02:56
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Oh hey, I got in too. Scenario 1 doesn't seem to have any rival civs or barbarians or whatever; it's just Babylon and a scout unit. It's honestly a weird choice for first civ in that their special ability lets you learn a new tech basically every single turn, with the result that you end up staring at a huge and bewildering list of improvements that you'll never actually be able to build. Combat is limited to your scouts beating up some reindeer, which felt kind of weird. The map is beautiful to explore, which is good, because the random bonus thingies scattered around the map give really underwhelming bonuses that don't seem to interact with the quest/decision system at all. I was hoping to get a look at the political axes system that's been mentioned, but that doesn't seem to be part of this scenario. Pros: Pretty map. Excellent map gen- there's no "boring" stretches of useless continent. Yields are nice and juicy- buildings generally have effects like +5 Food rather than that tedious +1 stuff. OUTPOOOOOOSTS. Remember founding new cities in Civ 5, how the game actively hated you? How it'd take dozens of turns to build the settler, a dozen more to transport it, followed by 38 turns of building your first granary? Instead, Humankind has an Outpost system. Soldiers can spend a bit of cash to plonk an Outpost down in neutral territory. That's it, it's yours now! Then you can spend more money to have the outpost act as a little colony, extracting a specific resource, or you can pay a bit more to make it into a full city. I really, really like this system. Cons: The UI feels characterless and kind of confusing, but I always get that feeling when playing a 4X for the first time. Maybe it's actually fine and my brain is wrong. Battling reindeer feels kind of weird...
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Aug 1, 2020 05:14
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Is Persia vs Greece winnable? You can't bash your way through the hoplites or lure them onto lower ground, so there's no way to the flag...? Anyway, I sort of enjoyed the battles, but their battle UI needs a lot of work. My mouse shouldn't drag path icons around the map when the selected unit is fighting; and the little shield wall animations are excellent until the soldiers stand with their backs to the guys they've just attacked... e: okay, having looked online, it looks like the hex-side from which you begin the battle has a big effect on where the enemy starts deployed? Hmm. Tree Bucket fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 7, 2020 02:18
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appropriatemetaphor posted:What do the capture points do? Sat on the Paris one and nothing seemed to happen, grabbed the Persia one once and same thing. They might be reinforcement point flags, which the enemy gets even if they have no reinforcements
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Aug 8, 2020 00:37
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Ok, I'm sort of warming up to Humankind now. A lot of my dislike for the battles comes from the scenarios themselves- it's much easier to care about an army when you've built it and have plans for it and the map! Otherwise it all feels kind of pointless; I've never really liked war-only scenarios in the civ games either.webmeister posted:Update: managed to win the Korea/Japan scenario on the third try, though it was a technical victory. I managed to hang on for about 15 turns until finally I just had one samurai left, hiding in the forests on the right near the river. For whatever reason, the enemies all bugged out and stopped moving, so I hit End Turn five times in a row and won the battle That has to be the only way to do it. Those mortars are horrifying.
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Aug 9, 2020 04:14
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Ok, Hold the Fort is up. I like that they are really leaning into the Nonsense Alternate History thing with this one. Incidentally: when the little icon before a battle says your army is weaker overall, that isn't a glitch; it means that one sword unit you're attacking has another five buddies he can call up as reinforcements, and also your dudes are now dead.
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Aug 14, 2020 05:07
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webmeister posted:Yes, it's Ottohomme Otteauhomme, surely
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Aug 21, 2020 06:40
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L'Otteauhommes? Would that work?
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Aug 21, 2020 08:37
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Smells Like Byzanteen Spirit
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Aug 21, 2020 09:19
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The thinking emoji is nothing. One of the (I think) trading skill icons for Roving Clans in EL was a duck? Never worked that one out.
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Aug 29, 2020 13:10
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They were loyal early on, weren't they? Like, it took a few centuries for the Janissaries to become, um, emblematic for the wrong reasons...?
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Sep 9, 2020 14:17
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Rimusutera posted:The Janissaries were incredibly loyal to whoever they helped put in charge. "pre-emptive loyalty" Gort posted:Sure, but endings disproportionately affect people's impressions of things. The Hindenburg isn't famous for fourteen months of safe flights. It is a weird way of looking at things. Maybe their French background affects things?? I love how they classed medieval England not as traders or fighters but as "agrarian." When I think Henry V, I think of grains and legumes!
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Sep 10, 2020 03:10
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That's interesting- assigning units etc to present-day civs is going to be contentious.
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Sep 16, 2020 09:54
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I like this approach for Britain. I mean, I don't think Britain's ships were necessarily different to that of any other European great power. They just had a lot of them, and were really committed to using them well. But their colonial administration was something pretty unique- there are a whole lot of countries across the planet today whose external and internal borders were decided by various British folks drawing lines on maps a few centuries back. (On that note, my own state takes its name from a Yorkshireman deciding that a landscape of saltbush, golden beaches and ancient forests filled with parrots and large marsupials looked an awful lot like Wales. South Wales, in fact!)
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Sep 23, 2020 01:52
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Gort posted:Well, HMS Dreadnought made every other battleship in existence obsolete overnight, that probably counts. Fair enough! Does Humanity have everything from redcoats to dreadnoughts in the one era? Civ6 seperates them, I think
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Sep 23, 2020 11:25
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Det_no posted:That's weird. I thought this game was based on historical events. No, you're getting it confused with ES2. That's clearly a Riftborn icon next to the words "rate up."
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Sep 24, 2020 03:32
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Poil posted:We could have had pictures of elephants trampling the traitorous racist slave owners and burying them in dung? Gettysburg address delivered from atop an elephant
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Nov 11, 2020 21:11
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That was fun. I'm glad they've embraced the fundamental silliness of the Aztecs constructing the Eiffel Tower in London having captured it from the Zulu. I wonder if the game itself will lean into this a bit more; it all looks terribly serious so far.
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Dec 11, 2020 04:29
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