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Im curious who has the largest tree vs. years as head coach. I assume its still BillyB because nobody can stop hiring his detritus, but number 2 might be interesting!
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Sep 3, 2019 09:14
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Barudak posted:Im curious who has the largest tree vs. years as head coach. I assume its still BillyB because nobody can stop hiring his detritus, but number 2 might be interesting! Don Coryell, maybe? Since Bill Walsh is on his tree
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Sep 3, 2019 09:16
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Randaconda posted:I don't understand how nobody on Bill's tree apparently learn anything. (Unless you count Saban, and he's arguably been more dominant in college ball than Bill ever has in the NFL) I think a big part of it is a lot of what he does can be emulated by assholes that don't understand why he does what he does. That's why Romeo stands out as being a decent person and more of a peer than protogee.
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Sep 3, 2019 10:03
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The problem with coaching under Belichick as I understand it is that he is a very very very good manager and will give all his staff hyper-specific tasks and tout the "Do your job" line to death. His coordinators and coaches become very good at the things assigned to them but lack the wide breadth of knowledge of all things football that Bill has and also don't have the same skills and personality that Bill possesses to get the most of out his players.
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Sep 3, 2019 16:07
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It's worth noting that amongst the drama of the DeFelippo firing last year it's not that he didnt run enough, it's he would abandon the run even when it was working. He flatly didnt do a great job last year. Brett Kollman breaks it down a bit in his video on Cousins. https://youtu.be/uPUG9FfrY9c
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Sep 3, 2019 16:24
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DariusLikewise posted:The problem with coaching under Belichick as I understand it is that he is a very very very good manager and will give all his staff hyper-specific tasks and tout the "Do your job" line to death. His coordinators and coaches become very good at the things assigned to them but lack the wide breadth of knowledge of all things football that Bill has and also don't have the same skills and personality that Bill possesses to get the most of out his players. I think probably another underrated aspect of it is that pretty much every time one of these coaches has left they've also been able to take no one with them. These guys are taking excellent schemes and being forced to basically teach it to their coaching staff(with in some cases incomplete knowledge themselves) and trying to make that the strength of their team. Matt Patricia had to turn around and teach his defensive coaching staff what he knew before they could teach it to the players, and if he didn't know something they probably didn't have it. Like, their defensive coordinator Paul Pasqualoni if I recall correctly is basically a 1-gap 3-4/Quarters coverage guy his entire career, and he's been asked to learn and oversee something very different in many respects. That's one of the reasons why I'm optimistic about Brian Flores- he's managed to land seven former Patriots coaches besides himself, and between them they've got experience coaching every single unit besides I believe runningbacks and special teams. The defensive staff has current knowledge of every aspect of that defensive scheme.
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Sep 3, 2019 16:46
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Belichick changes scheme week to week and modifies the scheme to fit the players he has. Belichick's assistants burn everything down and purge the roster for their ~scheme fit~ 
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Sep 3, 2019 17:13
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LabyaMynora posted:In my opinion any of these could be one-and-done coaches: I think Kliff, Gase and Taylor are safer than you think. Fangio also probably gets at least two years. La Fleur is a possibility, if the new offensive scheme just doesn't suit the players, looks like a step backwards and the Packers don't win games he could be out. Kitchens I could see as well, although that totally depends on his relationship with Dorsey. If they're working well together and Kitchens is basically doing what Dorsey wants then he should be fine. I would also petition to move Harbaugh and Rivera to mild, Rivera especially. New owner, legacy coach. He's dust if this season goes poorly, count on it fast cars loose anus posted:In a rational world BoB's seat would be hotter, but the thing is I can't be confident he'll be fired even if we miss the playoffs because of the turmoil in the front office. If we start slow you can say he's hotter than hell but who knows if that will matter. Yeah Bill's status is a bit murky. Right now they need him and presumably he is going to be a large part of the GM search. It's hard to picture him finding and hiring a GM (that Pats guy maybe) and then that GM turning around and firing him, but stranger things have happened. If the Texans have a mediocre year he's probably safe.
