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So I've got a friend who I'm wanting to introduce to Pro Wrestling, and am at a bit of a loss as where to start. I'm a fan of Puro (chiefly NJPW and NOAH) and to a lesser extent American (although truth be told the most recent WWE match I think I've seen has to be the Undertaker/Shawn Michaels retirement match), but am keenly aware that while Omega/Okada 4 is a masterpiece, a 60+ minute match is probably not the best starting point. Ideally I'd like to recommend them a range of matches from Puro/Joshi/WWE that are relatively short (I dunno... 10-20 mins?) but with good workrate and psychology. Also a range of styles from technical to brawls and spotfests, so that they have a bit of a taste of everything on offer. So I guess the question I'm posing is: if you had to recommend a handful of relatively short matches that represent the best of why you enjoy wrestling, what would they be?
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Dec 26, 2019 12:15
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I'd say pick out a range of the things you enjoy. For example I might pick: A wild and crazy tag match (Bucks/P&P Street fight or Bucks/Luchas ladder match) A great fast paced junior/cruiser match (Hiromu versus Ospreay from Dominion last year) An out and out comedy match (take your pick from Orange Cassidy or Toru Yano matches) A straight up strong style slugfest (Ishii v Suzuki from Power Struggle 2018) A breathtaking women's match (Kana v Sara Del Rey from a Chikara show in 2011) A piece of genuinely emotional storytelling (Kota Ibushi vs Jay White from the G1 Climax) Basically ask yourself for each one what it is that you enjoy about wrestling, and find the purest distillation of that.
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Dec 26, 2019 12:49
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For a match under 10 minutes, Necro Butcher vs Samoa Joe from IWA Mid South's Something To Prove show, 11/6/05. Outrageously stiff and violent. Rey Mysterio Jr vs Eddie Guerrero from Halloween Havoc 97. 26/10/97 in a mask vs championship match. For a great recent New Japan match at under 20, Kazuchika Okada vs Tomohiro Ishii from 6/8/16's G1 card. Also throw in Ishii vs Shibata from 4/8/13 G1, poo poo is under 13 minutes and it made Ishii into one of the wrestlers of the decade. I might also put Jon Moxley vs Shota Umino on there. It's not an amazing match but it is an excellently compelling version of the vet vs Young Lion match, and it's under 5 minutes. You're going to have to show them a match by the best wrestler around today so I'd suggest New Beginning in Osaka, Hiromu Takahashi vs Dragon Lee 11/2/17 You know what show rocked this year? Bloodsport rocked. Barnett vs Minoru Suzuki was the best match but went 25 mins, so instead maybe recommend Hideki Suzuki vs Timothy Thatcher or Masashi Takeda vs Jonathan Gresham. Both were great & under 15. I know it's 23 minutes but let me break the rule for a couple longer matches because I'm a cheat: Kenta Kobashi vs Kensuke Sasaki from NOAH Destiny 2005 & Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness from ROH Unified.
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Dec 26, 2019 12:50
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It's somewhat on the longer side, but show them the Will Ospreay vs Shingo Takagi BOSJ finals match from this year. If you don't like that you're dead inside.
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Dec 26, 2019 15:31
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Last year I made a wee list of matches for a new viewer for an interested friend at work. Don't think she ever watched any of them, but I've kept the list up anyway. These are all imo good shouts for a new viewer anyway!
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Dec 26, 2019 15:36
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HHH vs HBK Hell in a Cell at Bad Blood 04
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Dec 26, 2019 15:54
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Old Inoki matches. Other than a few 60 minute matches, Inoki kept poo poo brief. But holy gently caress could he hold a crowd. I've never seen a dude get that visceral of a reaction out of a japanese audience when asking if he should hit the poor sap again. All the Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid stuff. I don't think they liked each other much. And pick a GCW show at random. They're all loving good.
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Dec 26, 2019 16:35
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Lamuella posted:A piece of genuinely emotional storytelling (Kota Ibushi vs Jay White from the G1 Climax) I think cody vs dustin fits this better. I can't imagine a new viewer getting an emotional moment out of this match without watching a fair bit of other pre story stuff, while the Rhodes brothers thing gets over just from the show itself iirc. definitely seconding high paced matches. I find theyre often the sort of thing that people don't think they'll get out of wrestling. and many of them are legitimately just impressive athletic displays. they've worked pretty well as gateway drugs for me.
