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Anno posted:I have like 150 hours in Civ VI and I don't think I've ever made a move in the game with the express purpose of "winning" over just making what I thought was the coolest empire or playing along with an AI. The game was actually quite a bit more interesting when you tried to play with the AI's personalities. I find these games to be pretty bad at being competitive strategy games but very good at just being a cool map sandbox to exist in. After you play some grand strategy games like Paradox Development or even later Total Wars those huge 4X games feel too simplistic to work as simulations. I can't help but look at them as competitive boardgames with a strong theme. Endless Space 2 was a fine deep game, but it had no detalization, granularity and breadth that you could compare with Stellaris. On the other hand, unlike Stellaris it had some actual interesting gameplay choice. But those were made moot by the fact that you don't need to understand half of the mechanics to win on max difficulty. I'm afraid Humankind falls in between those genres too: not big and complex and granular enough to be a simulation; and not having a good balance and AI to be an interesting boardgame.
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Aug 17, 2021 16:43
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UI is good. Looks beautiful. Music is nice but I kinda expected more from Amplitude in that regard AI doesn't seem to be brighr but at least on Empire difficulty (5 of 7) it expands and gets points and advances pretty fast. I don't ask for good AI, I ask for something that gives me a reason to be stressed in a game like this, so that's already better than ES2.
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Aug 17, 2021 21:31
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Yeah, this expansion phase has a lot of mysteries. What makes outposts vulnerable to cultural assimilation? What affects cost of a new outpost? Do curiosities appear again in places you've already explored? Are you supposed to get an additional bonus from getting all 3 stars in Neolitic era? Cause I got a bonus from the second one but not the third. Does murdering nomads bring any later diplomatic problems? Doesn't seem like it.
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Aug 17, 2021 22:08
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Tree Bucket posted:How does the "pick a new civ" thing feel when it comes to a sense of continuity? Like, if I have a long-running rivalry with the Romans, does that kind of carry across when they become Japan or whatever? Honestly it feels little more than Endless Space 2 party election thing. Every civ is labeled with affinity with a bonus exactly like ES2 party would bring (expansionists can ignore closed borders, scientific people can research into the next era etc) plus a building and a unit. The building is often strong but there are 6 eras in the game and you won't have a lot of time to build them. Units might require resource you don't even have. Special traits remain but they aren't that big, at least early on. To me it feels like I'm playing ES2 but there's only one faction in the game, but they have more powerful laws and mission bonuses.
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Aug 18, 2021 09:04
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Endless Legend had the same issues with the secretive map. Special tiles and resources were just a small glitter in the ground. Hard to distinguish from other objects like explorable temples or neutral villages. Once you've discovered a village you'd get a message with the info about this minor race. To see this info again you'd have to be in a position when you can assimilate this faction. Clicking the village icon has no effect. Humankind is much better in that regard.
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Aug 18, 2021 10:38
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victrix posted:You can claim a wonder you can't build, and you can't unclaim it Do I have to destroy the very memory of your civilization to be able to build it?
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Aug 18, 2021 10:39
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I always assumed borderless fullscreen means forced v-sync so this option is pointless. Here's a savage ending to PC Gamer Humankind review: "But now that Amplitude has made its Civilization, I really hope it goes back to making Alpha Centauris." https://www.pcgamer.com/humankind-review/
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Aug 18, 2021 11:00
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As the game evolves I discover I can't read that map. I look at the city and I can't understand which part is exploitation and which is a district. And how do you distinguish districts? Even when you build a new one and would like to see existing ones highlighted it's a mystery.
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Aug 19, 2021 00:03
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Perestroika posted:I do wish the other players were named by their avatar name rather than their current culture, or perhaps a combination of the two. It can be a bit annoying shortly after an era change to read "The English do this and that" and having to look up who the hell the English used to be and whether you should hate them. At the same time in the list other players are identified by their symbol and color. Even if you hover over them you won't know which one is Goth till you click.
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Aug 19, 2021 10:46
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I remember when I was a kid and played Civ1 and met Aztecs and Zulus. Then I was puzzled: I thought those colonized people were represented by barbarians. Who are those barbarians then? It's still an uneasy distinction in many historical strategy games. Civ5/6 at least uses city-states to represent multitude of people. But it still has those mysterious barbarians. From what I understand Humankind only has warlike... whatever they're called. City-states? It's certainly a better approach than having berserk hordes.
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Aug 19, 2021 14:40
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Your Computer posted:also i won a game on nation difficulty Does your choice of names in this forum and in this game suggests my computer is potato? I am confused.
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Aug 20, 2021 14:56
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Yeah, I like that about Amplitude's games. You hear the same about all of their games. They allow you to feel unlimited power.
