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Borrovan posted:and if Government did it anyway they would be in contempt of court, and liable to have the rozzers come round and chuck them in prison for 2 years. Bit of a problem to expect the cops to arrest the government though when it’s the government that controls the cops loving megalol if the UK goes all Latin America neolib dictatorship
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Sep 1, 2019 11:06
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Gonna need a bigger clock to stuff the entire government in.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:06
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There are no rules, only power and those willing to wield it. The coppers will never in a million years arrest the government.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:09
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Not really sure that dom cummies and the idiot squad are particularly personally powerful though. They're literally the bottom of the barrel of tory morons. Like the government has basically no majority and is running terrified of even the slightest legislative opposition, they're not really doing a very good job of appearing in charge.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:11
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Miftan posted:But also because it's been 3 years and nothing has happened yet (because we haven't left yet and also things have gotten worse) The biggest thing that's happened - especially if you're retired - is that the cost of stuff has gone up. But people see that as a normal thing, so it doesn't seem to count. The amount of times I've just heard "Oooh it's project fear again" when ANYTHING is touted as a consequence of no deal brexit is unbelievable.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:20
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Taear posted:The biggest thing that's happened - especially if you're retired - is that the cost of stuff has gone up. But people see that as a normal thing, so it doesn't seem to count. & still people call PROJECT FEAR when you say "look at this very real thing that has literally happened in reality"
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Sep 1, 2019 11:23
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Borrovan posted:Also factories have closed down & poo poo. Until it effects them it isn't going to be "real" everything feels dreamlike and unreal and has done for years, because we can increasingly see that the emperor has no clothes on, but because the emperor has stolen our ability to live in anything but empire we have no ability to talk about it other than to comment on it.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:26
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OwlFancier posted:Not really sure that dom cummies and the idiot squad are particularly personally powerful though. They're literally the bottom of the barrel of tory morons. Robert Mueller was going to bring down Trump. Institutions will never save us, and I genuinely don't understand how anyone thinks the courts or the police are ever going to ride over the hill to rescue us. I guess it's less that the tories are powerful, and more that no-one will ever take the leap to do anything about their pissing on every line they come across
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Sep 1, 2019 11:27
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Borrovan posted:Also factories have closed down & poo poo.  Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34463597 (Dunno about hotlink but seems to work) When you've seen everything shut down or be offshored for the last 50 years, someone telling you that more factories have shut down doesn't really come as a surprise or change your world view. RockyB fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 11:28
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There is a possibility that a majority of parliament will continue to support Johnson even if he literally tells them he's doing what he wants and they don't get a say any more. But that's not the same thing as the police siding with him personally over parliament, which I think is unlikely.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:29
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RockyB posted:When you've seen everything shut down for the last 50 years, someone telling you that more factories have shut down doesn't really come as a surprise or change your world view. Yea. And it's really easy to blame it on immigration or the EU anyway, it's not a new thing.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:30
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RockyB posted:When you've seen everything shut down for the last 50 years, someone telling you that more factories have shut down doesn't really come as a surprise or change your world view. oh.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:30
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Josef bugman posted:Until it effects them it isn't going to be "real" everything feels dreamlike and unreal and has done for years, because we can increasingly see that the emperor has no clothes on, but because the emperor has stolen our ability to live in anything but empire we have no ability to talk about it other than to comment on it. Same with everything. If it didn't happen to me or my close family/friends it doesn't happen and you're either lying or you are a scammer/criminal and the government caught you out. Austerity? Didn't affect me therefore it doesn't happen. PIP Assessments that fail the disabled? Didn't happen to me, therefore it doesn't happen (1 very rightwing disabled acquaintance whose PIP assessment went fine - he's articulate, a researcher, and his partner's brother is 'something' in the DWP so of course it did - and thus 'we should be proud the UK gives us this money and those who don't get it are obviously scammers') etc.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:34
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Borrovan posted:Eh, guess so, but seeing the actual real-world people who have lost their jobs because of this farce should be pretty compelling to anyone with a degree of empath- When would you ever see them unless you live near the people affected though?
