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Why have Sting in the movie adaptation of Lord of the Rings? It's just a pointless macguffin, it's only used a couple of times. Or, maybe cool magic artifacts are a good and fun part of fantasy series. To be clear I don't particularly care whether Callandor is in the series compared to many other things which are a thousand times more important. But that doesn't mean that if it's not in the series, that doesn't have an impact. After a certain point, removing tons of stuff from the books just makes the series less interesting, less complex and deep, and a worse adaptation of what is generally pretty great source material. Thinking about it, Sting probably isn't a good equivalent anyway. Callandor plays kind of a central role in the series despite it being absent a lot. Though again, that's not to say it can't be replaced by something entirely different, or left out altogether with changes to the story. I suppose the real question to me would be, why remove Callandor? Will it improve the show overall? You're removing an iconic magical artifact which plays a central role at various climactic points in the series, and conceptually is used as a way to represent the temptation of the crazy amount of power Rand could wield if he wanted to, and his decision (for much of the books) not to use that power to just force everyone to bow to his rule. And it's also used by him a lot more (if I'm remembering correctly) during the Darth Rand stuff later in the series, it helps illustrate how far he's gone before the Dragonmount redemption scene. Maybe there's an argument that having a magical crystal sword would be too cheesy. I could kind of get that, in the context of the aesthetic they've gone with for the show which is generally very different to the books. Then again at the same time I'm sure you could make the thing look and feel a lot more sci-fi than high fantasy, with some decent design choices. Anyways, I suppose you can have him use an entirely different artifact, or not need to use an artifact at all, or just change the bits in the books where he uses Callandor, or leave out some or all of those bits. We will see what they do. But it would be a bit of a shame if they cut it, IMO.
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Mar 26, 2024 12:19
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Yeah I mean, personally I would disagree that it's "iconic" or important at all to the story. I don't think Callandor is that cool. I think it's kinda cheesy. I'd be perfectly happy if it weren't in the story at all, I don't think anything would be materially changed. But that's just me I guess
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Mar 26, 2024 12:29
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Either put callandor in rhuidean (since it shows up in one of the flashbacks already) or keep it in tear and have Rand bring the aiel to the stone instead of them being there by weaving of the pattern. You could switch out callandor for the choedan kal, simplify the cleansing of saidin, it would still work.
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Mar 26, 2024 12:29
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El Grillo posted:Why have Sting in the movie adaptation of Lord of the Rings? It's just a pointless macguffin, it's only used a couple of times. sting is used more often, and frodo already had it from the beginning the reason for removing/changing callandor would be to save time and money, because then you don't need to create tear and the characters don't have to go there, and you wouldn't have to cast all the required new people either
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Mar 26, 2024 12:33
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Oasx posted:I don't think the show will make it to Dumai's Wells, but if it does it will be glorious. I'm sure it could be fumbled.
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Mar 26, 2024 12:38
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Also Frodo receives Sting as part of an emotional scene with Bilbo that does a lot of heavy character lifting. Rand getting Callandor doesn't carry that same weight. The Choeden Kal are way more important in the magical mcguffin department imo, they tie into the theme of men and women working together in a far cleaner way
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Mar 26, 2024 12:40
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tear also has the most forgettable forsaken, and the show doesn't need all of them
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Mar 26, 2024 12:45
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The Choedan Kal require a lot more setup though. I think it's probably a good idea to combine the two but I think they'd be combined into Callandor - Rand finds Callandor in Rhuidean, perhaps amid a fight with a forsaken, Rand and Nynaeve use Callandor to cleanse saidin, rand carries callandor as his sword just generally
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Mar 26, 2024 12:47
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Magic swords are pretty cool tbf
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Mar 26, 2024 12:52
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Rarity posted:Also Frodo receives Sting as part of an emotional scene with Bilbo that does a lot of heavy character lifting. Rand getting Callandor doesn't carry that same weight. The Choeden Kal are way more important in the magical mcguffin department imo, they tie into the theme of men and women working together in a far cleaner way Rand taking callandor is him accepting that he is the Dragon Reborn, it's very important to his character in the book.