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Aug 20, 2021 18:32
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Cheating AI is not a problem as long as it gives you challenge without limiting your strategies. Civ AI cheating is bad cause it gives them early settlers which is huge. Additional towns give exponential early advantage and make rush a dumb idea, thus affecting your strategies. Or if AI can, like, conjure resources so that you can't blockade them or raid to spoil their economy. If the AI gets stuff a little cheaper but is still limited by economy it's fine. It's emulating a better player.
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Aug 20, 2021 20:30
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fuf posted:It's interesting seeing people not really know how to refer to other civilisations, and how that does kind of suggest there's a problem with continuity and good story telling. It's interesting cause after ES2 I thought amplitude were the only 4X devs in a long time to remember MoO2 model of producing memorable opponents. You have, say, cat-people who have one important trait (great pilots) and semi-randomized personality, like expansionist and honorable. It's not like Civ complex affinities you'd never notice, it's quite clear distinction: expansive ones expand a lot, honorable people almost never break pacts and don't forget those who do, ecologists mantain the purity of their planets etc. ES2 did that but other races never put pressure on you so you only cared about the size of their fleet. Here Amplitude seem to do that again, AIs have some clear behavioral traits. But they themselves are so forgettable. Really the symbols are what I'd remember. I'm colorblind so I don't rely on colours but those avatars don't work for me at all. Even something like Age of Wonders 3 random generator gave me more interesting enemies with basically no AI differences.
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Aug 21, 2021 11:19
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Basic Anno 1800 doesn't cost so much. It has numerous expansions that you might get later, it's not like all of those games where not having expansions is like not having patches. After playing Humankind a little I've started the search for a land-based 4X that is not civ and ended up playing Fallen Enchantress Legendary Heroes. It is still being patched and it's fun. Too bad release circumstances had hidden it from public view. So if you're wondering what to play till magenta stops influencing all those neutral cities - try this. You can get it for cheap probably. Has cities where you can zoom in and watch people too.
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Aug 22, 2021 06:36
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Kchama posted:Don't go for Fallen Enchantress. Stardock is a pack of shithead IP thieves, and their CEO is the king shithead. Noted.
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Aug 22, 2021 14:13
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Tree Bucket posted:It's one of those issues like the zero strategics bug that really really really should have been picked up much earlier. This is probably a bug that appeared a couple of days before release and was a fix for some other bug, or a consequence of a change in map generator. It's not like it was there for half a year and no one noticed. Then again, this is why devs make gold version of the game some time before release, test it and release day 1 patch dealing with those obvious issues. Amplitude probably has a wild development workflow. Some bugs or design issues of EL and ES2 were sold after a huge delay or weren't solved at all. Like people asked for only unique factions option since ES1 and it was added to EL years after release.
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Aug 23, 2021 07:12
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Jinnigan posted:strictly comparing narrators: civ4 is TNG, alpha centauri is DS9, and humankind is Discovery No game is Discovery. Maybe Call to Power. But really if we're talking about the quotes Discovery does the same dumb meme quotes as Civ6. Spock saying "I like science" with a smug face is basically a reference to all those channels with "smart" memes which Civ6 is so fond of quoting. It seems like such a small thing but the whole message and mood of Civ6 is destroyed by those idiotic inappropriate jokes.
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Aug 23, 2021 07:23
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Previous time anyone tried to contend with Civ was Call to Power 1 & 2. Those games went far into the future. They weren't good though. Also Civ itself goes pretty far into the future, don't you think? It's just depressing cyberpunk but without cool implants future, and also everything is flooded.
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Aug 23, 2021 09:29
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Eimi posted:I am starting to loathe the simultaneous turns. It feels like a horrid micro/attention tax frustratingly biased in favor of the AI. I've been in many situations where I could've run away...if I had the micro of a god and could click on and move my unit. It doesn't really feel like it fits in a 4x game. If you need micro then you want to have 2 moves in row. Just don't micro, ever.
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Aug 25, 2021 06:22
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Baron Porkface posted:I'm playing my first game and in the industrial era 2 ai rivals have 8000 fame compared to my 4000. I've never missed a star, what gives? Do you mean you've never missed a single star per era? Huh. The game doesn't tell you that, but it's often a good idea to postpone era change until you have secured more stars than the game asks of you. It is very possible to rush till the last era and discover you don't have any good sources of fame anymore.
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Jul 4, 2022 15:08
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The narrator can and should be turned off in the options.
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Jul 4, 2022 16:00
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That's an interesting choice every time and I like the game for it. Obviously you always want some industry and food production, especially in your earlier cities, but later on you have much more freedom thanks to new cities coming with pre-built infrastructure.
