The Tenth Life of BSS X-Thread: Get in, Loser! We're Going to Therapy!

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The Tenth Life of BSS X-Thread: Get in, Loser! We're Going to Therapy!

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Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

My first X-Men comics were when my pops brought home some issues of the Muir Island saga off the rack at the comics shop near the restaurant he ran, because I was sick. I remember most clearly, first, the Shadow King seducing Rogue in the shower, and second, thinking a line-up of characters all in their X-uniforms was actually the same character changing shape between panels.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2019 23:52

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 22:27

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Nevvy Z posted:

It's a good guess.
This probably that problem I don't know the name for where threats keep escalating in response to each other.

The Lensman Arms Race.

galagazombie posted:

I was never comfortable with the idea that humanity bettering itself through genetic engineering and technology was a bad thing that had to be stopped. Like Captain America and Iron Man must die so that Wolverine may live. If anything genetic engineering would basically eliminate the problem since Mutants would just genetically engineer themselves as well and normal people wouldn't really fear mutants because now everyones a superhuman.

The problem isn't Captain America and Iron Man, the problem is the Red Skull and Bolivar Trask.

# ¿ Jan 16, 2020 03:02

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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

To use an example that I think is a little bit fraught and I apologize but HoX/PoX already alluded to it, to a degree... it's kind of like saying "well if there were no way to tell the difference between Jews and other people there'd be no reason to hate Jews," and while that may be true, I don't think many of the Jews I know who are proud of their heritage would be entirely on board with the idea, you know?

(I apologize, I'm not super comfortable with that analogy and I don't like making it, but I think the comparison to real-world difficult issues of identity and the differences between integration and intersectionality and other identity politics issues is being deliberately made in the book, so if we're gonna talk about them we sort of have to be willing to make occasionally cringy and oversimplified analogies)

The analogy works better than you might think, because German Jews basically tried that strategy and it seemed to work for them until all of a sudden it didn't and then it didn't so hard that it was... well...

And that is probably a lot of what the thinking behind the mutant identity stuff is. There has been one event that killed the vast majority of mutants then living; another event that removed the vast majority of mutant powers (killing some of them, removing the consolation for being a social outcast for others, and destroying their identity as a group if not the individuals), and the whole Terrigen thing which was apparently also sterilizing them.

What I imagine will be struggled with in the story at some point is "is it worth it to have the identity of 'mutants'" but in addition to being at best obnoxious, this kind of gets rid of the premise of the franchise. It's like how nobody tells a story about how Batman realizes being a superhero is for idiots and gives away 99% of his fortune to public relief projects and then that's it, that's the end.

# ¿ Jan 16, 2020 06:51

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twistedmentat posted:

I noticed Xavier does seem to act like humanity is a monolithic entity. As of what Roxxon does is the fault of people living in Hungary.

It's not the nicest thing to do, but it both seems to track to how people actually come to perceive the world, and probably doesn't really matter from a mutant perspective except to gear the reaction. Humanity, collectively, does not seem to give enough of a poo poo to prevent mutant kill squads from arising.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2020 00:07

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I figure if they got to the point where the Purifiers were some kind of renegade AIM/Hydra group that would represent progress, the issue being both stochastic anti-mutant violence and how gee the government keeps building loving Sentinels

The introductory thing with Sabretooth I thought was pretty telling. They did take him despite his murders, but they also sent him to Mutant Hell, so from a purely judicial perspective, hey, it got handled.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2020 09:33

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Happy Noodle Boy posted:

Hickman has been posting B&W screens from various movies for the last few days so I have no idea what the next issue is going to be about.

Cyclops interrogates a monkey for 17 pages.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2020 22:26

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I imagine you could extend the project out to humans, but it seems like the Krakoan population now is in the tens of thousands, and their goal is to leverage this to bring back about sixteen million, so humans would probably be several stages outwards. I could totally see humans complaining that they didn't immediately prioritize humans and using that as an excuse for the next murder fiesta, though!

# ¿ Jan 26, 2020 01:06

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twistedmentat posted:

I hate that I missed there was a new Gwenpool series. I'm not sure how that happened. I guess I must have missed that previews or something?
And now this? What the hell?

