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Homeless Friend posted:Voting is ignoring the problem, its why it only rolls around every so often. It's the car freshener of this demon cracker empire. If you have strategic reasons for voting, go wild. If not, who cares. How is voting ignoring the problem? You can vote and still organise/agitate at the same time, you don't need to do one or the other.
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Oct 25, 2019 05:58
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Homeless Friend posted:the harm mitigation act of 1964 And yet. LBJ was lovely in a lot of ways but p sure Hunter S Thompson is still an rear end in a top hat for having no preference between him and loving Goldwater. And for inspiring a generation of hipster college dudes.
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Oct 25, 2019 05:59
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yronic heroism posted:Except there are plenty of actually marginalized people who vote for harm mitigation under your scenario and are fed up with self appointed leftist white dudes who won’t lift a finger to do that. Who are you or I to tell them that’s wrong? You’re imagining a scenario where the protest voter is the most oppressed person in the room but it could easily be the opposite. Lmao we got a live one
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Oct 25, 2019 06:08
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Anarchist Mae posted:How is voting ignoring the problem? You can vote and still organise/agitate at the same time, you don't need to do one or the other. One of these things is much more important than the other. Voting is ascribed a moral weightiness that doesn't exist, and will never exist, because votes don't challenge the status quo.
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Oct 25, 2019 06:10
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yronic heroism posted:Except there are plenty of actually marginalized people who vote for harm mitigation under your scenario and are fed up with self appointed leftist white dudes who won’t lift a finger to do that. Who are you or I to tell them that’s wrong? No one is telling them that it's wrong, just ineffective. yronic heroism posted:You’re imagining a scenario where the protest voter is the most oppressed person in the room but it could easily be the opposite. And you're imaging a scenario where every protest voter is a smug white frat boy throwing a temper tantrum. About half of eligible voters didn't bother to vote either way in 2016, do you think that was 100% white boys? There are a lot of people of every race that don't vote because they live in a red state, or they have to work that day, or they are just so beaten down that they don't care anymore. But it's not cool to yell at those people for that so rattle your saber at white dudes and pat yourself on the back hero.
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Oct 25, 2019 06:22
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*votes by writing dick pic on ballot* suck on this, Biden *me 3 months later watching trump 2nd inauguration talk about banning all brown people* yeah get hosed Biden, hell yeah baby, voted with my conscience, change is a-coming
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Oct 25, 2019 06:22
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Koishi Komeiji posted:And you're imaging a scenario where every protest voter is a smug white frat boy throwing a temper tantrum. About half of eligible voters didn't bother to vote either way in 2016, do you think that was 100% white boys? There are a lot of people of every race that don't vote because they live in a red state, or they have to work that day, or they are just so beaten down that they don't care anymore. But it's not cool to yell at those people for that so rattle your saber at white dudes and pat yourself on the back hero. Reminder that probably the biggest reason Hillary lost 2016 is because millions of poc and working class voters in the midwest who turned out for Obama stayed home.
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Oct 25, 2019 06:29
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Anyway with our dogshit electoral college system voting matters even less than it does in other countries because most of us live in a state that is guaranteed red or blue anyway.
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Oct 25, 2019 06:32
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:convince me to vote for joe biden well uuuuuuhhhhhhh............ he had a bunch of brain aneurysms in the 1980s and uuuuuuuhhhh............ young people won't vote for him but uuuuhhhhh.......... he hugs racists and fondles little girls but you see he also uuuuuhhhh........ makes....a lot of.........gaffes? 
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Oct 25, 2019 06:35
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Koishi Komeiji posted:No one is telling them that it's wrong, just ineffective. Okay, but yeetlayers deliberately created the straw man that the protest voter must be more oppressed. My counterexample is just that. It’s almost like real life is more complicated than internet arguments. I’m not interested in yelling at anyone because it doesn’t change behavior but the question of the thread is how to approach electoralism. And my suggestion is that the big portion of left protest voters who are white guys should strongly consider looking at how non white guys are voting and consider the opportunity to boost their choices as a form of electoral reparations, pushing the other way against gerrymandering, canceling out chud votes, etc. Just a thought, my dudes, especially if you’re looking to soothe your conscience for voting for the libs under duress. You’ll do what you want in the end regardless, but that’s your out. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 25, 2019 06:37
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yronic heroism posted:Tl; dr - if actual marginalized communities want to do something different fine but until then white guys should vote blue and probably shut the gently caress up for once about their fee fees. no actually it's cool im giving everyone itt permission to not do this poo poo turn off the TV has issued a correction as of 06:41 on Oct 25, 2019 |
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Oct 25, 2019 06:38
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Toxic Mental posted:*votes by writing dick pic on ballot* suck on this, Biden voting for the racist boomer who pioneered ice border jails to own the chuds ftw
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Oct 25, 2019 06:40
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Homeless Friend posted:One of these things is much more important than the other. Voting is ascribed a moral weightiness that doesn't exist, and will never exist, because votes don't challenge the status quo. Yes, the nightmare that is capitalism will continue regardless of who you vote for, even if it was Bernie. No, noting isn't meaningless, don't be loving stupid.