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Jul 4, 2022 18:30
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Of course you can get away with anything on a lower difficulty level or if you're extremely cool. But this stuff happened to me, I was in a clear lead and killed most of the opponents, but one of the survivors has accumulated more fame cause they didn't rush. Rushing ages without earning at least your special star is risky unless you go for military victory
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Jul 6, 2022 07:19
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Sounds good. Amplitude has a habit of adding new, usually optional, paths to victory with expansions. They've added some kind of espionage system to both Endless Legend and Endless Space 2. In ES2 they've made it necessary to use for *everybody* and it was bad and annoying, while in EL they made it just another path to dominance that is most useful to the new faction added in the expansion. Hope Humankind goes the second path and doesn't make this new mechanic something I'd want out of the game. Sadly too often their expansions made the game worse.
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Sep 7, 2022 15:19
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I believe Master of Orion 2 had a perfect espionage system. You build some spies and send them do stuff. There's a chance something good or bad happens. They can also do counterintelligence. The spycraft is a thing that thematically doesn't work well with clear chances and plans. It's ok in EU4 but it's like an stable investment. ES2 espionage was bad cause you had no choice not to engage it. UI wouldn't let you alone unless you set up crack and crack defense or whatever it's called. In ES2 you can play as an empire with no fleet, or with no colonies or armies or trade - but drat you if we let you not to do spy stuff. Humankind sounds like EL or MoO2. It's an opportunity cost. Maybe spy stuff is very useful but it draws resources you could spend elsewhere and thus using it or not is a choice unlike espionage in ES2 or dumb pearls in EL.
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Sep 7, 2022 18:02
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Veryslightlymad posted:I wonder if this means they're going to change the required star numbers to advance or if they're going to make some of them easier. Since adding a new type of culture basically necessitates needing a new set of stars. Yes, there are diplomatic stars based on how much Leverage (new diplomatic currency) you get. Tom Tucker posted:Otherwise is was pretty good. It's not bad but it has issues similar to many other systems in Civ6: it feels like it was added by a mod. The UI is nothing like anything else in the game (trade or governor change city screen is completely different) and there's more complexity in it than value you can get out of it. Maybe I just didn't have a chance to use it right.
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Sep 7, 2022 19:31
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Veryslightlymad posted:I know. But what I mean is, since there are more stars, does that mean that players will require more to advance, since there is a whole new category available. Don't think so. It sounds like this leverage thing is something you have to actively engage with so it will probably come at cost of some other stars. Even if it affects balance it's more likely they make other stars a little bit more costly rather then make you earn more stars.
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Sep 7, 2022 20:09
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It doesn't get as bad as Civ6 (a true diplomat always knows a woman's birthday, but... Wait for it... Never knows her age! Get it?) But in Civ6 those quotes are relegated to special places while the Humankind dude never shuts up. So glad you can turn him off. Don't know what were they thinking.
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Sep 21, 2022 07:29
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The issue with that is that Humankind has been really balanced around the whole of history. To pull off what you describe Civ6 has shifted heavily into modern and future eras. It feels very wrong to me that everything before the steam engine is just a prelude (combined with the snowballing nature of the game it also means that you can do all the wars you need in that prelude).
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Sep 21, 2022 08:57
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...How is this opposite? My point is that I want to play a game inspired by historical stuff, and most of history happened before 1900 (I've learned some history, I know), but in Civ6 it feels like most of the game happens in a modern era. I don't mean it's *decided* there, I mean a number of turns and time you spend in later eras - in the late game you have more cities and units and spies and stuff, so it takes a lot more time. So to shoehorn more obvious climate change into the game you have to extend the later eras even more and I'm not a fan of the idea.
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Sep 21, 2022 09:19
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For me Humankind felt a lot more involved in later eras. I'm not a great Civ player and haven't won a Civ6 game on a difficulty higher than Emperor but I don't think I ever saw a modern era war in my hundreds of hours in the game. By this time I've either won the game and just optimizing stuff, or I lost hope in the Medieval era. Humankind AI actually expands so in my 2 latest games I faced AIs who were big and strong and competed with me in terms of fate points, and once I was even attacked in the contemporary era - and it wasn't the case of me neglecting military, it was aggressive AI going for a domination victory.
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Sep 21, 2022 11:55
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I think this market is over saturated. All the big games have a constant flow of updates. Even something "finished" like Civilization 6 is so big it takes years for many people to get everything out of it. I like Humankind but I have Victoria 3 right now and a few other games constantly get updates, like other Paradox games and Old World, maybe even Distant Worlds 2 or Total War games. That puts Humankind in a "I'll probably buy a complete pack in some bundle for 10 bucks" category. It's good but good is not enough anymore. Like you know Galactic Civilization 4 was released earlier this year? I've realized it today and wanted to check out how is it 6 months after release and I discovered there are no YouTube play through of it after the release. During 2000's it was the second 4X game after Civilization and today nobody cares.