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Sep 3, 2019 17:14
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Remember him and Brady just watching footage of Ed Reed and being terrified?
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Sep 3, 2019 17:14
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OxySnake posted:It's worth noting that amongst the drama of the DeFelippo firing last year it's not that he didnt run enough, it's he would abandon the run even when it was working. He flatly didnt do a great job last year. You're right but I see it more as a sign that he's not good at the football CEO aspects of being a head coach. Playcalling can be fleeting at times, and you don't just chew through promising expensive people because they don't have one aspect of their job already developed.
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Sep 3, 2019 17:42
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Play posted:Yeah Bill's status is a bit murky. Right now they need him and presumably he is going to be a large part of the GM search. It's hard to picture him finding and hiring a GM (that Pats guy maybe) and then that GM turning around and firing him, but stranger things have happened. If the Texans have a mediocre year he's probably safe. The GM they want is a current Patriots exec that is in the last year of his contract lol BoB couldn't be safer
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Sep 3, 2019 18:05
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DariusLikewise posted:The problem with coaching under Belichick as I understand it is that he is a very very very good manager and will give all his staff hyper-specific tasks and tout the "Do your job" line to death. His coordinators and coaches become very good at the things assigned to them but lack the wide breadth of knowledge of all things football that Bill has and also don't have the same skills and personality that Bill possesses to get the most of out his players. Compare/Contrast at to Andy Reid's disciples who are mostly good think there was an SI? piece on Reid's tree
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Sep 3, 2019 18:27
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sean10mm posted:Belichick changes scheme week to week and modifies the scheme to fit the players he has. Eh, that's kind of a cliche- it's not like the Patriots are going to come out in a 4-3 Over for sixty snaps a game or whatever. They've got a fixed scheme, it's just that the underlying principles(cover as many interior gaps with DL as possible) buys them flexibility and they've managed to work in a way where they've limited some of the big, expensive must-have pieces. I don't think the Dolphins at least have really lost much of anything due to scheme fit. If anything, they're taking it in a bit of a different direction w/ regards to all the 220 linebackers they're going to be featuring.
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Sep 3, 2019 18:28
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Compare/Contrast at to Andy Reid's disciples who are mostly good yep https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/15/andy-reid-coaching-tree-doug-pederson-sean-mcdermott-ron-rivera-matt-nagy-steve-spagnuolo-john-harbaugh quote:“It’s conceptual, a new wave type book,” adds former Rams coach Steve Spagnuolo. “He was a firm believer that coaching is teaching. He wanted to surround himself with good teachers and that's what he did. And I think all of us to the core, and he has that in his core, I think all of us had the same thing. I think, in this business, if you have a background or a solid foundation, you're on your way.
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Sep 3, 2019 18:32
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The only way Harbaugh is unsafe is if the Ravens new offensive scheme to revolutionize the NFL (aka Run The Dang Ball) is a complete and hilarious failure. Which isn't exactly impossible so we'll see.
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Sep 3, 2019 18:35
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The Chiefs, Eagles and Bears all share some huge scheme elements. Along with the group of teams that are extremely west coast offense, I almost look at the Reid tree as a separate offensive scheme, essentially, with a lot of college-style tweaks like RPOs and such. It always gets a little messy when you try to pigeonhole playcalling but those teams definitely have some key similarities.
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Sep 3, 2019 18:38
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Reid's tree also includes Rivera who despite being on a mild seat is a good coach then McDermott who looks solid as well.
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Sep 3, 2019 18:43
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Ches Neckbeard posted:Reid's tree also includes Rivera who despite being on a mild seat is a good coach then McDermott who looks solid as well. True, those two as well as Harbaugh just don't seem to show it as much as Pederson and Nagy, who are really both Reid-lite. I do think some of Reid's flexibility and creativity are on display for how Rivera and Harbaugh adapted their games to nontraditional quarterbacks.