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Oct 25, 2019 06:41
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TrilliontonNixon posted:Reminder that probably the biggest reason Hillary lost 2016 is because millions of poc and working class voters in the midwest who turned out for Obama stayed home. The biggest reason was the tens of millions of Trump voters. Be a hero. Cancel out your chud uncle’s vote in 2020.  (Also a lot of those voters didn’t stay home but were disenfranchised by chud laws so idk maybe vote for the party that will repeal them?  )
yronic heroism has issued a correction as of 07:25 on Oct 25, 2019 |
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Oct 25, 2019 06:43
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Two good reasons not to vote: 1) You cannot take time off of work because doing so would put you in serious financial hardship. 2) You cannot vote because doing so would cause you serious distress.
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Oct 25, 2019 06:46
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yronic heroism posted:The biggest reason was the tens of millions of Trump voters. Be a hero. Cancel out a chud’s vote in 2020. Wow, demanding that marginalized communities vote for a racist sundowning geriatric just because he's on your favorite team. Spoken like a true white guy. gently caress off.
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Oct 25, 2019 06:49
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Anarchist Mae posted:Two good reasons not to vote: 3) Both candidates on the ballot are bloodthirsty imperialists who will destroy multiple countries at the behest of monopoly capitalists.
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Oct 25, 2019 06:52
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sorry, but the blacks simply do not understand what's best for themselves and they must do as i say and vote blue no matter who so we don't have another repeat of 2016
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Oct 25, 2019 06:52
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TrilliontonNixon posted:3) Both candidates on the ballot are bloodthirsty imperialists who will destroy multiple countries at the behest of monopoly capitalists. I mean, if there was literally no difference, but thankfully we don't live in whatever fevered loving fantasy land you seem to think we do.
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Oct 25, 2019 06:56
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turn off the TV posted:sorry, but the blacks simply do not understand what's best for themselves I don’t know why I’m pointing out a false premise in a shitpost, but Clinton was a clear preference over not voting in 2016. ~90 percent vote share x 59 percent turnout. Why should I not take that preference by black voters into account? yronic heroism has issued a correction as of 07:10 on Oct 25, 2019 |
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Oct 25, 2019 07:04
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By doing nothing I’m REALLY doing something!
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Oct 25, 2019 07:09
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Anarchist Mae posted:Yes, the nightmare that is capitalism will continue regardless of who you vote for, even if it was Bernie. No, noting isn't meaningless, don't be loving stupid. I didn't say it was meaningless, I said it doesn't challenge the status quo. I specifically said it's meaning is to legitimize our fine empire. Defensiveness over voting in the U.S., of all places, is mind boggling. The reflexiveness about it, in the context of the next 100 years, is pretty laughable.
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Oct 25, 2019 07:11
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You’re a real lovely person for not letting the death cult win. gently caress you, you loving gently caress. Vote with your conscience like me, you loving atrocious piece of dog poo poo.
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Oct 25, 2019 07:11
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biden will finally finish obama's work and close gitmo
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Oct 25, 2019 07:11
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Homeless Friend posted:I didn't say it was meaningless, I said it doesn't challenge the status quo. I specifically said it's meaning is to legitimize our fine empire. Defensiveness over voting in the U.S., of all places, is mind boggling. The reflexiveness about it, in the context of the next 100 years, is pretty laughable. I'm not from the US. Also, they're going to win for the time being anyway, you can at least choose to gently caress over your fellow citizens less. It's not like not voting absolves you of the atrocities your government commits anyway.
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Oct 25, 2019 07:16
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Anarchist Mae posted:I mean, if there was literally no difference, but thankfully we don't live in whatever fevered loving fantasy land you seem to think we do. Obama backed a coup in Honduras, destroyed Libya and justified it under false pretexts, armed Al-Qaeda in Syria, comitted to a surge of troops in Afghanistan and then broke his promise to have us out by 2014, and of course killed thousands of people with drones. Obama aided the Saudis in their war against Yemen, which is now one of the worst humanitarian crises in the world. At the end of Obama's second term the US had been at war in seven countries. Trump has actually not been any more hawkish than Obama was.
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Oct 25, 2019 07:23
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Anarchist Mae posted:I'm not from the US. Who is 'winning' for the time being? How does voting gently caress over fellow citizens (very precise language there) less? Unfortunately, this "time being" argument grows pretty thin lol https://twitter.com/xavierfettweis/status/1186678858898169858
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Oct 25, 2019 07:30
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Homeless Friend posted:Who is 'winning' for the time being? How does voting gently caress over fellow citizens (very precise language there) less? The gently caress is this poo poo and what has it got to do with anything.
