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Since I have been an adult I have always identified as a leftist. Since then I have been an anarchist, a socialist, a communist, ancom, ansoc, a democratic socialist, a Marxist, a Marxist-Leninist, a Trotskyist, a left-communist, a council-communist, a traditional Marxist, an orthodox Marxist, and a neo-Marxist, (at least I was never a Posadist, or a Hoxhaist) all without having a really firm understanding of exactly what I believe in and what all of these terms mean. This is a thread to talk about the distinctions between various types of leftism and to try to figure out where you stand on the vast spectrum. It is a also a thread to argue about the best way to achieve revolution and what the best post-revolution worlld looks like. Hopefully it is also a thread about the process of the many types of leftists forming a stable coalition that can fight back against a united right with equally disparate and conflicting views. Right now, I believe in freedom. I believe in universal justice. I believe in a free press and free speech. I believe in democracy. I am a leftist. I am a Marxist. I am an impossiblist; in the long-term capitalism is unsustainable. I am an internationalist, but I believe that different people have different needs and support self-determination. National socialist movements cannot sustain themselves. I think that socialist revolutions need to be tailored to an individual nations current situation and needs to succeed. Tailor made revolutions succeeded in the short term in Russia, China, and Cuba, but were unsustainable. In societies with limited class consciousness different strategies have worked. Vanguardism worked in Russia. Agrarian socialism worked in China. Guerrilla warfare worked in Cuba. Market socialism worked in Yugoslavia. All of them eventually failed. All turned away from democracy and towards authoritarianism. Russia and China turned into state capitalistic societies, and Cuba and Yugoslavia were sustained only by a cult of personality. They all failed due to a lack of international solidarity. The soviets could have thrived if a state in western Europpe had had a successful revolution between the world wars. The Chinese and the Yugoslavians could have thrived if they united against Stalinism. I can't see Cuba succeeding in the long run in any situation. What kind of leftist am I if I'm a Marxist who believes in internationalism with democratic self-determination? What kind of leftist are you? e: troupmh ----------------
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Dec 24, 2019 07:58
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=9gEvxw9XKzo
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Dec 24, 2019 08:15
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I'm a sorry art cop, OP
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Dec 24, 2019 08:17
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nice. seatle in '99 was the first time i was teargassed. i still don't believe that enough class consciousness to sustain a revolution can be obtained until the people see tha the limits of pure reform are not enough to achieve equality
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Dec 24, 2019 08:20
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DoubleDonut posted:I'm a sorry art cop, OP art cops always kind of pissed me off. a lot of media reinforces the status quo, but i've never seen how jazz is counterrevolutionary like adorno says
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Dec 24, 2019 08:23
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i still don't know if i shoudl join the sdp or the uscp or the dsa or the peoples front of judea or the juedeans peoples front
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Dec 24, 2019 08:25
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when people ask me IRL I say, "look call it whatever label you want but I know that people shouldn't loving die in the streets without access to food, shelter, or medicine." turns out this gets a lot more people than I thought to reveal that they fundamentally agree or that they are a huge piece of poo poo, so I keep using it
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Dec 24, 2019 12:08
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Dec 24, 2019 12:14
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The cowardly kind
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Dec 24, 2019 12:55
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The kind that makes no apologies for Stalin or Mao. And remembers that liberals are to be combatted. Always.
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Dec 24, 2019 15:09
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I guess a communist but lately I've been thinking downwardly mobile failson students like me should be purged from any working class party. Guess what with the downward mobility I'll proletarianize until it's not a problem though.
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Dec 24, 2019 15:09
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Tempora Mutantur posted:when people ask me IRL I say, "look call it whatever label you want but I know that people shouldn't loving die in the streets without access to food, shelter, or medicine." if you said that to obama he would say, "oh yeah, i'm that too." and then he would tell you all the reasons why they have to die anyway
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Dec 24, 2019 15:36
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don’t worry about what kind of whatever you are, find the people who are doing the work of organizing and join them and do the work and you’re whatever that is.
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Dec 24, 2019 15:55
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apropos to nothing posted:don’t worry about what kind of whatever you are, find the people who are doing the work of organizing and join them and do the work and you’re whatever that is. Yeah honestly if you're not out and doing this it doesn't matter at all what you think you are.
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Dec 24, 2019 15:59
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ancom because i can't trust people to make an accountable socialist state BUT i also trust comrades to help me build an accountable socialist state
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Dec 24, 2019 19:21
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I don't give a poo poo op
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Dec 25, 2019 00:18
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Dec 25, 2019 00:29
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Homeless Friend posted:I don't give a poo poo op
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Dec 25, 2019 00:34
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BgRdMchne posted:What kind of leftist are you?