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Sep 1, 2019 11:35
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e: ^^^ I've seen them on the telly, and I'm a reclusive shut-in nerdOwlFancier posted:But that's not the same thing as the police siding with him personally over parliament, which I think is unlikely. The way it'd have to go down is:- -Government defies an AoP; -someone applies for JR; -the Court accepts the application (no-brainer), and orders Gov't to not do that (discretionary, but c'mon) -Government defies the order; -Whichever-ministers are arrested and charged with contempt of court (this is the bit that's up to police and prosecutors, but it's literally their job, and I'm p sure the courts would just order them to so it's their own necks on the line if they don't. No criminal lawyer over here tho) -A trial happens, wherein all the most expensive lawyers in the land argue that Gov't had totally defied an unambiguous Court Order accidentally in good faith and thus lacked the mens rea or some stupid poo poo, probably getting them off but with an even clearer and less ambiguous order to stop loving around -If found guilty, sentencing, maximum penalty of 2 years or more usually a slap on the wrist if you're rich & white enough; if not, they've probably got a new order to comply with and would get hosed if they didn't e: vvv lmao I don't know, I guess Parliament does technically have the authority to pass the Send The Goons Round And gently caress Em Up Act 2019, idk what powers Bercow has without passing an Act tho 
Borrovan fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 11:38
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Would it even get to the courts or would bercow get annoyed and send the mace man round?
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Sep 1, 2019 11:40
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This feels like an appropriate subject for the thread. There are plans for a women’s refuge in Edinburgh which is in the process of being highjacked a bunch of NIMBYs because obviously all abused women are junkies and this will attract drug dealers to the area etc etc. It could really use some ‘support’ comments. https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=makeComment&keyVal=PVT0Z5EWG9T00
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Sep 1, 2019 11:40
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Borrovan posted:e: ^^^ I've seen them on the telly, and I'm a reclusive shut-in nerd Hasn’t the Tory government already defied a whole bunch of court orders with literally no consequence?
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Sep 1, 2019 11:46
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Jose posted:loving liberals XR were out in force in Manchester over the weekend, shutting down the city by *checks notes* getting a couple of buses rerouted. Frankly the new bus route worked out better for me, so they managed to achieve less than nothing.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:46
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Borrovan posted:e: ^^^ I've seen them on the telly, and I'm a reclusive shut-in nerd People on the TV aren't real though. You get too many sad images (charities and etc) on the TV. Unless you specifically actually KNOW people affected like Jaeluni Asjil mentioned people just don't give a poo poo.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:47
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Pochoclo posted:Hasn’t the Tory government already defied a whole bunch of court orders with literally no consequence? They've very passively aggressively complied with bercow giving them strongly worded letters to do as he says. I'm fairly sure that bercow actually outranks Johnson in the context of parliamentary authority and I think he probably would respond to boris actually telling him to get bent by sending the parliamentary polis round, which he personally commands, basically. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 11:49
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Pochoclo posted:Hasn’t the Tory government already defied a whole bunch of court orders with literally no consequence? There was a shittonne of non-binding parliamentary resolutions, which is pretty bad in constitutional terms but not straight-up illegal like an Act of Parliament would be
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Sep 1, 2019 11:50
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Sometimes I guess I get confused at how 99.9% of what Parliament does in this country is not legally binding in any way or form
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Sep 1, 2019 11:51
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Taear posted:People on the TV aren't real though. You get too many sad images (charities and etc) on the TV. Unless you specifically actually KNOW people affected like Jaeluni Asjil mentioned people just don't give a poo poo. People just ain't no good.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:53
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Finally listened to the podcast, good work guys, it was great. I thought it was pretty cruel to transition from the Internationale back into God Save The Queen at the end though, it made me feel dirty.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:56
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Barry Foster posted:People just ain't no good. I think the problem is the way in which it is difficult to think good things about folks when you don't think good things about yourself alongside a culture that now glorifies callousness in the name of profit and has begun to devour itself. Kindness is considered weird and threatening to so many folks, especially in media, because it is so antithetical to how they got ahead.
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Sep 1, 2019 11:57
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Just because I was set to thinking about it with the earlier factories comment, it really is amazing just how much industry we've lost in this country. Taking the little village of ~5,000 I grew up in, since the 70s we've lost a lemonade factory, multiple brickworks, all remnants of the hosiery industry that was built up from the 1840s and plenty of others. There's still a small industrial estate and a couple of plastic extrusion companies, but I'd say people employed locally in light industry has dropped from 50-odd percent to maybe 10. And all this has been replaced with ... well, commuter suburbs, really. My personal experience, before I left for the big city to become a member of the hated bourgeoisie, was being fired from my first job at a knitwear factory (as a cleaner) because it was being closed down and offshored to Romania. That would have been around 2008, which looking at it is just after Romania ascended to the EU... poo poo, am I brexiteer now?
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Sep 1, 2019 12:02
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I think the problem is that the service industry is not considered "real work" whilst also not giving actual results that are obvious to people.