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Oct 25, 2019 07:33
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TrilliontonNixon posted:Obama backed a coup in Honduras, destroyed Libya and justified it under false pretexts, armed Al-Qaeda in Syria, comitted to a surge of troops in Afghanistan and then broke his promise to have us out by 2014, and of course killed thousands of people with drones. Obama aided the Saudis in their war against Yemen, which is now one of the worst humanitarian crises in the world. At the end of Obama's second term the US had been at war in seven countries. Trump has actually not been any more hawkish than Obama was. Ok so overthrow the government then. Oh, you can't? Well vote for the least worst then. Oh, you refuse? And this is your argument, are you high right now?
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Oct 25, 2019 07:36
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Anarchist Mae posted:The gently caress is this poo poo and what has it got to do with anything. You talked about loving over people less so I figured I'd post how voting could be said to be loving everybody over more
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Oct 25, 2019 07:37
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Homeless Friend posted:You talked about loving over people less so I figured I'd post how voting could be said to be loving everybody over more But they're going to be just as hosed over if you don't vote? You can at least vote for someone less likely to gently caress over minorities and working class folk.
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Oct 25, 2019 07:42
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Anarchist Mae posted:I'm not from the US. The thing is, in the US it’s not so much “my government” and “my fellow citizens” as it is my class as subjugated by the government of the ruling class. There’s an ongoing debate within the US left as to whether Bernie Sanders and politicians like AOC can provide cover at the federal level for real gains but otherwise the idea of the Democratic Party as any kind of ally to the working class is a myth. This might not be immediately obvious if where you’re from somewhere that isn’t the psychotic heart of global capital, so I don’t blame you for thinking we have any sort of political agency in the US!
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Oct 25, 2019 07:49
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Centrist Committee posted:The thing is, in the US it’s not so much “my government” and “my fellow citizens” as it is my class as subjugated by the government of the ruling class. There’s an ongoing debate within the US left as to whether Bernie Sanders and politicians like AOC can provide cover at the federal level for real gains but otherwise the idea of the Democratic Party as any kind of ally to the working class is a myth. This might not be immediately obvious if where you’re from somewhere that isn’t the psychotic heart of global capital, so I don’t blame you for thinking we have any sort of political agency in the US! I'm well aware of all that, my point is, what do you loose by voting? Maybe a few hours of your life for the chance to slow the insanity down a little. What do you loose by not voting? Maybe the chance to slow thing down and convince others that something needs to be done before the state decides full blown fascism is the answer. Y'all keep screaming about the bleeding obviously as though it has any bearing on this simple logic.
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Oct 25, 2019 07:55
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Anarchist Mae posted:Ok so overthrow the government then. I'm saying that there really is no least worst, that's a mirage. The so called lesser evil just leads to the greater evil later on. We voted for Obama to stave off McCain and Romney and got Trump, we voted for Clinton to stave off Dole and got Bush jr., and so on. If you take a step back and take a look at the whole picture you'd see that the lesser evil and the greater evil are inextricably connected. Obama and Clinton's failures, wrongdoings and broken promises are a huge part of the reason why we have Trump today. Millions of voters abandoned the Democrats at a critical moment and didn't vote in 2016. Why was that? It was because the Democrats had abandoned them first and left them to rot. If you vote for the lesser evil now what they will do is set the stage for the greater evil and then bow out to go water skiing with billionaires right when it shows up. The very cages that Trump is imprisoning undocumented families in were built by Obama. The only choice here is do you want the pain now, or even more pain later? We might not be able to overthrow the government at this moment, but it would sure be a better use of our time to get ourselves in a position where we can do that rather than play this game that we're always going to lose.
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Oct 25, 2019 08:03
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Anarchist Mae posted:I'm well aware of all that, my point is, what do you loose by voting? Maybe a few hours of your life for the chance to slow the insanity down a little. The state doesn’t decide fascism is the answer, capitalism devolves into fascism when the state can no longer enforce class hierarchy. Fascism isn’t a candidate you can vote against.
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Oct 25, 2019 08:04
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Anarchist Mae posted:But they're going to be just as hosed over if you don't vote? You can at least vote for someone less likely to gently caress over minorities and working class folk. That's why I said organizing is far more important that voting because voting, in general, doesn't prevent that.
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Oct 25, 2019 08:08
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Centrist Committee posted:The state doesn’t decide fascism is the answer, capitalism devolves into fascism when the state can no longer enforce class hierarchy. Fascism isn’t a candidate you can vote against. Welp. Guess I'm going to drain my brain out through my ear holes, maybe then I'll understand your position.
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Oct 25, 2019 08:08
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Homeless Friend posted:That's why I said organizing is far more important that voting because voting, in general, doesn't prevent that. All I said was do both you fucknut.
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Oct 25, 2019 08:09
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Anarchist Mae posted:All I said was do both you fucknut. Yeah, and I said is quibbling over individual voting behavior is dumb as hell since its mostly wishful thinking.
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Oct 25, 2019 08:12
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Any capitalist is gonna have to eat my drat rear end out if they want my vote
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Oct 25, 2019 08:15
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