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kreeningsons
Jan 2, 2007

James Woods posted:

You have to admire that shoulder check

you actually don't, under any circumstances

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kreeningsons
Jan 2, 2007

stratdax posted:

Just for reference, a complete stop is where the weight of your car settles back on suspension. Which frankly, is an insane thing to do if you're at a 4 way and you can clearly see you're the only one at the intersection.

i agree except it's a sane thing to do if you're in a place with hostile police or in a neighborhood where you/your car looks out of place.

kreeningsons
Jan 2, 2007

wesleywillis posted:

Why the fuckin poo poo didn't that bird just fly up there?

not sure about this bird in particular but i do know that a lot of captive parrots have their wings clipped

kreeningsons
Jan 2, 2007

Uthor posted:

Everything I hear is how roundabouts are safer, and I for them, but there's a pair of them on my way to work (one on each side of the highway for the on/off ramps) and they are double lane roundabouts and EVERY DAY I see people enter the roundabout and immediately change lanes while going around. Thankfully, it's only been a close call a couple of times the 8 months I've been working there.

There's another one that I hit when I decide to avoid the highway due to traffic that is right after a stop light intersection. So, I have to wait for a green light before entering. What's the point?!

i'm not sure on the particular design of this roundabout, but in the spirit of expecting the unexpected from other drivers, i would probably wait for both lanes to clear before merging into it, in case someone pulls a sudden switcheroo lane change.

kreeningsons
Jan 2, 2007

Big Mac posted:

doing some quick loving around with Wolfram Alpha, I'm seeing that 115,000 tons, moving at 5 knots, is equivalent to the thrust of 82 solid rocket boosters from the Space Shuttle.

edit ah I see I'm not the only one getting posting fodder from wolfram rn

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

Well, the Locust Point Marine Terminal which is now blocked because of the accident, is the largest RORO port on the Eastern Seaboard and is tied into the rail and road network that needed to use that bridge. The harbor speed, I believe, is 4-6knots max (I seem to remember that from when I lived in Fells Point), and at over 100K tons, even at 4 knots that's a fuckton of kinetic energy that will vaporize pretty much any structure that it hits head on.

Xerol posted:

I think it's 6 but the governor said it was moving at 8 when it collided. Either way it's a fuckload of momentum. I punched these numbers in based on what was said at that press conference and yeah I don't think they designed it to handle a 788887. Compared to the WTC that pillar was a toothpick, and you're throwing about 4 times as much energy into it?



i did some quick loving around calculations at work but for energy absorbed, which based on my loving around research is the main way these bridge dolphins/protections systems are rated.

the sunshine skyway bridge in florida has a protection system rated for a hit from a 87,000 ton ship at 10 knots.

the ship that hit the key bridge in baltimore was reportedly 117,000 tons and traveling at 8 knots.

calculating the kinetic energy of each, the ship in baltimore had 86% of the kinetic energy as the skyway bridge protection system was rated for.

so it does seem like a protection system can withstand a direct hit from a ship this size. but key point, it has to be direct hit, not oblique like in baltimore, which looks like the ship dodged any protection system in place. this seems to be the place on the forums that this accident is getting the most technical discussion, so if any nerds know more about these systems than i do (basically just what i could learn today) then please correct me.

kreeningsons
Jan 2, 2007

Phanatic posted:

One bit that's gonna be interesting is that I-695 is the Hazmat route for I-95.

The official word is to go all the way around the other direction on I-695 lol

kreeningsons
Jan 2, 2007

hawowanlawow posted:

I think a dude with that much PPE probably had a $10 lead testing kit

i instagram comment on a lot of these home renovation videos asking people if they tested for lead paint. it's about 50/50, some people just ignore the possibility altogether. that dude is probably on top of it though.

kreeningsons
Jan 2, 2007


Big Mac posted:

It does feel nice to have relatively grounded discussions about the incident and what preventative measures would look like and be capable of. While dolphins or protective islands would (presumably) be good, I also wonder about the soil typology in a large, presumably very alluvial harbor - those pilings would have to be deep and plentiful to be able to handle anything close to the lateral loading that a container ship would be capable of. I'm not familiar with the soils around Sunshine Skyway, either, or dolphin construction, or, or, or, or

I wonder, ultimately, how much of an impact any truss bridge like this could take. No question that the supports were the most overwhelmingly critical parts, but I have to presume that designing for something to impact those piles with even 1/10th the tonnage is asking for the Hoover Dam.

Thanks, that Reddit thread is pretty good. The day of the collapse, the attitude in various online places was that nothing could possibly be built to protect a bridge from a ship of this weight. Which is not really true, systems have been built that are rated to protect bridges from ships weighing this much. There was an attitude elsewhere that the ship was simply too large to be stopped by any man made device, which again isn’t true, the ship was stopped by the bridge itself after all, just after suffering catastrophic damage.

Now the conversation has shifted to two questions.

Are bridge protection systems rated for a direct hit or just a glancing hit? I’ve found some specifications online for structural dolphin systems, but nothing more recent than the mid 20th century. Protection systems function by berthing the ship. There are calculations for determining how far the ship will ride over the dolphins before coming to rest, which seems to be as much as half the length of the ship. These calculations can include tidal flows, thrust of the ship, momentum of the water behind the ship, etc. So the follow up question is, would the dolphins meaningfully function if the ship could still continue for half its length in the direction of the bridge? I don’t know.

The other question is, could a retrofit even have been built in the harbor considering its space constraints and the composition of its bottom? The water under this bridge is very tight and the composition of the bottom is not favorable, so the attitude among the experts seems to be that building one would be possible but not practical. There’s not a lot of information presented to back up that claim, just a few tweets and a line in the NYT. So I don’t know either.

My own biases lead me to remember I’ve heard these same sources conceal their pessimism as pragmatism by stating many other objectively good state projects are “possible but not practical” while the state spends mind boggling amounts of money, effort, and creativity on objectively evil things. I’m cynical, but also, Baltimore is a great city, the same forces that made the city a decaying rust belt nightmare also make it possible for beautiful things to exist that couldn’t exist in any other city, and I’m heavily invested in it.

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kreeningsons
Jan 2, 2007


Funny story, I’ve definitely seen diesel tanker trucks blow through 895 without even hesitating. Maybe they were empty, idunno, but their hazmat placards were still out as if they were trucking a full load of diesel.

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