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Sep 1, 2019 12:04
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It's more just astonishment at modern capitalism that we can somehow lose all our industry and still somehow be a rich country? That we still get all these imports of the same goods made overseas somehow and send back... nothing? in return. Balance of payments has been negative for ages and by some magic the city of london makes countries still send things here?
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Sep 1, 2019 12:05
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Taear posted:People on the TV aren't real though. You get too many sad images (charities and etc) on the TV. Unless you specifically actually KNOW people affected like Jaeluni Asjil mentioned people just don't give a poo poo. A bit dated now, but one of the most compelling explanations for this remains the monkeysphere / Dunbar number: https://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number If you kill one man it's murder, kill 100,000 with austerity and it's a statistic etc.
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Sep 1, 2019 12:07
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RockyB posted:Just because I was set to thinking about it with the earlier factories comment, it really is amazing just how much industry we've lost in this country. Taking the little village of ~5,000 I grew up in, since the 70s we've lost a lemonade factory, multiple brickworks, all remnants of the hosiery industry that was built up from the 1840s and plenty of others. There's still a small industrial estate and a couple of plastic extrusion companies, but I'd say people employed locally in light industry has dropped from 50-odd percent to maybe 10. It's funny how many people still think a job is a thing you get by just walking into somewhere and handing them a CV. So much has closed around me I do wonder where the people have actually gone and what they might do now. Not just factories, just....everything. RockyB posted:If you kill one man it's murder, kill 100,000 with austerity and it's a statistic etc. Yea. That's part of the reason why people get mad if you're unhappy at being friends with Tories (and why they're happy to see Jess Philips be friends with Tories). It's too abstract. Unless JRM starts wandering the streets actively shooting people it's not enough.
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Sep 1, 2019 12:08
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2050 - everything is manufactured in China. Retail is replaced by Amazon. The rest of the world just does computer touching, banking, and gastronomy
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Sep 1, 2019 12:08
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Nothingtoseehere posted:It's more just astonishment at modern capitalism that we can somehow lose all our industry and still somehow be a rich country? That we still get all these imports of the same goods made overseas somehow and send back... nothing? in return. Balance of payments has been negative for ages and by some magic the city of london makes countries still send things here? 
Borrovan fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 12:11
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Borrovan posted:So it's not like the process requires us asking => them agreeing, but they can't unilaterally extend the period. They can just say "yeh we're all cool with extending it, up to u guys" though
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Sep 1, 2019 12:14
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Borrovan posted:We send our capital, benevolently creating forced labour opportunities for disadvantaged people overseas whilst giving the British worker more time to spend on his hobbies, like applying for welfare benefits and stealing food from bins But... what is capital, really? it's not precisely money - it's the things money can buy, tools and materials and all that. And we don't make those anymore, at least in any number. So we send our capital to china so china can buy the things china produces and in return china sends things to the UK?
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Sep 1, 2019 12:17
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Taear posted:It's funny how many people still think a job is a thing you get by just walking into somewhere and handing them a CV. And so many jobs now you have to apply on line and there's no room for people with a non-linear life, nor, with very specific exceptions, indeed for people with PhDs or masters - instant bin yet the question asks 'what is your highest qualification' and if you fail to mention it and they find out - sackable offence? RockyB posted:A bit dated now, but one of the most compelling explanations for this remains the monkeysphere / Dunbar number: I like that monkeysphere one (haven't read the other one yet). So true about the garbage man. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 12:19
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As far as I am aware, the UK sells buildings in London that nobody lives in to Russians who never visit and then sends the money to China and Poland to buy cheap tat and food. And also people in the UK sell buildings to each other for ever increasing numbers of monies and this generates wealth.
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Sep 1, 2019 12:20
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Josef bugman posted:I think the problem is that the service industry is not considered "real work" whilst also not giving actual results that are obvious to people. The big secret of the middle class is that most jobs aren't 'real work'. See: Bullshit Jobs, that CEO 55 hour work week chart, the commentariat...
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Sep 1, 2019 12:21
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Jose posted:loving liberals OwlFancier posted:As far as I am aware, the UK sells buildings in London that nobody lives in to Russians who never visit and then sends the money to China and Poland to buy cheap tat and food.
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Sep 1, 2019 12:35
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Pochoclo posted:2050 - everything is manufactured in China. Retail is replaced by Amazon. The rest of the world just does computer touching, banking, and gastronomy music movies microcode high speed pizza delivery
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