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Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

I've got no interest in standalone VR, and will almost certainly be using a headset for only PC gaming, most of which is going to be stuff like Elite:Dangerous and other seated experiences. I genuinely think the Rift S would be better for my needs.

Is there any appreciable chance of a Rift S price cut in the near future, or should I just see if I can get one cheap off someone upgrading to a Quest?

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Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

The Fresnel lenses provide all the lens flare I need.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Alright, still pretty new to VR so this is going to be a dumb question.

Is there any trick to getting a headset to not slip without having it so tight that it gives me a headache? I wear glasses and I have a Rift S. I think the IPD range is fine (62) from my admittedly-rather-crude measurement with a ruler in the mirror. When I'm nudging the headset around on my face, there's a tiny spot where everything is clear, and I'd love to see everything in VR that way, but even the tiniest amount of slip from moving my head seems to degrade the view noticeably.

It stays on my face and doesn't feel like it's moving at all, but the "sweet spot" for the view not being slightly blurry seems pretty small, and I find myself adjusting the headset fairly regularly- mostly vertically, but sometimes horizontally. I've especially noticed it in H3VR, in that my dominant eye (right) is usually pretty blurry when I close my left eye to try and look down the iron sights. If I nudge the headset to the left, both eyes are sharp, but it doesn't stay there.

Apologies if this is an "explain like I'm five" level of simplicity, but any advice would be appreciated.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Lemming posted:

You don't have "this is real life" circuits hardwired into your brain, you do have "this is a recognizable human face" circuits hardwired into your brain. I think VR is going to open up new questions in the "fantasy vs reality" space because of how truly convincing it is on a subconscious level.

I'm not arguing if you kill people in games you're gonna be a serial killer, but shooting someone in VR is fundamentally different from pressing the left mouse button to shoot someone in the center of your monitor

I think I agree. Honestly, I still feel a little offput even with the hotdog men, sneaking up and shooting them in the back of the head, or putting a bullet into one that's gone down but isn't dead yet. As goofy as the hotdogs in H3VR are, it's distinctly more immersive to handle a gun in VR than with a mouse and keyboard, and I would feel pretty uncomfortable pointing my controller at the head of a realistically-modeled human and pulling the trigger.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Wanted to bring my own VR recommendation to the thread.

Space Engine ($24.99 on Steam) is essentially a virtual planetarium/universe explorer program. It's been in development for years by a one-man team, and the first full retail release was a few months ago.

It models the universe at real scale, using astronomical catalogs to place real objects at the correct positions, with the number one goal being astronomical accuracy and realism. Procedural objects (planets, stars, star clusters, nebulae, galaxies, etc) are generated to fill in the rest of the universe. If you want to see what the sky looks like from a planet around a black hole, or that you could pluck a galaxy from the air between your fingers, this is the one for you. You can fly to basically any object you see, or use the "go-to" shortcut. You can change time speed to see orbital motion or the rotation of a planet, and you can use the "god scale" gesture, using the grip buttons and starting with your arms out wide and bringing them together, to make things appear smaller (and the reverse for them to seem bigger).

I took a few screenshots in VR earlier today.






So, despite the amount of time I've spent in it, I need to give some caveats:
  • I will fully admit that it's not really a "game". It's chill as hell to explore the universe, though.
  • If you have ample disk space, I would recommend downloading the previous (free) version, 0.9.8.0, and exploring a little bit in non-VR mode to see if this is your thing. It's not incredibly user-friendly, and you'll probably want to get a general feel for the program and how it works before trying to jump into VR.
  • There is apparently a more 'guided' experience version called Overview, which is available on the Oculus store. I have not tried this myself, but if anyone has, please let me know how it is.
  • While the planets in the Solar System are fairly blurry at ground-level as they use real data, procedural planets are much more detailed.
  • It can be fairly buggy at times, and can crash without warning. You'll almost certainly see performance hitches, especially when rendering landscapes or nebulae up close.
  • You'll want to start in Vive or Oculus mode from the Steam dialog that pops up when you launch the game. As you can probably expect, launching the wrong one will leave you with controls that don't really work.
  • You probably want to bump up the controller sensitivity for stereobase (the scale-changing gesture) on the right hand and velocity on the left hand- otherwise it takes a while to get moving.

All of that said- it's still pretty cool if you like space/astronomy, and incredibly impressive for what is basically a one-man project.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JRbGcyPUnk

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

While I haven't used the Quest, I bought a Rift S not too long ago (month and a half ish?) and I have zero qualms with it. It's a drat good headset (in my admittedly limited experience).