Anyways, why do they keep bring Shaw back into the fold? He always betrays everyone for his own goals. Unless this is some masterful manipulation by Emma.

I assume Shaw has an enormous bench of contacts and networking with the business community, and given their ideology for Krakoa they can neither kill or permanently imprison him (unless he does an oopsie like Creed) nor do they want him on the outside fighting them, possibly out of spite.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2020 22:56

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Dawgstar posted:

That reminds me of the Shadow King. He'd be awkward to bring back.

I imagine he is low on the priority list, but you could do something interesting with him. Have him get no percentage from organized mutancy - indeed find it negative, because now Xavier, Frost, the Cuckoos, Jean Grey, Rachel Summers, and a dozen others are around who could beat him in a psi fight, and dozens more who could resist him or detect him abusing others.

Now you have a plausible traitor!

# ¿ Feb 8, 2020 00:26

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Synthbuttrange posted:

did he go to krakoa and like

break all the toilets and something

I think he's not a mutant despite being closely connected to a ton of mutants.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2020 02:35

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I feel like they might possibly put known assholes like Farouk at the back of the line behind all the dead Genoshans. Like Apocalypse and co. are playing ball but maybe Jimmy Jack the guy with the hypercolor skin gets to come back from "being killed by Sentinels" before the Shadow King gets to come back from "lost another fight on the astral plane while trying to sexily corrupt everybody."

# ¿ Feb 8, 2020 04:33

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Goa Tse-tung posted:

how did Moira convince literally everyone in the leadership that Destiny has to stay dead? just tell that to Mystique

None of those people were married to Destiny. It's also possible Moira lied about the reason, or left out key details, and if Destiny is revived she will immediately call them out. You also would have to tell Mystique the reason, and then she knows the reason and even if you revive Destiny anyway, she may use it against you.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2020 11:33

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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

one thing i really don't buy is how there always seems to be a shortage of x-men willing to pop off krakoa to do fights. there have been an awful lot of x-men and most of them are now on krakoa doing nothing in particular. heck, most of the x-men villains are there, too. but whenever there's a problem, they just send a handful of mutants when they could send out dozens on a moment's notice. i don't think the x-writers really know how to deal with the weird-rear end implications of krakoa.

I figure the vast majority of mutants are not nearly as well trained as the established X-Men, and may not have the desire or aptitude to pursue paramilitary training. Some dude whose power is that he's blue, eight feet tall and has a second pair of arms may just want to be the Krakoan IT guy.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2020 23:33

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Codependent Poster posted:

Meggan and Brian are allowed to be on Krakoa so I don't think Xavier would disallow humans to live there.

It's honestly kind of weird Brian isn't a mutant

# ¿ Feb 25, 2020 06:03

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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

there's still the entire population of genosha to work through. so, no room in the queue for flatscans.

Yeah it seems like the procedure could eventually scale up since a human brain is presumably not that different from a mutant brain.

I had the realization late last night that Angel, of all people, is a profound biological novelty because he's a hexapodal mammal, even though his power is generally held to not be particularly awesome.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2020 23:08

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Cabbit posted:

I haven't kept up with issues recently, so I'm just sort of sifting through second-hand information in this thread, but it really struck me how far X-Men has drifted away from mutants-as-metaphor and mutants as actual loving superheroes. What really drew me into them was the superhero melodrama as a backdrop to a lot of that stuff that resonated with me for reasons I didn't fully understand (initially) or was actively running away from (later on).

They're not bad stories, but, like, gently caress. Sometimes it's starting to feel like it's been stripped of all but the most basic, watered down 'bigotry bad!' kind of message that's so broad you could be applying it to racism against loving space aliens instead of anything that's actually still going on, right now, in twenty loving twenty.

I dunno. Like I said, not bad stories. In a vacuum, in fact, they're pretty good. I just find myself wishing everything would go to hell sooner than later such that things might migrate to a status quo that's recognizable as superheroics or relatable in any capacity.

Most of this stuff seems like a logical consequence or continuation of the various trends in the X-books for the last couple of decades, what with all these repeated mutant mass murders and so forth. I would not be shocked if Krakoa eventually either falls entirely or becomes the X-Men's secret hideout.