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Dec 25, 2019 00:53
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BgRdMchne posted:What kind of leftist am I if I'm a Marxist who believes in internationalism with democratic self-determination?  congrats on helping to make the 'rich are scum' narrative needlessly complex op
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Dec 25, 2019 01:02
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moralism is a big problem of the left tho so even 'rich are scum' needs to be qualified
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Dec 25, 2019 01:13
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Dec 25, 2019 01:29
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V. Illych L. posted:moralism is a big problem of the left tho so even 'rich are scum' needs to be qualified moralism is only a problem of the left when liberals get involved. apart from maybe the mid-level minutia of footballers, actors, musicians and the odd surgeon pray tell who the not scum rich are
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Dec 25, 2019 01:32
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why is it a problem that the rich are scum? surely everyone is scum etc etc etc
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Dec 25, 2019 01:36
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V. Illych L. posted:why is it a problem that the rich are scum? surely everyone is scum etc etc etc youve changed
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Dec 25, 2019 01:38
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We need heavy handed authoritarian left 
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Dec 25, 2019 01:40
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I've internalized mazovian-socioeconomics, op. There is currently 0.00% of communism built and it troubles me
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Dec 25, 2019 01:42
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sad cop
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Dec 25, 2019 01:44
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V. Illych L. posted:why is it a problem that the rich are scum? surely everyone is scum etc etc etc Focusing on the rich while acting people making even 100k should still exist is always a hearty lol
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Dec 25, 2019 01:44
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I want to take all the rich people's money and use it to replace all the plants on earth with weed and then when climate change gets really bad we'll just burn all the weed at once
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Dec 25, 2019 01:56
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Kill em all and no sorting out required
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Dec 25, 2019 01:57
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the immortal science of marxism-Leninism
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Dec 25, 2019 02:27
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Vitamin P posted:youve changed no *i* heartily believe the rich to be scum of the earth and literal harbingers of the apocalypse but it's very helpful to be able to formulate why non-scum rich people can exist without it disproving the central thesis that *wealth itself* is really hosed up and produces incredibly perverse outcomes. the moment one gets caught up in arguments based on a certain group being evil one is vulnerable to 'but X isn't evil!!!' which is really hard to counter. much easier to state that it's not really anybody's fault but much wants more etc of course many people have the correct instinct that the very rich are a bunch of hideous psychopaths, and that should be nurtured into fully fledged class consciousness, but that also needs to be proofed against a rich non-monstrous individual
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Dec 25, 2019 02:45
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Mormon Maoist
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Dec 25, 2019 03:57
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i'm not reading marx. i'm wahtever ideology is the kind who will Not read marx. he's boring
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Dec 25, 2019 07:49
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moralism also sucks because it's annoying and unappealing.
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Dec 25, 2019 09:00
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kingcobweb posted:i'm not reading marx. i'm wahtever ideology is the kind who will Not read marx. he's boring Incorrect, not boring just grueling
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Dec 25, 2019 09:06
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correction: boring and grueling
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Dec 25, 2019 09:17
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V. Illych L. posted:no *i* heartily believe the rich to be scum of the earth and literal harbingers of the apocalypse but it's very helpful to be able to formulate why non-scum rich people can exist without it disproving the central thesis that *wealth itself* is really hosed up and produces incredibly perverse outcomes. the moment one gets caught up in arguments based on a certain group being evil one is vulnerable to 'but X isn't evil!!!' which is really hard to counter. much easier to state that it's not really anybody's fault but much wants more etc The correct mindset isn't to think "the rich are a bunch of hideous sociopaths we should guillotine because they're so personally wicked" (because as you mention it causes people to be thrown for a loop when they meet a rich person who is personable and friendly), but to instead just logically acknowledge that their existence is detrimental (though pointing out the terrible things specific rich people do can still be a useful tool for riling people up). It's also useful to focus on the fact that simply owning wealth is itself a deeply evil action. No matter how personally kind a rich person may seem, they are constantly making the active choice to hold millions (if not billions) of dollars when they can effortlessly give almost all of it away while continuing to live an immensely privileged lifestyle. And that's not getting into the fact that all rich people are also actively profiting off of the labor of thousands (if not millions) of people and probably also doing poo poo like rent-seeking. So by definition "non-scum" rich people don't exist. So it's a matter of reframing things such that people judge the rich by the true nature of their actions, rather than their superficial appearances.
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Dec 25, 2019 09:24
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kingcobweb posted:i'm not reading marx. i'm wahtever ideology is the kind who will Not read marx. he's boring tf when you finally finish reading marx https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXf6wxeMFHc tf when you finally finish reading rand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56fngopihOo
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Dec 25, 2019 10:06
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