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Sep 3, 2019 18:48
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Play posted:I think Kliff, Gase and Taylor are safer than you think. Fangio also probably gets at least two years. La Fleur is a possibility, if the new offensive scheme just doesn't suit the players, looks like a step backwards and the Packers don't win games he could be out. Kitchens I could see as well, although that totally depends on his relationship with Dorsey. If they're working well together and Kitchens is basically doing what Dorsey wants then he should be fine. Some of my thinking here: The Friends-of-McVay gang are probably on thin ice no matter what team. It was kind of flukey bullshit the way teams went after them, and I would not be surprised if the teams that hired them all have a collective, "What the gently caress were we thinking?!" moment by the end of the year. I know that Mike Brown is notoriously cheap and the Cardinals just one-and-done'd another guy, but if these guys look clueless or in over their heads, they probably have a lot shorter leash than anyone, even their teams' owners/Gm's, realize right now. Gase, like I said, is a loving gently caress, and if he manages to lose the Jets locker room and alienate ownership and what's left of the front office in one season, they may decide to go in a different direction - away from him. Fangio is a case where I look at as this - what did John Elway learn from giving Vance Joseph a second year? He strikes me as the kind of guy to over-correct, so in giving Vance another year, he may overcompensate and freak out if Fangio's first year isn't so hot.
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Sep 3, 2019 22:35
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Kliff is either going to win or he'll be gone before the season ends. I want him to succeed. I want to see NFL air raid. I could also see the cardinals remaining defeated through week 8 or 9 and them axing him.
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Sep 3, 2019 22:42
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I feel like Kliff gets at least 2-3 years depending on how improved year 2 is over year 1. He's basically married to Kyler Murray for better or for worse and I think their GM Steve Keim goes before the coach does.
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Sep 3, 2019 22:45
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Tac Zaylor
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Sep 3, 2019 22:50
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DariusLikewise posted:I feel like Kliff gets at least 2-3 years depending on how improved year 2 is over year 1. He's basically married to Kyler Murray for better or for worse and I think their GM Steve Keim goes before the coach does. Rightfully so, too. Keim is loving awful. The Cardinals SHOULD realize that Kliff has been set up to fail this year and thus can't really be judged properly this season. I'm not saying he's good or bad but I AM saying that Keim is definitely bad LabyaMynora posted:Some of my thinking here: Re: Taylor, could happen although the Bengals owner is not known for pulling the plug on coaches early. He also gets some armor from the fact that the Bengals are injured, have a really uncompetitive roster and are adapting to a brand new scheme. I think he gets at least two years if not three to really see if he'll work out there, unless they like literally win zero games. With the rest of them you have some good points but I still think the likelihood of being fired after one year is relatively slim. Football ownership is conservative by nature and it's wisely seen as a sign of incompetence to fire coaches after one year. The thinking being that if you thought they were good enough to hire then you should be willing to see it through and actually discover if they're any good or not. One year usually isn't enough to make those judgments.
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Sep 3, 2019 22:53
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Hue Jackson (2011) Mike Mularkey (2012) Jim Tomsula (2015) Chip Kelly (2016) Steve Wilks (2018) That's the entire list of one-and-done coaches this decade, in a league that averages 6-8 coaching changes per year. I don't know why this thread endlessly predicts multiple one-and-dones every year, it just doesn't happen outside of extraordinary, franchise-altering circumstances.
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Sep 4, 2019 01:52
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Benne posted:Hue Jackson (2011) 3 times in the last 4 years, yeah i wonder why people are guessing which one is gonna be next
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Sep 4, 2019 02:09
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I didn't know who the Bengals coach was until this thread
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Sep 4, 2019 02:48
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Benne posted:I don't know why this thread endlessly predicts multiple one-and-dones every year, it just doesn't happen outside of extraordinary, franchise-altering circumstances. My counter-argument is that the league doesn't normally step all over itself to hire a bunch of young, unproven guys to be head coaches because they are tangentially associated with a promising, young HC who just kind of ate poo poo in the Super Bowl after all these guys were hired. I think that's the first argument for the possibility of a multiple one-and-done HC season. Add to that the unlikely tale of Freddie Kitchens, a QB Coach who fell rear end backwards into an OC job, and then fell rear end backwards into being HC - all in the course of one season - there's a guy who can't afford to go 4-12 in his first season.