Also, those mutant super-drugs probably saved hundreds of thousands of lives since they were introduced, so how do you like them apples, Richards! :v:

# ¿ Feb 27, 2020 07:32

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You're also getting an interesting sort of nuance with the construction of a mutant identity, or its reconstruction.

Being a mutant means you have the x-gene powers, but then you get people like Aero who lost the power without, presumably, having their genes changed. These people are still considered mutants by Krakoa's rules, but Apocalypse here is also presenting another route of affirmation: "are you willing to fight and die for the sake of being a full-fledged mutant?" She could've stopped at any time, and presumably there are a number of mutants whose "powers" boil down to a disability.

What I thought reading that was, "could a person without the X-gene challenge Apocalypse to 1v1 them to be recognized as a mutant," although that's a pretty long term angle. Presumably you would have to be willing to die and be reborn, possibly with your x-gene activated. But (for instance) Brian Braddock, who has a long term connection to many mutants, a mutant sister and a mutant wife, might give it a go. Though Brian in particular might be able to actually win that fight, so maybe he's not the best example :v:

# ¿ Feb 29, 2020 00:11

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Adder Moray posted:

This is actually an interesting notion. Something I said elsewhere:

Taking that idea, it would be interesting to apply it to non-mutants who are family to mutants. Do you love your family enough that you're willing to fight and die for mutantkind? Unlike mutants undertaking the Crucible, there's no benefit for a human except the right to live amongst and be accepted by mutants.

Even more interesting is if humans aren't actually given the right to come back. Stopping just before killing them, healing them back to good health (maybe even better than they were), but immortality is for mutants only.

It seems like a space where in a "realistic" culture you'd start developing penumbras over years/decades/centuries: "Well, clearly the flatscan parents of a mutant qualify. Maybe their siblings too. And the pre-Krakoan allies of mutantkind. And--"

The "make more mutants" command doesn't say "reproduce sexually," either, now does it?

# ¿ Feb 29, 2020 00:42

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Nevvy Z posted:

I'm not sure I'm clear how "suicide by -A-" is that distinct from just "suicide" but I guess giving it a structure and ceremony goes a long way towards getting people to get in line alive.

The logistics of resurrecting millions is so weird and interesting.

I figure it's a mix of a show of devotion that helps ~~radicalize~~ reinforce the aspiring reborn mutant's identity, partially neutralizes ethical questions around suicide etc., and also - perhaps most importantly - avoids clogging up the queue with people out to resleeve for funsies.

Also, Apocalypse gets to kill people with a sword while giving speeches in front of a crowd, so it's great for him!

# ¿ Feb 29, 2020 00:52

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Happy Noodle Boy posted:

I want to see the council meeting where Crucible was established just to see how much of it was his idea.

The sword thing turns out to be because Apocalypse institutes sixteen different sword-battle-based dispute resolution mechanisms in Krakoan society.

Gologle posted:

Why would half of those characters even use swords

Because swords are rad

# ¿ Feb 29, 2020 01:06

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How Wonderful! posted:

I'm actually curious about the proportion of Sentinel stories in which the Sentinels are explicitly funded and directed by the US government vs. stories in which the Sentinels are a rogue element or controlled by some private organization or bad-guy. I feel like in the past 15-20 years in particular it has leaned more towards the latter but I could be wrong. I suppose I'd also count stuff like the O*N*E bit or that Iron Giant-esque title about the kid who had a Sentinel.

Although that makes me think once again of the weird politics of forgiveness on Krakoa, since IIRC a large chunk of Sentinels stories from the 80s through the aughts involved Sebastian Shaw designing and building them, albeit often for other people.

To a certain extent they're all rationalizing from a secret plan that is not completely known to most of the participants, but it makes sense to me that they'd be like "OK, as of right now everyone gets a clean slate." It is arbitrary and unfair but any other solution would be too, and by having a point of explicit "henceforth, anno mutantis, you get judged by our law" means that at least you would have some degree of justice going forwards.