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Dec 26, 2019 16:42
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Procrastinator posted:I think cody vs dustin fits this better. I can't imagine a new viewer getting an emotional moment out of this match without watching a fair bit of other pre story stuff, while the Rhodes brothers thing gets over just from the show itself iirc. You're probably right and I'm more thinking of the emotion I had myself for that match. My only issue with the Rhodes brothers match is that it's SO bloody, and blood can be a turn-off for new fans.
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Dec 26, 2019 16:58
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Thanks everyone for your recommendations. The Ray/Eddie from '97 was fantastic, and that Evernote was exactly what I needed in terms of breadth of matches, and I'll be looking into other recommendations too. 
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Dec 28, 2019 07:49
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I would recommend the match between Sheamus and Michael McGillicutty from WWE Saturday Morning Slam on December 19 2012.
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Dec 28, 2019 08:26
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samoa joe vs necro butcher you little poo poo
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Dec 28, 2019 10:47
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Will Ospreay and Shingo Takagi from this year really impressed my wife and helped get her invested in New Japan.
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Dec 28, 2019 11:32
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WatermelonGun posted:samoa joe vs necro butcher you little poo poo And then Eddie Kingston vs Shane Storm
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Dec 28, 2019 11:41
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KENTA/Marvin is the best sprint of all time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpJpe4jZhNA
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Dec 28, 2019 11:43
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I'll toss out a few from early-ish TakeOver era NXT because before I got into watching New Japan and PWG, they produced some of my all time favorite matches. One I'd always recommend and I think would be good for a new viewer is Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura at NXT TakeOver Dallas from April 1st, 2016. That was one I was able to watch over and over and over again, back-to-back without getting burned out. Even now watching Nakamura make his entrance gives me goosebumps and I think it's still in my top 5 matches of all time. Might even be my all time favorite NXT match or that'd be Andrade/Gargano (which I'd also recommend, but it's over 30 minutes if i recall). Next would be Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn at NXT TakeOver Arrival (February 17th, 2014) and Adrian Neville vs. Sami Zayn at NXT TakeOver R:Evolution (December 11th, 2014). Though I think those might be best once they get a bit more into wrestling since I'd suggest checking out all the Cesaro/Zayn matches prior and Neville/Zayn encounters prior. I think you might be able to go in there without knowing the full story as they might fill in the blanks with a video package/on commentary, but I don't really remember. Honestly though I'd recommend all of Sami Zayn's TakeOver matches and big TV matches. As good as Cole/Gargano have been in NXT, no one compares to NXT era Sami Zayn imo. Then if you get them into his El Generico stuff in PWG/ROH/wherever else, just *chef kiss*. Dude's had an incredible decade as one of the best in the world despite having a really quiet 2nd half of the decade. ok now i'll just suggest some quick NXT ones with some variety since i ended up splurging on Sami Zayn and making me realize how much i love him. Kassius Ohno vs. William Regal from NXT TV on April 10th, 2013 Pete Dunne vs. Tyler Bate from NXT TakeOver Chicago on May 20th, 2017 Charlotte vs. Bayley vs. Becky Lynch vs. Sasha Banks from NXT TakeOver Rival on February 11th, 2015 Becky Lynch vs. Sasha Banks from NXT TakeOver Unstoppable on May 20th, 2015 DIY vs. The Revival from NXT TakeOver Toronto on November 19th, 2016 Cedric Alexander vs. Kota Ibushi from the Cruiserweight Classic on July 14th, 2016 I think that's a pretty decent list of "older" NXT stuff that could work out for entry level folks from just a pure wrestling standpoint? Also assuming blood/hardcore/intergender wrestling doesn't bother them, World's Cutest Tag Team vs. The Young Bucks from PWG ELEVEN is one I'd highly recommend.
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Dec 29, 2019 00:28
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i wouldn't recommend comedy matches, at least not for their first viewing. chances are they probably already think wrestling is a joke, I would show them matches that show what a beautiful dramatic art form it can be. Ishii/Takagi from the G1 Hansen/Kobashi from 1993 Psicosis/Mysterio Jr. 2/3 falls from ECW Danielson/Homicide title match, or Danielson/KENTA in NOAH One of the American Alpha/Revival takeover matches might not be a bad idea if you think the WWE presentation would be more palatable
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Dec 29, 2019 00:33
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scott steiner, hhh at the royal rumble austin rock wm 17 flair race starrcade 83
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Dec 29, 2019 00:40
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Punch McLightning posted:Will Ospreay and Shingo Takagi from this year really impressed my wife and helped get her invested in New Japan. just watched this match and it was really really good. so smooth. I haven't watched new japan for a few months and I forgot how good it can be.
