Magic: The Gathering: "Underground Dojo KEYBOARD cagefighters"

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Magic: The Gathering: "Underground Dojo KEYBOARD cagefighters"

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Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Magic Underwear posted:

When do actual spoilers start and not just names?

This weekend at PAX, probably on Saturday

# ¿ Aug 28, 2019 18:24

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 07:56

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

TheKingofSprings posted:

Post new Stoneforge builds, I’m so excited the card is legal!

I'm listening to Arena Decklists pod and Gerry Thompson is taking about an article he's working on that will have like 30 sfm decks but I'm not sure if it's out yet

# ¿ Aug 29, 2019 16:19

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

it's good that arena is implementing the most important part of paper magic: the reserved list

# ¿ Aug 29, 2019 19:05

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Hellsau posted:

Yeah it's this. I've made about 2000 tix since the London Mulligan was reimplemented on MTGO on July 2nd. If I were to have played Arena, I wouldn't have a cash-out option, and I likely would have had to buy a couple hundred bucks in packs since I hate bot drafts and my Arena account hasn't seen use since just after WAR came out.

Man this reminds me of the time Brian Kibler ruined the Brazilian GDP after that MTGO ptq crashed

# ¿ Aug 29, 2019 20:10

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

ilmucche posted:

Are 2-3 colour decks a huge problem compared to monocolour decks? I thought it had more to do with shuffling.

Fetches + Shocks let you easily play 4-5 colours. If you have fetches that get Plains in your deck you can, for example, put one each of a WB, WR, and WG shockland in your deck and make any colour of mana you want. Aside from a few life there's no deckbuilding cost and it aggressively homogenises deck construction when you can play All The Good Cards

# ¿ Aug 30, 2019 00:25

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

I think it's because by the time the spell is being cast, it's not targeting a creature you control (since it's gone)

Or it's a bug.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2019 13:01

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Elyv posted:

Targets are chosen before costs are paid, so sacrificing frostling targeting itself, for instance, is a perfectly legal play

that's not what they were asking

their point was, by the time Bone Splinters has been actually cast, it's not targeting a creature you control because there's no creature there anymore, so Season won't trigger (maybe????)

# ¿ Sep 1, 2019 14:49

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Sampatrick posted:

Burn is owning the Open lmao

unban Hogaak

# ¿ Sep 1, 2019 23:32

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Hellsau posted:

Yeah playing a bunch of Omniscience drafts reminded me just how much I hate bot drafts. The cards you want in Omniscience drafts are mostly garbage, so it's fine, but you get to see how absurd the individual card rankings are. Like, Unsummon is some sort of insanely high pick for the bots.

I'm not sure if I see more Murders than Griffin Protectors because the bots are bad, or because I trained myself to ignore white cards, but it's close.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 01:46

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

suicidesteve posted:

I got a 3rd pack 8th pick Overcome and I'm just trying to figure how that would ever be possible. The first pick was an insane bomb and the other 6 bots weren't in green? From the same pack, my rare was the green leyline which did not wheel.

It's because Overcome is not very good.

The bots hack rares like crazy, I don't think they ever pass a rare dual.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 01:48

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Hellsau posted:

lol someone played a Griffin Protector against me in like my eighth draft and I was like, why is that an uncommon?

It isn't, I just managed not to see a single one in eight drafts, and no one had played one against me.

I looked at my last 10 drafts with https://www.17lands.com and the latest I saw a Protector was pack 1 pick 3, once. The latest I saw Murder was p3p4 but that was only once and otherwise it was gone by the 3rd pick. According to 17 lands' bot pick tracker, Griffin Protector is ranked as the 2nd highest white common after Pacifism, but is being taken over much better cards like Shock (red's 2nd best common) and Leafkin Druid (green's 1st-3rd best, depending on who you ask). Normally in a human draft you'd see white cards being taken lower than normal because it's such a weak colour overall but the bots don't adjust for that as far as I can tell.

oryx posted:

I've never seen them pass a dual, but I have gotten passed A+ bomb mythics more than a couple times. Has there been any data released on how the bots choose their cards??