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Sep 4, 2019 02:51
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sharknado slashfic posted:I didn't know who the Bengals coach was until this thread Zachery Taylor Thomas, of Home Improvement fame. EDIT: Oh poo poo, ZTT is older than the actual guy, LOL!!!
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Sep 4, 2019 02:52
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hifi posted:3 times in the last 4 years, yeah i wonder why people are guessing which one is gonna be next 3 out of 5 of those have been the historically dick-tripping Niners or literally an attempted coup during the death of the owner.
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Sep 4, 2019 03:06
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Benne posted:Hue Jackson (2011) Frankly speaking teams should do it even more often because the vast majority of coaches simply aren't very good.
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Sep 4, 2019 03:14
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LabyaMynora posted:Zachery Taylor Thomas, of Home Improvement fame.
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Sep 4, 2019 03:49
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No Irish Need Imply posted:thats a mindfuck which means im old Oh poo poo, apparently I hosed up my own joke. Zak Taylor - Born: May 10, 1983 (age 36 years) Zachery Taylor - 12th President of the United States - Born: November 24, 1784 So not only am I old, I'm also suffering from early onset dementia. EDIT: The funny thing is, if you google Zachery Taylor Thomas, it knows exactly who you're looking for.
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Sep 4, 2019 04:04
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I don't think Shurmur is in any danger yet. If there is any danger to his job it is related to Gettleman, who has taken almost all the blame for everything going wrong so far, probably rightly so. Shurmur was fine last year and while he wasn't some savior I had no problems with him. The team is just devoid of talent and it isn't his fault.
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Sep 4, 2019 04:20
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Benne posted:Hue Jackson (2011) Rob Chudzinski 2013
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Sep 4, 2019 04:56
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Is Vrabel not warming up at all? Titans seem just totally directionless and going nowhere. Their game plan is "DERRICK HENRY!!!!!!!" and maybe mixing things up by benching Mariota for Tannehill at some point. They're one of the most boring and least inspiring teams in the league right now. But still might make the playoffs because AFCS, which I guess answers my own question.
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Sep 4, 2019 06:14
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Docjowles posted:Is Vrabel not warming up at all? Titans seem just totally directionless and going nowhere. Their game plan is "DERRICK HENRY!!!!!!!" and maybe mixing things up by benching Mariota for Tannehill at some point. They're one of the most boring and least inspiring teams in the league right now. But still might make the playoffs because AFCS, which I guess answers my own question. He's been there one year and they went 9-7.
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Sep 4, 2019 07:56
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LabyaMynora posted:Oh poo poo, apparently I hosed up my own joke. it's because the other kid on that show was named Zachery and had three names also. Do not feel bad
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Sep 4, 2019 08:00
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Docjowles posted:Is Vrabel not warming up at all? Titans seem just totally directionless and going nowhere. Their game plan is "DERRICK HENRY!!!!!!!" and maybe mixing things up by benching Mariota for Tannehill at some point. They're one of the most boring and least inspiring teams in the league right now. But still might make the playoffs because AFCS, which I guess answers my own question. “Right now”
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Sep 4, 2019 08:01
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Febreeze posted:I don't think Shurmur is in any danger yet. If there is any danger to his job it is related to Gettleman, who has taken almost all the blame for everything going wrong so far, probably rightly so. I think Gettleman appeals to that part of the Giants' fanbase that are ruining everything else and he'll inexplicably stay on long after he's worn out his welcome.
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Sep 4, 2019 12:43
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a neat cape posted:He's been there one year and they went 9-7. Mularkey went 9-7 twice
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Sep 4, 2019 14:21
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