# ¿ Feb 29, 2020 09:59

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Skwirl posted:

Yeah, but it does make the continued vilification of Scarlet Witch a little weird. Forge did what she did on a much smaller scale, his introduction was developing a weapon that stole Storm's powers for like fifty issues, she had to get de-aged into a pre-teen and then hang out with Gambit to get her powers back. Sebastian Shaw spent a ton of time developing the weapons that were used to commit an actual genocide.

I imagine the distinction they'd make if asked to justify it is "Shaw wanted to kill a bunch of individual mutants; Wanda wanted to kill mutants as a concept."

# ¿ Feb 29, 2020 10:29

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Schneider Heim posted:

Why does Apocalypse have a sword in X-Men #7? It's been getting rave reviews and got me curious

He's just trying to keep his mind alive, you know? You never just see one of these hanging around.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2020 07:22

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danbanana posted:

Kurt deciding to start a "mutant religion" is probably the worst thing that's come out of this run. Hickman tried really hard to justify it but it's been the most blatant break from any previous characterization we've seen. The focus on the afterlife- or potential lacking of one- as the defining feature of religion is simplistic and pretty anti-Christian/Catholic. Kurt's belief system as a Catholic should be entirely based on the existence of Christ. Whether Heaven as defined by our current cultural definition "exists" isn't particularly important in the Catholic faith. So Kurt's questioning in light of "immortality" doesn't make sense. It shouldn't matter to someone who was a loving priest.

Claremont's use of Kurt as the humanist worked on a couple levels: the obvious one where the demonic-looking mutant was the most angelic and the one where the most religious character also happened to be the most open and accepting. The latter was the most revolutionary, in some ways. Breaking from the mold of religious = judgmental.

Also, regarding that "immortality".... How long do they expect to live? Kurt can't expect Krakoa to last more than, what, a century? At best? What if one or more of the Five just decide to cut out? The resurrection procedure is basically a way for mutants to not get MURDERED. It doesn't mean that their lives won't eventually end. So any questions regarding the afterlife are dumb considering at SOME point they'll be dead. Also... does a mutant get a choice NOT to be resurrected? In 50 years, can Storm just be like "Nope, lived a crazy-rear end life. I'm out."

Sometimes people change their religious opinions. I imagine Kurt has seen enough poo poo to challenge his faith, and he may also, to some extent, want to share his humanistic values rather than just creating an awkward space everyone avoids because they think of Rev. Stryker which gets filled by... Apocalypse.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2020 05:40

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danbanana posted:

"I'm a good person so I'm going to develop a new religious system even though I already have a deeply held personal one" is not very convincing.

It's loving lazy, and one of the very few missteps in this run so far.

What Kurt would probably actually do is give lectures or write some poo poo down exploring these ideas. If anything they'd probably be rooted in Catholic thought and he would naturally consider this preferable (probably accurately) to Apocalypse's Sword Fight Rodeo.

e: And part of the contrast of this scene is probably "Kurt says 'I need to start a mutant religion'" which then jump cuts to Apocalypse doing Crucible. Big Lips is already doin' it

# ¿ Mar 27, 2020 23:47

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galagazombie posted:

That was honestly the least icky thing about it. They spent the whole time talking up that the only thing that gives you worth is if you have super powers and that if you lack the ability to turn your fingernails blue under a full moon you're little more than a soulless animal undeserving of basic dignity.

I'm gonna be fair to En Sabah Nur that I don't think this is what the dude was saying. It may be a practical outcome of what he is saying, but there seems to be a reliable underlying logic in most of these folks that acknowledges humans as intelligent beings with agency - but then goes on to say, "mutants are meaningfully distinct, and we are now talking about mutants."

# ¿ Mar 28, 2020 02:59

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Codependent Poster posted:

I think it's the whole having to fight him with a sword and take a lot of punishment mentally, physically, and verbally thing. There are easier and less painful ways to go.

What's the alternative, death panels!?

I think the idea was to make it difficult in order to avoid people bum-rushing the gates. Rationing on the basis of "are you willing to sword-fight Apocalypse?"