Was it one with a heavy colour requirement? Bots will pass Cavaliers and such a bit more later in the draft. I got a Vivien p3p2 and an Atemsis (rare) p2p5.

There hasn't been an official post about how the bots determine where they take cards, but Ryan Spain was on the dev team for Arena pre-beta and he talks about it in on episode 504 of Limited Resources.

timestamp 42:00 if it didn't link properly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OfeQagcOBY&t=2525s

Basically, the bots are not drafting a deck with a curve, they're mostly just taking cards based on what cards they think are good. Each card is given a weight and the bots take the card based on that weight until they have a high enough density of cards in two colours and then they lock in to that pair, but they might "splash" if a card in another colour is strong enough.

This doesn't address why they take dual lands so high though. In those 10 drafts I looked at, I saw a common dual as late as 11th but I don't recall ever seeing a Temple that I didn't open, so obviously those are being weighed higher by the bots.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 12:22

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

mossyfisk posted:

I've gone too far, I'm now considering playing Stream of Thought to mill 4 and shuffle my creeping chills back in.

You didn't exile them when you dumped them the first time?

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 16:59

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Devor posted:

The guy who designed the system (one of the original hosts of LR, maybe first one? Ryan Spain? Maybe?) was on LR and got into the algorithm some.

It starts with hand-made card rankings, kind of like a normal individual card set review.

Bots start with the highest value pick

Bots will eventually lock into a color, then a second color within a certain number of picks (looking at purely colors, not pips as I recall), and HIGHLY prioritize those colors. I think there's some de-prioritization to avoid picking a dual-color card if they're not locked in.

Bots give no thought to curve, except that an efficient card would have a higher value. But if you looked at their deck at the end it might be loaded with 5 drops

After a while, they go back and use human draft data to fine tune the value of picks, which will change around the meta. This is a one- or two-time process, not continuous.

My guess is that humans snap up dual-lands because they want to fill out their collection for deck building, so after the first tuning pass bots love them too? Or they might give them high values to reflect a "real" draft experience where real life people are filling out their collection and won't want to pass rare dual lands.

There's no way the bot pick orders are based off human data, because they keep taking white cards in M20

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 19:29

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Hellsau posted:

Allegedly they took data from MTGO drafts in the past, where maybe taking a white card makes sense since you can be the only white drafter in the pod.

Obviously taking data from Arena drafts to tune the Arena bots would be pointless since you're usually railroaded into UB or Temur.

Yeah, but in the past drafts came out on MTGO before they went live on Arena, and now I think they happen at the same time?

Taking white cards to be the sole white drafter only makes sense if you're seeing it's open a few picks in, not slamming Protector Griffin 2nd pick but still passing Raise the Alarm like the bots are doing.

Do common print run orders still exist, and does Arena follow them? If so, I could look at draft logs and figure out the what the bots are taking the first couple picks in each pack.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 19:53

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

MAgic the GATHERING is a normal game that makes me holler WHAT IS FOOD WHAT DOES FOOD DO

I'm SCREAMING because I just do not know the properties of fFOOD

extremely same

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 20:42

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

long-rear end nips Diane posted:

The regular one in the article doesn't have reminder text either

Yeah, current mythic planeswalkers don't have reminder text on abilities. Domri Chaos Bringer has riot, and Tezzeret Master of the Bridge has affinity, and neither has reminder text.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 21:53

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

my guess is it's like Aftermath where you can cast the sorcery from the graveyard

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 22:12

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Elyv posted:

I guess I can wait until I see what adventure does but this card feels like a pretty severe flavor/function disconnect right now

after the kid dies/leaves the bears come back home dude

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 22:23

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

neaden posted:

I'm unreasonably mad about the flavor of this. The art shows her having killed 3 bears, but as a 1/2 she is incapable of killing any! And her ability let's her kill enchantments and artifacts, but according to our latest science bears are neither of those.

