Jay-V posted:

OK guys but what if Lube Man is actually Angela's husband and he's just trying to look out for her


i do like the call out that eggs, clones, symmetry, rorschachs etc. are all linked, but I don't think the 7K is clones. just weird that every single episode so far has had a pointed reference to eggs

No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:

Re: speculation about where the plot's going, I'm with "time machine". I've been thinking it since episode 1, and while my initial notion was that that would be Veidt's plan, I think it's actually Trieu's (as suggested a few pages back). She wants to change the outcome of the Vietnam War, and in this universe the way you do that is by undoing Dr. Manhattan. As pointed out a few pages back, tachyons are theoretical particles that could travel backward in time, and they also just so happen to be Manhattan's vulnerability in the original book - what enables Veidt's dimensional attack scheme. It's absolutely logical that Veidt's interest in tachyon research would only grow, and that's also why Trieu is interested in Veidt.

Everybody here wants to change the past, and I think Trieu, Veidt, and Manhattan's own desires all probably synch up whether they see it that way or not: she wants to unmake Dr. Manhattan, Veidt wants to take his place, and Dr. Manhattan just wants to have died a normal man (out of a mixture of both the desire to undo his own impact on the world and a selfish death wish). All three of them can sort of get what they want simultaneously.

Will wants to stop the bombing of Black Wall Street, but in the end he'll take Angela's side over Trieu's and they'll prevent the time machine from being used. Angela will be tempted to use it to prevent Rorschach's journal from being found, which would stop the Seventh Kavalry, undo the weirdo masked vigilante police state, and in turn prevent the ascension of Keene (because he's manipulating all the poo poo in Tulsa), at the cost of burying the truth about Veidt forever. She won't. This is a story about bringing the past into the open, so that we can confront uncomfortable truths and forge a better future - which is why it's about Black Wall Street, Vietnam, and the false dichotomy between conservative, anti-government white supremacists and unaccountable, authoritarian police.

I'll have a large fry with that, also

feedmyleg posted:

Harlock posted:

Veidt: Rorsach the only way for this to work is you cant tell anyone


Also Veidt: *on video* Anyways Mr. President I made a giant fake squid

JethroMcB posted:

According to Peteypedia an overdose of Nostalgia can trigger, among many other possible side effects, "explosive flatulence"

MaoistBanker posted:

A small but crucially important point about Rorschach's journal. Cause people on message boards are like "Rorschach mailed the details of Veidt's plan!" . No, Rorschach strongly SUGGESTED that Veidt was behind the death of Comedian, framing of Dr. Manhattan, etc. He didn't learn about a giant squid until after he mailed his journal and departed for Antarctica with Nite Owl II.

Sleeveless posted:

Which makes the people complaining about how the expository video in this episode is unrealistic or treating the audience like idiots even funnier, being an egomaniac who loves explaining his plans is kind of Veidt's whole thing.

Mantis42 posted:

Well they would have found out pretty quickly anyways.

Veidt's a megalomaniac but I don't believe circa 1985 Ozy would be so cavalier as the video to Redford.

Madurai posted:

Yeah, IIRC Ganymeade is the only Galilean moon that doesn't have lethal rad levels.

Unkempt posted:

Maybe this will work:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.arts.comics/watchmen%7Csort:date/rec.arts.comics/8i-CwZGRg10/I_gwlGuMoYUJ

literally the only post I can find archived from when it was being published.

Usenet archives are poo poo now. Google ruined them for some reason.

Chev posted:

It has been established in the comic Veidt has a good track record with bullets, maybe his captor took that to heart

Ugly In The Morning posted:

That’s probably one of the things he had to work with Redford with, now that I think of it. The pamphlet in peteypedia says the squid falls are worldwide so there has to be quite a bit of infrastructure involved.

Milo and POTUS posted:

We never once see Rorschach take a poo poo in the comics.

Edge & Christian posted:

This is true. People did bitch about it in contemporary discussions, and comics creators have pointed to these delays for the past 30+ years as a hand-waving "well you're mad my book is late, would you have yelled at Moore and Gibbons?"

When people dug up evidence that plenty of people did yell at them, the argument shifts to, "well aren't you glad they didn't listen to you and let it take as long as it had to take to put together such a great book?"

Which is valid, though the delays on Watchmen amounted to a twelve issue monthly series taking about thirteen months to come out. A couple of issues slipped on the production schedule by a couple of weeks, and there was an extra month gap between issues nine and ten (there was no issue in March 1987) so it's kind of rich to use this as a defense for books that are delayed for months or years.
This isn't very true, Alan Moore had done a bunch of well-received UK comics and his Swamp Thing (which launched a few years before Watchmen did) won basically every industry award possible three years running as Best Series/Best Writer/etc.

In terms of comics press, Amazing Heroes dedicated their cover to Watchmen before the first issue debuted, calling it the most anticipated book of the year and described the preview they received as "a milieu containing an unprecedented depth of background for American comics." Both the interviews appearing advance of the book from Moore and Gibbons and the critics/interviewers' comments were setting expectations sky-high for the book.
I had to look this up and I see that Len Wein made a comment that was interpreted this way:


Not a lot of this makes sense unless it was very early discussions, every issue of Watchmen is a 32 page comic book with zero ads and somewhere between 26 (#1) and 32 (#12) pages of comic story, with the remaining 0-6 pages filled with the clippings/book excerpts/etc.