# ¿ Mar 28, 2020 04:31

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Nevvy Z posted:

I think GZ is correctly identifying some the negative social pressures that are part of pushing this in a gross fascist religious direction. But it's complicated. I love every bonkers thing happening so far.

Yeah I don't think anything Apocalypse has been doing has been "good." At best he is going to have some kind of role in Moira's grand plan that works towards positive ends, and has neutral side effects along the way. It has certainly been showing he is not just a guy with big lips who says "EVOLUTION" before he shoots you with a doom ray, at least.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2020 23:15

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ImpAtom posted:

To be honest you'd have to do a hell of a lot to get me to accept resurrection. I'd be like Dr. Bones and the loving transporter. Don't tell me how indistinguishable the other version of me will be, if you can clone me that ain't me.

Don't tell Madrox.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2020 06:13

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Adder Moray posted:

People make the mistake of deciding characters who can and will do whatever they want whenever they want with 0 moral compunction factoring into their actions are all interested in being skeevy sex criminals and murderers in the first place.

Give me a character completely lacking in conscience who's still pretty nice to be around until you see what they do to someone they both despise and wouldn't be in trouble for harming. Don't have then enjoy what they do to the person, maybe even have them find it unpleasant, but also show they have no moral qualms about doing it.

I think this could be profoundly terrifying but would require a certain degree of psychological deftness. Ideally, you don't want the person to come off as "badass," or at least not just "badass," so much as being an outside context problem who completely violates an expected social flow. There were moments like that with Rorschach in Watchmen, though that was also kind of soaking in with the Rorschach.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2020 12:14

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Anthony Stark makes you experience emotional reactions. He's a level-headed executive with a cardiac implant.

Iron Man, on the other hand, is aerially mobile and often displaces large amounts of rubble etc. with his in-built energy weaponry.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2020 23:55

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Antifa Turkeesian posted:

I wonder if all that horny poo poo was part of why I liked X-Men when I was 14. I sure don�t remember any of this pronounced and endlessly varied horny.

I think Claremont being able to channel the horny is a lot of why X-Men took off.

# ¿ Apr 24, 2020 00:40

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Rick posted:

I feel like it's implied she was 18 once Excalibur started but I could be misremembering.

She had a 'too young to drive' birthday early on.

# ¿ Apr 24, 2020 05:55

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Open Marriage Night posted:

I�m at the point where they lean pretty hard on the horny in the back ups. I knew Colossus got with a woman in the Savage Land, but I didn�t know it was two at the same time.

He just wanted a second front, like any good proletarian!

# ¿ May 13, 2020 20:51

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Codependent Poster posted:

I really don't understand what happened in Excalibur but all those designs were pretty sweet.

Ah, you're reading the Cross-Time Caper!

# ¿ Jun 11, 2020 20:12

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Open Marriage Night posted:

Yeah. That one teaser image. Besides that there�s been a vague mention of a sword back when Krakoa was first born, the swords in the crucible, Cerebro getting turned into a sword, and the space knight sword from Cable #1.

EDIT: I think Brian Braddock had a sword in Excalibur when he was brainwashed? Psylocke had a sword, and Domino could make a sword with her Krakoa gauntlet.

A sword related to Excalibur? That's a stretch

# ¿ Jun 17, 2020 01:50

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Gologle posted:

Why is Hank just so loving evil nowadays? He wasn't always like this, right? I swear I remember a time when he was a good guy.

I assume Dark Beast made such a cultural impact that he washed out what was there prior, which to be fair was not exactly the strongest brew.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2020 02:35

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Hickman is absolutely going to destroy the Moon now.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2020 07:28

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I figure the "make more mutants" thing is not exactly an exhortation to gently caress and make babies.

You can also make more mutants by cloning, genetic engineering, or exposing people to mutagens. Or more bizarre ways.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2020 10:41

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 22:27

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Codependent Poster posted:

Why is Colossus jumping around a leprechaun and the hare from Alice in Wonderland?

I don't know about the hare, but a leprechaun is actually an important minor figure in the X-Mythos - the first person to use Logan's proper name was a leprechaun in Tom Cassidy's auld pile.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2020 08:15

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The Tenth Life of BSS X-Thread: Get in, Loser! We're Going to Therapy!

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