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Combat Pretzel posted:

This is not true VR

Until there are display headsets that can do at least 1000 Hz with almost instant pixel response time and retina resolution that close to our eyes this is sand in our eyes, VR set with display port 1.2 is a joke but i guess that's what valve considers its customers a joke. I hope other digital content distribution platforms arise from your ashes lol.

Headsets? Ugh. Call me when there's contact lenses with VR capabilities.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

If you're into space, gonna recommend Space Engine again- although it's less of a "game" than it is just sightseeing the universe.

You could also do Google Earth VR, or just sit on a range and do some plinking with H3VR.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Turin Turambar posted:


-I don’t know how the hell there is no button to activate the pass-through cameras!

Unless it’s different for the Quest, there should be an option in the Oculus “experimental” menu to make double-clicking the oculus button a shortcut for just showing you the passthrough.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Nalin posted:

You can't really just say one is better than the other when both are a series of tradeoffs against each other. It is best to learn about each headset fully and decide which one has the tradeoffs you are more comfortable with.

Rift S:
o Sacrifices contrast for a sharper image (has more subpixels for sharper text).
o Requires a free DisplayPort / Mini DisplayPort connector on your GPU.
o PC VR only.
+ Has 5 cameras for improved tracking volume with less deadzones.
- Lenses have a fixed 63.5 mm IPD. How this affects you depends on biology. It will either not bother you at all, or it may give you excessive eye strain or headaches.
- Halo strap makes it more difficult to use custom audio drivers.
+ Halo strap seen as more comfortable by some.

Quest:
o Has superior contrast levels but less subpixels resulting in less sharp text.
+ Has a mobile SoC allowing untethered, standalone gameplay. Some games even have cross-buy between the mobile and PC stores.
- Only has 4 cameras for tracking resulting in more deadzones than the Rift S. Usually not an issue, though.
+ Can be used as a PC VR headset using a USB 3.0 cable at the expense of worse image quality compared to Rift S. Currently only officially works with NVIDIA GTX 1060 GPUs and above. AMD support spotty. USB 3.0 cables generally aren't as long as the Rift S cable leading to reliance on active extension cables, which may prevent the ability of the headset to keep its battery charged while playing.
+ Mechanical IPD slider allows 58-72mm range, resulting in a sharper picture and less eye related issues.
- Front heavy which results in people modifying their setup to add counterweights and whatnot.

This summary should be in the OP.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

To help with learning guns, you can turn an empty hand towards you (as if opening the menu) and it will tell you what gun you’re holding in your other hand.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Oh man, now I’m thinking about a Cities Skylines VR mod. Changing the scale of your view, walking around your city in first person or poking at it like a toy train model. With included kaiju mode, of course.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

SCheeseman posted:

Anyone want to add any more games to the second post? My tastes are pretty specific so I'm not great at covering the entire breadth of what is available, so I'm happy to hear some suggestions.

I know I'm not the only person in here who's recommended Space Engine as a pretty decent low-stress experience. Not a game, but exploring the universe for $25 is pretty rad.

Luneshot posted:

Wanted to bring my own VR recommendation to the thread.

Space Engine ($24.99 on Steam) is essentially a virtual planetarium/universe explorer program. It's been in development for years by a one-man team, and the first full retail release was a few months ago.

It models the universe at real scale, using astronomical catalogs to place real objects at the correct positions, with the number one goal being astronomical accuracy and realism. Procedural objects (planets, stars, star clusters, nebulae, galaxies, etc) are generated to fill in the rest of the universe. If you want to see what the sky looks like from a planet around a black hole, or that you could pluck a galaxy from the air between your fingers, this is the one for you. You can fly to basically any object you see, or use the "go-to" shortcut. You can change time speed to see orbital motion or the rotation of a planet, and you can use the "god scale"/stereobase gesture, using the grip buttons and starting with your arms out wide and bringing them together, to make things appear smaller (and the reverse for them to seem bigger).

I took a few screenshots in VR earlier today.






