let's talk about build systems

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > let's talk about build systems

what build system
	intern manually running tasks by hand
	some gigantic proprietary system that only runs on windows
	random link to github project with no commit in 3 years
	goku

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

View Results

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

alright so if not maven what am I supposed to use to build my trash java apps?

# ¿ Dec 21, 2019 18:12

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 11, 2024 09:19

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

oh my god no

# ¿ Dec 21, 2019 20:20

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

it sounds like ANT where I need to understand each projects bespoke build process instead of relying on the tool enforcing a consistent system that works in all realistic cases

# ¿ Dec 21, 2019 20:45

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

I guess I should add that I view it as a feature that maven forces you to conform to it and enforces a fairly high barrier to entry (building your own plugin) to diverge

# ¿ Dec 21, 2019 20:55

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

Gazpacho posted:

gradle provides modules that can be configured similar to maven using far more efficient and readable syntax (lol @ hand-edited xml)

however it is magical thinking to suppose that these pre-existing modules will always cover the emergent needs of any organization and for those cases gradle lets you go procedural as needed, reusing parts of those modules at the level where they are indeed reusable

maven's architecture is that any emergent need has to be captured immediately as a plugin, before you can proceed at all. you don't get to express it procedurally at first so that you can feel out the requirements and what the configuration points are. this pushes you to create "reusable" plugins that are not in fact reusable and should be done over, but we know that necessary do-overs have a way of not ever happening

(though in observed practice people will just hack in an antrun goal rather than create a plugin, while crossing their fingers that it doesn't conflict with maven's "opinions" about goal sequencing, because bro there's a friggin deadline)

I�m gonna ignore the hand wringing over xml because honestly who cares

during my entire time developing java I have never had a case where we had emergent build system needs that we needed to iterate on because mavens extremely generic clean -> compile -> test -> package -> deploy flow covered it. the build system should be a very boring implementation detail, I want to spend next to no time thinking about it.

the only time I�ve really seen people want to break out of the maven way of doing things is when they want to produce more than 1 artifact per project, and maven forcing them to use multiple projects instead usually results in a better design

# ¿ Dec 22, 2019 00:20

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

Progressive JPEG posted:

the core of jenkins sends RPCs by serializing a java object containing the code to be executed, then sending it to the worker node

the worker node then deserializes and executes the object

i call it RPC by RCE

this is also why java versions must exactly align across all the jenkins machines

lmao

# ¿ Dec 22, 2019 09:48

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

Gazpacho posted:

even if i had it it wouldn't be mine to post, and anyway we both know that your response would be "why are you doing the dumb things" while ignoring the answer I have always given, that the management mandated the use of maven while also imposing requirements (esp. variant builds) that conflict with maven's "opinions"

that is lovely, and also not maven�s fault

# ¿ Jan 11, 2020 21:24

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

the purpose of a build system is to be better than rolling your own Frankenstein build process that�s probably going to be a bunch of shell scripts janitoring the file system, calling the compiler, etc. Some build systems, like maven, make the design decision to enforce a standard project layout and build pipeline, which is a perfectly valid choice

# ¿ Jan 11, 2020 22:58

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

the closer your build tools are to imperative scripting, the further they are from righteousness

# ¿ Jan 11, 2020 23:03

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 11, 2024 09:19

dads friend steve: Dec 24, 2004

I have no good answer to the question above, but I do have a question of my own: how is it that you have PRs all to the same repo and at such a frequency that you have that problem to begin with? Like how is that happening so often you need automation?

# ¿ Jan 14, 2020 19:21

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > let's talk about build systems