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Dec 29, 2019 06:52
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Lex Luger vs. Hulk Hogan from the August 4th, 1997 Nitro. It's not the best-worked match, but the finish alone is worth the watch.
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Dec 29, 2019 07:04
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If I was introducing a new fan to pro wrestling I'd show them one of two things, this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgauGnovoSE or The Scene From GLOW Season 1 Episode 5 "Debbie Does Something" where series deuteragonist Debbie Eagan goes to her first wrestling show. A large thing I believe is that, if you are not versed in pro wrestling, a match won't be a good way to suck you in. If you don't care about wrestling, and if you aren't told why you should care about any of the characters, why would wrestling interest you? The commentators could explain the motivations behind the characters, but they are also calling the action so they won't always dedicate enough time to telling you why you should care (See: The Butcher and the Blade's AEW Debut, where only people who knew who they were beforehand even cared, and commentary just said who they were without saying why that matters). I'd obviously show the HBK/Taker match afterwards, but I want them to get invested before throwing them in. If I had to pick a match (and I still wouldn't pick a match unless I had to), I'd pick Kevin Owens vs John Cena at Elimination Chamber 2015 for 4 reasons 1) There's basically no story beyond "Champion 1 thinks he is better than Champion 2, Champion 2 thinks he is better than Champion 1, and they fight" 2) It's a good match even without any context 3) The person is likely to know who John Cena is. 4) It's a fairly standard match that doesn't get ultra violent, ultra goofy, or ultra bloody, and you can then further point people to matches that fit that particular thing if they'd rather have something like that. So, you have this person invested in the match because they know who one of the people is, the match has a basic story that doesn't require knowledge beyond what the average person would have, and both men have had a lot of other excellent matches that you can point to if the person wants to see more. Senerio fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Dec 29, 2019 |
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Dec 29, 2019 07:53
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https://twitter.com/VerafiedBabe/status/1057037984762028032?s=19 https://twitter.com/VerafiedBabe/status/1057038982167453696?s=19 this is kinda my view of it tbh e: Just remembered that this match existed and I'm adding it to the list because it rules a lot and it's a perfect encapsulation of this line of argument https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxfQ7v_-LjU Venomous fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Dec 29, 2019 |
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Dec 29, 2019 16:14
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Breetai posted:Thanks everyone for your recommendations. The Ray/Eddie from '97 was fantastic, and that Evernote was exactly what I needed in terms of breadth of matches, and I'll be looking into other recommendations too. That Rey/Eddie match may be the best sub 15-minute match of all time. They basically hit EVERYTHING as cleanly as possible, it's amazing.
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Dec 29, 2019 17:16
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god i miss eddie
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Dec 29, 2019 19:50
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Venomous posted:https://twitter.com/VerafiedBabe/status/1057037984762028032?s=19 There's so much great wrestling now that is easy to find that it's not really unfair to just show someone a really great match. They'll be able to watch many more like it. If it's a tag fine, if not, fine.
