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ElNarez posted:they'll do it to centrists too, you dumb motherfuckers, the play is to just blatantly lie and smear anyone they oppose and they can get away with it because the press is owned by billionaires and you can't work at the BBC if you're not gonna play nice with that system Yeah, Miliband was New Labour and got absolutely crushed as well. There's nobody that can stand against the Tories and be free of the propaganda machine. The exit poll makes absolutely zero sense however, I can't fathom it at all, especially when Corbyn did so well last election and was getting Blair numbers. FPTP is utter shite. At this point I'm used to hoping for the best but expecting the worst, but the worst I could imagine is a Tory minority that didn't need DUP support. If it really is a blowout like this I'm lost as to how it happened. This country desperately needs a leader like Corbyn right now.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:03
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Purple Prince posted:But what the right does love doing that the left has qualms about doing is using tools that are anti-democratic, like regulating media to their advantage and gerrymandering. The success of the populist right wing argument is also grounded in emotion and people's need to feel superior to others and punish others rather than the class analysis and data generally involved on the left. This is the real root of it all, and you nailed it on the head. The right wins because they will use every dirty trick in the book and they do not give a drat. The left is wholesome and good etc. but they refuse to do what needs to be done, which is that at the end of the day they're going to need to realize that yes, you actually do have to sink to their level if you want to stand a chance. The country needed Corbyn, and instead it's got the complete opposite of what it needs. There is nobody that Labour can field who will be electable. They tried sticking to centrist politics with Miliband and he got decimated. Corbyn thought a pull back to traditional values would work and he was right first time round, but got decimated the last GE just like Miliband did. Whoever leads the party when Corbyn stands down is utterly irrelevant, the propaganda machine has a very firm grasp of the voting populace and opposition parties need to assess their strategies for combating that rather than thinking that one day they'll find "The One" who will lead them to victory. Blair knew this, and so he was smart and got cozy with Murdoch. I don't like the guy, but he got it. There's also the unfortunate issue that the right will always be unified and fall in line when needed, but the left remains scattered. You want Tory then you vote Tory. You don't want Tory? Well here's all your choices... The best shot at an election in my opinion is having only one opposition party for people to vote for and for that party to play the Tories at their own game. The people of Scotland are rightfully flocking to the SNP for their voice, but it's an utter clusterfuck elsewhere. I think there's a lot of seats where the non-right votes outweigh the Tory votes.
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Dec 31, 2019 10:47
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Azza Bamboo posted:Let's get down to the nitty gritty of a winning strategy then. Who do we need to turn and where to make up the seats for a parliament? The Tories got it spot on with their laser focus on "Workington Man" and Labour Leave seats. Surely given our huge defeat we now have a wide choice of battlegrounds and demographics to target and actually work on. The Tories had the media, Labour didn't. It's that simple, Labour needs to strategize how it's going to deal with the media because manifestos are utterly meaningless. Blind tests have proven Labour policies are overwhelmingly more popular than Conservative ones, and those same tests concluded with "Who will you vote for?" which saw a majority Conservative result. The Labour manifesto is not the problem. People wanted Corbyn but were bombarded with propaganda making them vote for what they oppose. Bobby Deluxe posted:This was one of the few problems I had with Corbyn, the 'kinder politics' thing. I don't think it worked and I think it ended up not only with him looking weak, but with too many Tory controversies going unopposed. Chomsky summed it up perfectly when he stated, "One must admire the incredible skills the media have in manipulating the population. They've managed to convince many that the most passionate anti-racist campaigner of the last 40 years, Jeremy Corbyn, is actually pro-racist and anti-Semitic."
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Dec 31, 2019 17:01
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OwlFancier posted:The party as a whole would not support that and I think neither would a lot of labour's voters. Works for the Tories, though. They've blatantly shown contempt for Parliament and democracy, broken electoral law multiple times, lied to the Queen, defied the courts and so on and so forth. They even openly joke about being the nasty party. There needs to be an opposition party that's willing to fight back and use every trick in the book just like they do. Anyone in the party that doesn't support it needs a swift boot, just like the Tories do when they go on their highly efficient backstabbing sprees.
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Dec 31, 2019 17:40
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kustomkarkommando posted:I mean they can force them to withdraw from the chamber and send the serjeant at arms over to escort them out at which stage you have to wonder if getting in a fistfight with someone performing a public function in a silly costume will be good optics. Remember when that Labour MP took the mace as a peaceful symbolic gesture? In the 70's Michael Heseltine picked it up and started swinging the loving thing around at Labour front benches when he was a Conservative MP, because the Labour government at the time just passed a vote regarding the nationalisation of the shipbuilding industry. Another Tory had to wrestle it off him, placed it back the wrong way round, and then multiple MPs actually engaged in fisticuffs in the chamber.
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Dec 31, 2019 20:02
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