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Nov 9, 2022 20:28
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Budget is another thing that keeps me worried. ES1 and EL looked great but adequate to the genre. ES1 and Humankind feel like somebody in the management screwd up and redirected money allocated for AAA open world next big thing to a niche strategy game. It's not like Civ6 is a perfect game, but it's polished enough and issues with the AI mostly affect few dedicated players. EL couldn't fix some obvious UI issues even after years of support, and people had to wait for years for some basic functionality. These games can't ever be as popular as Sega's other strategy games (Total War and Company of Heroes) unless they replace Civ from the pedestal and it doesn't seem realistic. But what do I know, maybe Amplitude and Sega just know how to make good looking games and they're doing just fine.
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Nov 9, 2022 21:03
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This criticism sounds like something very superfluous but it really is very important. On a UI level it's still very poorly conveyed. Similar games often struggle to make you care about who are you playing against beyond Montezuma is a dick and will attack (and I do think Civ is very bad about it, all you want to know about their personalities is how warlike they are and then how strong their are, you don't care about anything else about them), and Humankind makes a step forward and then two steps back. Cultural affinity really does affect how you interact with others: expansionists ignore borders, mercantile resell resources (so even if everyone hates you it's possible to buy everyone's resources through a proxy culture) and so on. But the nature of civs changes, and not just once or twice but 5 times during the game! And then the immersion hurts too. You play not against historical leaders but against "personas". So they're like you, above it all, trying to win instead of role play? No, they still role play and they kinda have their own personalities that affect their choices. So those personalities become fuzzy beyond how friendly or unfriendly they are.
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Nov 11, 2022 18:44
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mitochondritom posted:Aside from the "leaders" and their anemic personalities, the whole culture shifting mechanic does feel, to me, more reflective of history (albeit gamified). Cultures shifted. The native Britons were subjugated, colonised and in some cases assimilated by the Romans, then came Anglo Saxons, Danes, Vikings and so on, leading to England etc. It's not perfect but I feel like the genre is so heavily defined by Civilization and it makes it hard for other games to pull away from that. It would make total sense to make this in some different way. Civ-style games often allow you further to define your culture by laws and government systems. Endless Space 2 had a cool idea with quests giving you a choice of powerful traits you can add to your civilization. They could make it some sort of a branching path, like in the beginning you chose between African, Asian, American or European civ with some bonuses, and then along the way Africans can choose Mali or Egypt, and Egypt can transform into Mamluks and so on. It certainly should have been fewer transformations. Right now you look at Cubans and you have to remember not just that they're ruled by Beowulf with his own traits, but that they were also Olmecs, Mongols, Dutch etc along the way, cause these steps still give them a lot of important traits. You don't care because it isn't that important, but it's another issue with the game. It's like a very surprisingly complex and clumsy system in an otherwise elegant game. Reminds me of Endless Space 2 politics, where every action you do empowers specific political faction, and every species reacts to events in its own way. It's a simulation that Paradox designers would call too complex to put into a game, and they added it to a video game that otherwise feels like a board game.
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Nov 11, 2022 21:10
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Yeah. I came back to EL cause I feel like I didn't really play a lot of the latest two expansions or ELCP patch. And AI there doesn't have a personality too, it just has to do what his race can do. Even Necrophages don't feel particularly aggressive, it's just they never get a chance to start proper peaceful relations so you're more likely to fight them than not. After Humankind it feels less balanced and more railroaded: each race/faction has a very specific playstyle. Of course, you can expand it with research and it's affected by the random world around you (rewards from the temple, specific luxury resources, and minor factions can force you to rely on specific parts of the game). But almost all racial gimmicks seem to have very minor effects if you're not playing as a signature race. The exception is pearls and maybe naval fortresses. Trade? By the time you research all trade buildings their effect will be negligible unless you play the Roving Clans. Espionage doesn't do much stuff. Even diplomacy is extremely limited unless you're Drakken: up until the endgame prestige costs are so high for everything that you probably won't trade at all. I have never beaten the game on max difficulty and maybe I'm missing something, but it feels that you're supposed to only do basic stuff (grow your cities, build armies, research stuff that helps with it) and racial gimmick, and only delve into other directions occasionally when it's really needed - like trade building is mostly useful for creating roads for your armies. And Humankind feels like an attempt to apply the same design, but you switch your faction several times during the game and the gameplay with it. Like I strongly suspect that what I've described was on a white board in Amplitude office and faction switching was their answer. I think ES2 have balanced faction diversity and the multitude of playstyles well, so it's sad they went this way and made everyone feel homogenous.
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Nov 24, 2022 11:01
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Chamale posted:The problem is that once we got into the contemporary era, no one built tanks because there was no oil at all in our hemisphere. I'll have to set strategic resources to abundant when I set up my next game. I thought this wouldn't be an issue in a game like that cause it's very easy to buy resources from others. And even if the owners of the land with resources did not yet develop said resources Merchant civs can do that for them.
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Jan 13, 2023 14:07
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Have you played Old World?
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Jan 15, 2023 00:08
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