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Dec 29, 2019 23:49
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I've literally been able to convert three of my non wrestling friends into watching New Happen by showing them Shingo/Ospreay from BoSJ. It's a real, REAL good match
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Dec 30, 2019 00:36
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General rule of thumb is show someone a 15 minute match first and gauge their interest from there. There’s so many good, different style matches under 15 and if that one isn’t a hit there’s a couple more and at worst you’ve shown them like 4 matches of different styles in an hour. I was at a Halloween party and the hosts said they had passing interest in WWE, I showed them Ibushi/Generico/Nick Jackson/Jigsaw, then a scissors death match from BJW, and a Shibata match in about 45 minutes and they’re still asking me for recommendations a year later and all I had to go off was they liked the Undertaker/Mankind Hell in a Cell and RVD
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Dec 30, 2019 00:42
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MassRafTer posted:There's so much great wrestling now that is easy to find that it's not really unfair to just show someone a really great match. They'll be able to watch many more like it. If it's a tag fine, if not, fine. tbh I don't disagree at all, I'm just thinking that there's a better way of introducing someone to the fundamentals of professional wrestling as an artform than showing them something like a Joe/Butcher or even a Rey/Eddie, because they're undeniably great matches, but to someone who has no idea what wrestling is, they'd find it hard to parse a match's narrative without just seeing it as random violence I'm saying this from experience, because I mentioned to a friend in my old workplace that I was into wrestling, they were interested in giving it a shot, and I recommended them Zayn/Nakamura, as that was the match that got me back into wrestling. I checked back with them the next day, and they said they'd watched the highlights, but they couldn't handle it because it just looked like a real gross fight, so it's like, there has to be a better way of easing someone into wrestling if they have no idea what it actually is. It's like, we all know how to read visual texts. We all watch films and television and we might even go to the theatre. Even if there's no/very little dialogue, we can do a pretty good job parsing a coherent narrative from clear and unambiguous visual signs, as is the basis of all good visual storytelling. But there was a time when we didn't know how to read those visual signs as a linear narrative, and we didn't learn by watching the hardest films or television shows or plays or whatever - we learned by watching texts which conveyed the fundamentals of visual storytelling at a level that everyone could parse, and we worked our way up. Wrestling is much the same. I mean, at its core it's a form of physical theatre and much of what I've said about visual signs applies to wrestling, as per Barthes, but it's harder for a new viewer to read certain signs in a wrestling match as part of a cohesive and coherent narrative. We take a lot of signs in wrestling for granted because we're so used to them, because we've been immersed in the language of wrestling for so long, but they're not universally intelligible to new viewers. For a while around 2016-17 I never really 'got' King's Road and 90s All Japan, because everyone said that it was the best thing ever but I just couldn't understand it. I just hadn't learned how to read the signs in those matches as a narrative, and I didn't understand why Misawa threw so many elbows, why Kawada kicked so much, everything like that. I watched Misawa/Kobashi 1/3/2003 and I didn't really get the fuss, but that was just because I hadn't taken the time to parse the signs as stories, as narratives. I love most every Four Pillars match these days, but it took me a while to be able to read 90s AJPW in relation to much modern wrestling. Idk if I'm making any sense, but my point is, as wrestling fans in general we aren't very good at understanding and communicating the fundamentals of wrestling as a visual artform to folks who aren't into wrestling. I'm not saying we need a strictly defined canon or anything like that, because canons breed elitism, but we need to identify matches that convey the fundamentals of wrestling in a way that most everyone can understand. I dunno, I might be overintellectualising this lovely fake sport, but gently caress it, I think wrestling can and should be read as literature, so w/e, here's a post.
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Dec 30, 2019 02:07
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No, this is absolutely a thing, it's why video games and even comics have trouble gaining traction with more conservative (in the less political sense) critics, because they don't have the literacy in those forms to 'read' them properly.
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Dec 30, 2019 02:11
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The best way to get someone into wrestling may be one of those video essay series followed by matches that are part of it. Joseph Montecillo has some really good ones about the King’s road and some indie stuff too. Or for another option, all of me and my brothers got into it via Double or Nothing. I don’t think isolated matches are the way to go though.
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Dec 30, 2019 02:35
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This is probably not what you are after, but I like my wrestling silly. I also like flippy dos. And I also enjoy comedy wrestling. But here are some of my favourite matches that might whet a new fans interest. 1) Kenny Omega vs Haruka. This is the match I tell my non wrestling fan friends is the reason I love Pro Wrestling. A grown man wrestles a 9 year old girl and loses, and the crowd plays along. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTizPJj23QY 2)Billy Kidman vs Juventud Guerrera. This is a great match. The ending is annoying with it being more about Rey and the LwO than the actual two participants, but up until then it is fun. I like how they use all 3 rings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlMjTDLNNok 3)La Parka and Silver King vs Damian666 and Ciclope. This match is a lot of fun. Again, being WCW it is slightly undercut by the announcers laughing their way through it, and kinda demeaning the 4 performers working their arses off. But I still think it is fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BksvEZ1o6ps&fbclid=IwAR0KeyJdLULuWc3jp_PwEAI5NfgcEIC39J-coi0AJbyo_Ox4h2zblnzVeN0 4)Some silliness. Because the only thing better than a hand grenade is an invisible hand grenade. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOcjq4siu7A
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Dec 30, 2019 02:55
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