So, despite the amount of time I've spent in it, I need to give some caveats:
  • I will fully admit that it's not really a "game". It's chill as hell to explore the universe, though.
  • If you have ample disk space, I can recommend downloading the previous (free) version, 0.9.8.0, and exploring a little bit in non-VR mode to see if this is your thing. You can also use the non-VR tutorials, because you may want to get a general feel for the program and how it works before trying to jump into VR.
  • There is apparently a more 'guided' experience version called Overview, which is available on the Oculus store. I have not tried this myself, but if anyone has, please let me know how it is.
  • While the planets in the Solar System are fairly blurry at ground-level as they use real data, procedural planets are much more detailed.
  • It can be fairly buggy at times, and can crash without warning. You'll almost certainly see performance hitches, especially when rendering landscapes or nebulae up close.
  • You'll want to start in Vive or Oculus mode from the Steam dialog that pops up when you launch the game. As you can probably expect, launching the wrong one will leave you with controls that don't really work.
  • You probably want to bump up the controller sensitivity for stereobase (the scale-changing gesture) on the right hand and velocity on the left hand- otherwise it takes a while to get moving.

All of that said- it's still pretty cool if you like space/astronomy, and incredibly impressive for what is basically a one-man project.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Is there any reason you couldn't somehow manually move the Rift S lenses closer/farther apart to match your IPD?

You'd have to physically modify the headset, but does the software/LCD display make some sort of assumptions about the lens position that would totally break image matching/focusing/whatever if you moved them a few mm?

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Makes sense. It’s not a huge problem for me so I was just curious.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

57. It's noticeable with the Rift S, but not enough to be a dealbreaker.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Oh, thank God. Sniping is literally impossible in that game if you have shaky hands, the controllers are insanely sensitive to small movement.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Having tried out the new bolt-action style, it's pretty rad! But distressingly easy to accidentally eject rounds when you're not trying to.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

sethsez posted:

So here's where VR is right now:

All relevant headsets support full hand tracking and head movement.


Wait a minute, when did the Rift S get hand tracking?

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

What’s a good racing/car game for VR? My level of car simulation experience is roughly “Forza Motorsport with a controller” but I’m interested in trying driving out.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

For chill-out experiences I am contractually obligated by being a space nerd to recommend Space Engine again. It's on sale for $20 on Steam at the moment.

Luneshot posted:

Wanted to bring my own VR recommendation to the thread.

Space Engine ($24.99 on Steam) is essentially a virtual planetarium/universe explorer program. It's been in development for years by what is basically a one-man team, and the first full retail release was about a year ago.

It models the universe at real scale, using astronomical catalogs to place real objects at the correct positions, with the number one goal being astronomical accuracy and realism. Procedural objects (planets, stars, star clusters, nebulae, galaxies, etc) are generated to fill in the rest of the universe. If you want to see what the sky looks like from a planet around a black hole, or that you could pluck a galaxy from the air between your fingers, this is the one for you. You can fly to basically any object you see, or use the "go-to" shortcut. You can change time speed to see orbital motion or the rotation of a planet, and you can use the "god scale"/"stereobase" gesture, using the grip buttons and starting with your arms out wide and bringing them together, to make things appear smaller (and the reverse for them to seem bigger). It's also fully playable in non-VR.

I took a few screenshots in VR earlier today.






So, despite the amount of time I've spent in it, I need to give some caveats:
  • I will fully admit that it's not really a "game". It's chill as hell to explore the universe, though.
  • If you have ample disk space, it's possible to download the previous (free) version, 0.9.8.0, and explore a little bit in non-VR mode to see if this is your thing first.
  • There is apparently a more 'guided' experience version called Overview, which is available on the Oculus store. Impressions from other people seem to be mostly along the lines of "just get Space Engine."
  • While the planets in the Solar System are fairly blurry at ground-level as they use real data, procedural planets are much more detailed.
  • It can be fairly buggy at times, and can crash without warning. You'll almost certainly see performance hitches, especially when rendering landscapes or nebulae up close. Lowering the landscape and nebula render speed will really help, but be warned in advance that it's pretty CPU-heavy.
  • You'll want to start in Vive or Oculus mode from the Steam dialog that pops up when you launch the game. As you can probably expect, launching the wrong one will leave you with controls that don't really work.
  • You probably want to bump up the controller sensitivity for stereobase (the scale-changing gesture) on the right hand and velocity on the left hand- otherwise it takes a while to get moving.

All of that said- it's still pretty cool if you like space/astronomy, and incredibly impressive for what is mostly a one-man project.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Nocheez posted:

I have the free space engine and am pretty much done with it. Is the upgrade to the paid version worth it for the VR experience?