Both Moore in 1986 and Wein in 2009 discuss the idea of having a letter column and later scrapping said idea, but by the time it was in production Watchmen was already a deluxe-printing direct sales only comic that was retailing for $1.50 an issue, and they'd done ad-free 'prestige' comics for sales in comics shops pretty consistently for a couple of years, be it reprints of Swamp Thing/New Gods/Green Lantern & Green Arrow, or original series like Howard Chaykin's The Shadow or Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

I can believe that they thought they'd run a couple pages of letter columns/interviews with Moore/Gibbons or sketchbooks or whatever in the back instead of "in-universe" stuff, but if they're producing 26-28 pages of comics for a book with 32 pages (the average comic book would have 19-22 story pages at the time) they were never planning on running ads once the comic went into production. In interviews given mid-production of the comic, Moore and Gibbons describe putting together the back matter because they thought it would be cooler than self-congratulatory interviews or boring developmental sketches or whatever would be there otherwise.

Binary Logic posted:

Thanks for the reminder, I haven't thought about that in decades.



Nooooo!!!!!

Martman posted:

Oh geez, weren't there even trucks that said "F. T. and Sons" or something that were likely his? That would be amazing.
[/

[quote="Martman" post="500298090"]
Oh geez, weren't there even trucks that said "F. T. and Sons" or something that were likely his? That would be amazing.

Bushido Brown posted:

So do we think that Trieu mind controlled Veidt into going into exile?

Colonel Whitey posted:

My only problem with the episode is, again, there was no Lube Man

Herostratus posted:

Will / HJ is the last surviving minuteman, right?

Also, if the opening scene is supposed to represent real events, there's some interesting parallels with Will / HJ killing the FBI agents in the 40s VS his granddaughter being targeted by the FBI in the present day. Also the implication that the FBI may have murdered Will's lover.

massive spider posted:

In the original Ozymandias held the toy rights to Moloch.

I imagine that after they've retired he knocks on their door and asks if they want to cash in.

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

What fell from space onto the farm formerly owned by the Clarks?

Polar bear?

tin can made man posted:

On reflection, Angela HAS spent the entire series either obviously lying or deflecting the truth; originally this seemed to just be related to police work and her general reticence over a traumatic past, then her being on the fringes of Wills great conspiracy, but I think on a rewatch she'll definitely track as a person who's keeping the world's most important secret and is instantly hostile to ANY attempt to know more about her or especially her family life.

Also, while thinking about that I realized that Angela's literal first appearance is her cracking an egg

Mike the TV posted:

Trieu knows the 7th Kavalry's plans, knows that it will be done within an hour, has the resources to stop them, but chooses not to. I guess it was all a long-shot plan to get Dr. Manhattan out of hiding.

And I don't see how the Kavalry would know about Cal unless they were tipped off by Trieu or Will.

Bread Set Jettison posted:

I love that FOREVER I thought Angela was a “knows as much as the audience” character and has been hiding this poo poo since ep 1. loving love it.

A few eps ago Grampa Justice said that in 3 days she’ll find out she’s been betrayed or something to that nature. VERY curious what that is

KoRMaK posted:

I mean the question is, can he appear in physical form to times before he was alive as a human or before he was Manhattaned?

I would assume so, and a lot of the show is going to be this

so if you have a hard time being imaginative your going to be surprised or assert prematurely what Dr M can or cannot do. So, the premise of them killing him is like almost non-sense, but we really don't know yet.

And so, when we look back after the season we're going to have a lot of moments that seemed odd but make complete sense.


Which makes me revisit Topher, does he have a loving Manhattan ring in his head? Seems too far fetched but that loving castle toy is like screaming something

Mike the TV posted:

Dr. Manhattan is way less omniscient than he's given credit. While he's able to bring awesome new technology to the world of the 80's, he also has to do the experiments to figure it out. He doesn't just 'know' it all already. He gets muddled when dealing with human relationships. He gets fooled into believing that he caused the cancer of his friends and colleagues. He gets tricked by Veidt, several times actually, and in the end gets tricked into siding with him.

Nephthys posted:

If anyone is interested DC is doing a cross-over where Dr Manhatten travels to the DC universe and he gets into a fight with like half the Justice League and kicks their asses. At one point they manage to "kill" him through focus fire and he just reforms his body and whoops them again.

The only thing I could think of would be some sort of perpetual Intrinsic field removal device. Maybe the cage they're building traps his particles in and they constantly blast him apart.

Mike the TV posted:

Beware the Cyclops

Douche Wolf 89 posted:

There already was a Dr. Manhattan used for white supremacy; Jon Osterman. Racist white president Richard Nixon used him to conquer Vietnam. It took years for him to become disillusioned, so white power Manhattan could probably be relied on to at least eliminate/enslave all non-whites before pissing off to Pluto or whatever.

I have a weird feeling it's going to be Looking Glass saying that for some reason
VVVVVV

Hilario Baldness posted:

Just that Doomsday Clock will probably end in Superman beating Dr. Manhattan

AccountSupervisor posted:

Veidt is a old crazy man whose been trapped in a nightmare scenario for like 4 years at this point and has absolutely lost his marbles. Hes not the same Veidt you read in the comics and its absolutely sensible hes become this weird old nut in the time between. Its not hard to believe hed rather fart in the face of this bizarre situation hes found himself than repent for his crimes given hes basically been living in a twisted cartoon reality for years.

Its incredible and about as megalomaniacal crazy old man as it gets.

Xanderkish posted:

Like every other word out of Veidt's mouth in the comics is about how great he is and how much he loves to suck his own dick. Maybe Rorschach was wrong about him being gay and the "boys" folder on his computer was just a bunch of tasteful nudes of himself.

feedmyleg posted:

Agent Blake would be a hell of a lot of fun to get drunk with until the 5th or 6th drink where she gets ugly and verbally abusive toward you.


So, Batman.