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Mar 26, 2024 12:56
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Magic swords are pretty cool tbf Good thing he already equips like 3 others over the course of the story
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Mar 26, 2024 12:57
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Rand taking callandor is him accepting that he is the Dragon Reborn, it's very important to his character in the book. That's what he did in Season 2 though
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Mar 26, 2024 13:05
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Rarity posted:That's what he did in Season 2 though I was talking specifically about the books but rereading your post you were talking specifically about the show, so we agree specifically.
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Mar 26, 2024 13:35
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I think they should adapt all the sa'angreal out. Why ever try to be true to the books when you can piss all over them and still have half the so-called fans say that it was necessary because walking all the way to a toilet is just too challenging for the modern adapter?
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Mar 26, 2024 16:27
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Data Graham posted:Yeah I mean, personally I would disagree that it's "iconic" or important at all to the story. I don't think Callandor is that cool. I think it's kinda cheesy. I'd be perfectly happy if it weren't in the story at all, I don't think anything would be materially changed. But that's just me I guess Callander has been used in some amazing scenes of the books tho and I think it's a cool inversion of what Excalibar.
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Mar 26, 2024 16:35
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ChubbyChecker posted:sting is used more often, and frodo already had it from the beginning Tear has been shown in the show, the city itself from a distance too.
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Mar 26, 2024 16:36
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Ravenson posted:I think they should adapt all the sa'angreal out. Why ever try to be true to the books when you can piss all over them and still have half the so-called fans say that it was necessary because walking all the way to a toilet is just too challenging for the modern adapter? lol just reread the books you loving dork
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Mar 26, 2024 16:38
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:lol just reread the books you loving dork
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Mar 26, 2024 16:44
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I mean, it also happens in book 2. And then book 3 sorta restarts the whole acceptance thing again, but in a far more crazy and self destructive manner. Edit: I love the fact that some goon is trying to act like they're some kind of mental giant because they're too stupid to understand books and tvs are different.
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Mar 26, 2024 16:53
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Very mad that the show isn't just Rosamund Pike sat wt a chair reading 2 chapters a week
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Mar 26, 2024 17:07
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Guest director Sam Raimi for Dumai's Wells.
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Mar 26, 2024 17:12
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Yeah Callandor/Tear gets shelved for a while but I still hope it happens. Rand trying to resurrect the one woman who died after getting it is such an important character beat imo. It's him testing his powers to bend reality with good intention but those pave the road to Hell etc
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Mar 26, 2024 17:18
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Rarity posted:Very mad that the show isn't just Rosamund Pike sat wt a chair reading 2 chapters a week I mean I'd watch that
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Mar 26, 2024 17:26
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mastajake posted:Guest director Sam Raimi for Dumai's Wells. Sold! Bruce Campbell as Taim.
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Mar 26, 2024 17:38
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calandryll posted:Sold! Bruce Campbell as Taim. That's fantastic casting. Let the Lord of Chaos rule. Groovy.
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Mar 26, 2024 17:43
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Callandor is important but not irreplacable. It's most important use was as a trap to lure Moridin into a circle. Even in the context of the books they didn't need it in order to form that circle with Moridin, they needed it because Moridin would never link up with them willingly. I wouldn't be surprised if they cut it because they felt it was a distraction from the main point, but a shining crystal sword is a tempting visual so maybe not 
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Mar 26, 2024 17:44
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It also plays into the theme of the Wheel what with it being the Sword in the Stone
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Mar 26, 2024 17:47
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ragnarokette posted:Yeah Callandor/Tear gets shelved for a while but I still hope it happens. Rand trying to resurrect the one woman who died after getting it is such an important character beat imo. It's him testing his powers to bend reality with good intention but those pave the road to Hell etc It's a character touchpoint, bookends with his attempt to use the sword in Illian and killing his own troops. Rand being necessarily consumed by power is prob the most interesting theme of the series, and the idea of cutting that out makes me wonder what else even WoT could even say as a piece of fiction.
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Mar 26, 2024 17:48
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Callandor was something that RJ thought was important early on with all the Arthuriana stuff he was putting in, but when he realized he had
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Mar 26, 2024 18:03
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I mean we already cut the prologue halls of lightning so why even do the sequel halls of lightning? The show is so trash at hitting these long form cyclical big moments. I like a lot of the details but they keep missing the forest in order to show us a perfect bonsai.