lol just lol if your game don't have robo bears

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 22:24

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Elyv posted:

wrangles bears while standing on a bear rug, with a bear head mounted on her wall, a bloody cleaver, and at least 3 bear traps

~~alternate timelines~~

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 22:56

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

AnEdgelord posted:

I kind of hope food isn't life gain because if its as ubiquitous as clues or treasure then this is gonna be a real rough format for aggro decks

not seeing the problem here

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 23:19

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

AnEdgelord posted:

The slower the format the worse playing against t3feri and field of the dead is going to be

still not seeing the problem here

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 23:26

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

AnEdgelord posted:

then you are lost

you're the one that wants the game to end before turn 4, i'm just looking to play some good ol fashioned magic

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 23:31

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

1) so do we have confirmation for how Adventures work? Activated ability, castable from graveyard, castable from hand, or are we just guessing?

no idea yet

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 23:40

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

AnEdgelord posted:

fine but that doesn't really matter for the rest of my point

the rest of your point was also woefully inaccurate

# ¿ Sep 3, 2019 23:50

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

https://twitter.com/MTG_Arena/status/1169022264182038531/photo/1

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 00:00

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

cheetah7071 posted:

So I guess it's more like monstrous? That cars doesn't make much sense unless you can use both halves

it makes plenty of sense if you can't use both halves, it's called a downside

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 00:03

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Eej posted:

Tale as old as time
Song as old as rhyme
Saproling and the Beast

tremendous

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 00:46

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

the adventure is CLEARLY an alternative time line

goldielocks OR 3 bears
beast OR prince adam

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 01:32

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Yawgmoth posted:

you're right, it has to be gaston

not a fuckin chance gaston is a 1/1

i guess he'd be roughly a 5/5

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 02:02

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

the Swamp and Well seem cute for limited, the rest seem junk

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 02:14

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

life gain???????

:douche:

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 03:22

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Voyager I posted:

Hope you like it enough for Modern.

craft your elfs now for historic before they cost TWO common wildcards

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 03:32

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

ItBreathes posted:

One having a strictly more limited design space than the other doesn't seem to me to be a compelling reason to keep them both, especially as, as Witching Well shows, artifacts don't have to tap.

Not like this though. There's been an uncommon cycle in M20, a rare cycle in Rav3, a mythic cycle in Kaldesh, a rare cycle of enchantment artifacts in Theros, an handful of (mostly creature) card in New Phyrexia with Phyrexian casting costs, and then you're back at Alara.

Now, I'm not saying they're going to do so, but if they came and said they were getting rid of enchantments to reduce complexity I wouldn't be surprised. I'd be less surprised if colored artifacts on a large scale are less popular than artifacts have been historically and they walk the whole thing back.

there's only been 120+ coloured artifacts and THAT'S WHERE I DRAW THE LINE

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 03:48

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

whydirt posted:

That triggered ability text on Syr Konrad seems awkwardly templated in terms of remembering what makes it trigger or not without rereading it every time.

It's funny that they had to make 'go to the graveyard from play' (dies) and 'go to the graveyard not from play' both be defined separately because of Teysa's replacement effect.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 13:43

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

it's aftermath, which is Flashback, and also a split card. not kicker

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 15:54

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Jen X posted:

Teferi is the best, though?

Looking forward to that one guy that can't count to 4 screaming and crying about more Teferi

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 18:15

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Sampatrick posted:

Adventure is literally kicker

lmao this guy doesn't even know what kicker is

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 19:28

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Sampatrick posted:

You need to include cantrip in order to include stuff like flashback or investigate

This guy admits that Flashback exists but can't figure out Adventure isn't Kicker, loving amazing.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2019 19:48

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 07:56

Lone Goat: Apr 16, 2003; When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.

Arivia posted:

I think it was their typing about it actually

shame on you if you don't write out each of your posts in cursive and then scan it and use OCR to paste it onto the forums

# ¿ Sep 5, 2019 00:51

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