The VR really does wonders for the immersion, occasional lag notwithstanding, and really helps with the sense of scale. It's definitely a step up from the old free version especially when it comes to certain graphics (nebulae and planet terrain up close, especially). There are also the spaceships if you have a penchant for orbital mechanics, but I haven't even bothered with those in VR. There's no cockpit view or anything.

That said, it's still fundamentally the same experience, so at its core its still just a fly-around-and-look-at-space-simulator with some things bolted on around the edges. It's cool, but if it's :10bux::10bux: cool depends on how much you like space. If the free version didn't really grab you with "I wish I was standing on this planet and looking around in VR" then it might not be worth it to you.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Deeturbomber posted:

I actually meant the hand-straps to allow the whole not-having-to-grip-the-controllers thing since it was mentioned a few posts earlier. I probably should be looking into that as well, though. Right now my priorities are glasses spacer, prescription inserts, controller straps, and then probably anything else after.

I use the AMVR ones. Work great, a bit of a pain to change batteries but otherwise infinitely better than no hand straps at all.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

sigher posted:

The old thread was by me:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3551191

I was thinking about reviving it but the original threads never got much traction; I wouldn't mind doing it again if there's enough interest.

I'll vote for reviving it, I've enjoyed Space Engine for years but never knew there was a thread.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014


This was definitely worth the watch, thanks for this.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

veni veni veni posted:

I don’t expect a bright future for it support wise but the idea that they would just brick it for absolutely no reason seems ludicrous to me.

never stopped Google

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Dumb question. I have an IPD kinda on the edge of the Rift S range (~57-58mm) and I definitely notice it. Would prescription lens inserts with my actual IPD make a significant difference from the stock lenses, or does it not matter since the Rift S has a single-panel display?

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

I really hope that sometime in the next 2 years someone figures out how to run the Rift S without the Oculus software.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

On the list of “people I would never accept a brain chip from”, Elon Musk is definitely in the top three.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Anybody have experience with VorpX? How well does it do the job of translating a flatscreen game to VR?

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

SCheeseman posted:

I played Superhot on a basketball court. Kinda broke the game, but it was a lot of fun.

Do the lighthouses have enough range to properly track on a basketball court?

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Rift S.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

The one caveat to H3VR is that in its current state it is not very user-friendly. The dev plans to implement a streamlined control scheme and a proper tutorial before the end of the year, though.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Honestly, I usually play Take and Hold with spawnlockable ammo, and when I was first getting started I usually went with 50K health. Nothing wrong with starting easy to get the hang of it before turning up the difficulty at your own pace; even with those settings it took me a while to consistently clear all five holds.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Although hopefully the planned tutorial will actually explain some of this stuff when it gets implemented, I'm going to repeat (and add to) some of the stuff already mentioned, so it's all in one post:

The Stuff That Isn't Really Explained At All About H3VR Take And Hold


  • Start with the "Beginner Blake" character, recently added like...last week? Fewer enemies, streamlined weapon progression, and more time to complete each hold.

  • Double check the orange case when you first spawn; some weapons will randomly spawn a sight attachment. Remember to turn off the safety (default: left on your right-hand thumbstick) any time you pick up a gun. This advice does not apply to real life.

  • The radar (by default located on your left hand) shows you where the points of interest are; blue are the 'store' points, the red H is the next hold point, red dots are enemies.

  • Enemy guns can be picked up and used in a pinch, but have limited ammunition and are not reloadable. You can pick up and throw back enemy grenades if you're quick about it.

  • If you have "spawnlockable" ammo turned on, this means that you have effectively infinite ammo (however, this also means that the game will spawn more enemies!). Place a full magazine into one of the slots on your chest. Hold your controller over that slot. Press down on the thumbstick or touchpad. This should make the slot glow blue. Now if you grab the magazine, another should appear in its place. The same process for a firearm should make the slot glow green; if you let go of the gun, it will automatically snap back into that slot so you don't lose it. If you do it again, it turns the spawnlock/holster off.

  • In many cases, you will have a gun that takes "loose" ammo (revolvers, shotguns, grenade launchers, etc.) You can set it so that your spawnlockable ammo will spawn a handful. Hover over a slot with a single bullet/shell in it, while also holding another bullet/shell. Press up on the touchpad/thumbstick. This should add your held bullet/shell to the slot; so now, if you were to grab the contents of that slot, you would grab two bullets/shells. Repeat; it usually stacks up to about...six, I think?