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Mar 26, 2024 18:17
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Looks like we're getting an aged up Latra in season 3 https://www.wotseries.com/2024/03/26/ania-marson-to-appear-season3-wheel-of-time/
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Mar 26, 2024 18:29
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pik_d posted:Looks like we're getting an aged up Latra in season 3 I'd say that's confirmation of the glass columns!
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Mar 26, 2024 18:30
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I imagine they'll come back to Tear/Callandor after Rand gets the support of the Aiel. Book 2 and 3 are so similar to each other (band breaks up, band has separate adventures, band reconvenes just in time for rand to fulfill a prophecy and to get another item of power that won't matter again for a long time) I can see why they want to skip it for now.
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Mar 26, 2024 18:30
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I'd say that's confirmation of the glass columns! I really like this and am now fully on board
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Mar 26, 2024 19:13
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Shageletic posted:It's a character touchpoint, bookends with his attempt to use the sword in Illian and killing his own troops. Rand being necessarily consumed by power is prob the most interesting theme of the series, and the idea of cutting that out makes me wonder what else even WoT could even say as a piece of fiction. You can very easily do the consumed by power, killing his own troops, etc., without a whiff of Callandor as a thing.
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Mar 26, 2024 19:24
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Shageletic posted:It's a character touchpoint, bookends with his attempt to use the sword in Illian and killing his own troops. Rand being necessarily consumed by power is prob the most interesting theme of the series, and the idea of cutting that out makes me wonder what else even WoT could even say as a piece of fiction. There are many more examples of him being consumed with power that have nothing to do with Callandor. In fact the biggest example of this theme is the Choden Kal. And the first time he uses Choden Kal, Callandor is being used by an underling as a side quest. Callandor is a cool literary bit about the subversion of a specific myth, but like, that isn't the only example of it and focusing so much on it is really focusing on one tree in a huge rear end forest.
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Mar 26, 2024 19:35
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I've been cool with most of the changes so far, but I'll be honest, I'll be a bit bummed if Callandor doesn't show up. It doesn't even have to come from Tear, honestly, but it's just a great magical object and I love it. Not a huge deal, but I would be disappointed if it's never here.
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Mar 26, 2024 20:02
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The Callandor discussion feels a bit like the Ship of Theseus as applied to Wheel of Time. If that were the only change to the story, it would still be the Wheel of Time. But if you remove Callandor and the Stone of Tear; if you give Perrin a wife for the sole purpose of having him murder her in the first episode; if you take away the scene in Caemlyn where Elaida realizes what Rand is/will become; if you make Ingtar an honorable character who lives and dies by the Borderlands code; if Lan doesnt spend months training Rand and giving him advice about how Being A Man means being Hard All The Time How many changes can you make and still call it a Wheel of Time show? Maybe by the end of the series any/all of these changes would circle back and make sense in totality, but youve got to get to the end of the series to make that call. Right now were being handed an increasing list of modifications, each one possibly workable in isolation, and told to trust the showrunners. I can understand why people are drawing a line at different places and saying this is too much.
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Mar 26, 2024 20:17
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Grundulum posted:The Callandor discussion feels a bit like the Ship of Theseus as applied to Wheel of Time. If that were the only change to the story, it would still be the Wheel of Time. But if you remove Callandor and the Stone of Tear; if you give Perrin a wife for the sole purpose of having him murder her in the first episode; if you take away the scene in Caemlyn where Elaida realizes what Rand is/will become; if you make Ingtar an honorable character who lives and dies by the Borderlands code; if Lan doesnt spend months training Rand and giving him advice about how Being A Man means being Hard All The Time How many changes can you make and still call it a Wheel of Time show? No no no, you see, books and TV are different and that completely justifies everything. You couldn't possibly make a TV version of this story without all of these specific changes; it simply cannot be.
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Mar 26, 2024 21:47
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The glowy sword should be on television Glowy swords are fuxkin' rad
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Mar 26, 2024 21:51
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