  • The gray boxes in the blue 'store' points can be destroyed, and can give a health pickup, an extra override token, or nothing at all. This is maybe the only use I've found for melee weapons: breaking these without making too much noise.

  • The blue 'store' locations always have one 'shop' terminal, and one of either a 'recycle' terminal or a 'ammo' terminal.

  • The shop terminal usually gives you three options: a gun, an attachment, and either a grenade or a power-up. The dice icon allows you to re-roll the category shown on the shop terminal at the cost of one override token. Gun categories are representative icons only; if it shows you an assault rifle, you'll probably get an assault rifle, but there's no guarantee that it's a modern assault rifle.

  • The recycle terminal allows you to recycle an unwanted gun for one override token. For the ammo terminal, you can place your gun (or a magazine) on the shelf, and press either the 'bullet' or 'magazine' icon to spawn a round/fill that magazine with ammunition.

  • I recommend visiting the ammo terminals even if you have spawnlockable ammo, because each intermission between hold points has a different, randomly chosen set of ammunition variants for almost every kind of ammo in the game. For example, if you place a 9mm handgun magazine on the shelf and press the magazine icon, it will fill that magazine with whatever random 9mm variant is currently in play, random per terminal (not per use): anything from regular FMJ to hollow-points to incendiary rounds. If you get a variant you like (and you have spawnlocking turned on), then lock that magazine in your inventory and congrats, now you have infinite incendiary ammo (or whatever). This is especially useful for weapons like shotguns if you start with an ammo type you don't like.
    Pointy solid copper tip: standard full metal jacket
    Hollow tip: hollow-point (good against unprotected hot dog, not so good against armor)
    Green or red tip: tracer round
    Black tip: armor piercing round
    Blue tip: incendiary round
    White tip: armor piercing + incendiary round
    (For handgun ammunition, any of the above but with a steel case instead of brass is a +P round; they're more powerful.)

  • Silencer attachments must be 'twisted' onto the barrel. Muzzle attachments should just snap on. The silencers and muzzle attachments work for most (but not all) guns, and will automatically adapt to the weapon in question.
  • Rail attachments (scopes, lasers, etc.) can be removed by holding the attachment with the grip button and pressing down on the thumbstick/touchpad.
  • Lasers, flashlights, and other such attachments can be turned on/off by holding the attachment with the grip button and pressing up on the thumbstick/touchpad.

  • You can pick up the riot shields that enemies drop and use them yourself. If you're the "turtling"/hide-in-a-corner type, this can provide invaluable cover.

  • The default inventory configuration has a hidden slot over your right shoulder. Some of the largest weapons (like the rocket launchers) can only be placed in this slot.

Luneshot fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Nov 10, 2020

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Neddy Seagoon posted:

It's always worth throwing a magazine at the ammo terminal, because the type it'll give for each ammo type is random (not per use, but per terminal).

What you really want to hope for are silver-cased 9mm/45 P+ ammo, or the white-tipped ammo (incendary+Armor Piercing).

Updated the post with a listing of common ammo types.

Turin Turambar posted:

Thannks for the post. Anton really needs to use focus testing with total noobs , and see how they totally fumble in his game, to really learn how it doesn't need a simple tutorial but much, much more work.

Yeah. I love Take and Hold and I do recommend it, but the absolute nicest thing I can say about it is that it's "obtuse".

Luneshot fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Nov 10, 2020

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

8one6 posted:

You know how 2016 is pretty much ancient history as far as VR is concerned? Well check out this VR system from loving 1995!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0n5B3fl-bU



and yet it still has better IPD adjustment than some of the major headsets today

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

I think if you find yourself interested in playing them, you should do so, but if I were to require one game, it'd probably be HL2.

If you go into them understanding that they're not modern games, you'll be fine. They are products of their particular eras in gaming, but what made them so highly-acclaimed is that they represented an ambitious, innovative take on what FPS games were like in 1998 and 2004, respectively. Some gameplay sections haven't aged well, but they're certainly not unplayable. If you try Half Life 1 and find it too old for you, then try Black Mesa, which is a remake in the HL2 engine.

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Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Even as the thread’s resident SpaceEngine Appreciator I can fully admit that it’s mostly a pretty sights simulator. It’s not a game, nor even a particularly interactive experience unless you really like pointing and clicking on tiny dots.

If the desktop version doesn’t catch your interest, the VR version probably won’t either.

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