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 My badHappy new year thread.
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Jan 1, 2020 19:39
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| # ¿ May 11, 2024 13:49 |
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Imo a strong remainer like Starmer or Thornberry would actually be pretty loving useful in the coming year for holding the Government the gently caress to to account for the coming Brexit shitstorm. But like gently caress will I support any centrist appeaser whilst the Labour right are making a naked power grab, they know full well that the loss wasn't anything to do with not being centrist enough, I'd have hoped they'd keep their mouths shut and try to unite the party but they haven't, so gently caress 'em. Get the leftiest candidate in to keep control of the party, and organise in the community to get people loving angry and bring the Tories down that way. Electoral politics don't work anyway. Eat the rich, kill your boss, capitalismus delendus est. Everybody join IWW, that's the most radical game in town that isn't trot or tankie, and loving organise.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:31
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By all means ignore the specified timeframe or the specified purpose. Or the entire rest of my post. Not really sure I should engage in good faith given the above tbh but a Johnson Brexit is going to be very very bad, and regardless of what one's opinions are of why we lost so bad* it's the opposition's job to hold the Government to account, and there's going to be a lot of that to do over Brexit. This is one of many reasons why triangulation is always dumb. *it's because they cheated again, open lies and very obviously dodgy social media campaigns funded by unknown sources. Electoral politics doesn't work
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Jan 2, 2020 00:48
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Rarity posted:One of the main reasons the Tories won is the public is tired of Brexit and wants it to go away. Electing a Labour leader that will spend the next 5 years going on about Brexit is a terrible idea. 'course, when everything goes to poo poo in 2021 after the transition period ends, saying to the electorate "lol shouldn't have voted Brexit then you stupid fuckers" would be loving stupid. Not really sure what to do at that point tbh, since I'm sure at that point there'll be a lot more tough choices/fiscal credibility/last Labour government, which the public will buy hook line and sinker because cheating and lying loving works. That's why I don't think we can win again without an angry and organised working class, so imo we should all get agitating.
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Jan 2, 2020 11:12
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Union membership isn't any kind of commitment at all, just join, and if you feel like leaving, you can (but shouldn't anyway because seriously wtf). The game developers' union is part of IWGB, who are way more radical than most traditional unions so a good shout, but far from perfect (not a great democratic structure, but eh neither are most other unions). Cardiff person should join both Unite & IWW imo - not that I know anything about Unite or charity unions, but the best union organiser I know is an IWW officer based in Cardiff and works for Unite for his day job so if you dual card you'll definitely have whatever support you need. Also if it's not a well unionised industry, IWW's got a Your Job Your Union campaign going on atm (largely instigated by Cardiff people) so if you feel like any workplace organising yourself you will be well supported.
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Jan 4, 2020 09:45
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Katt posted:Criticism of US action against Iran becomes less credible with Corbyn as proxy. Ideally he'd have just not spoken on Iranian state TV in the first place, but eh, he was just some random left winger looking for a platform back then.
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Jan 4, 2020 10:57
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I had a look around this morning to see what he actually said, most of it's been scrubbed but I saw one of him with a shocking take about how actually killing people is bad. The worst thing journos describe is him "looking shocked" whilst some callers said some pretty poisonous anti-Israel stuff (nothing explicitly antisemitic, but very much pushing the bounds). If there was anything worse, I'm sure the commentariat would be singing it from the rooftops. Also found this charming screengrab 
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Jan 4, 2020 16:56
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imo LOTO should speak out on massive foreign policy issues How would it look if he didn't?
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Jan 4, 2020 17:02
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We all know Labour's hosed atm, the solution has to come from without. We need to organise outside of the party, create a mass movement, so that Labour is capitulating to us rather than the Tories or the loving libs. There's genuinely no way we can win electorally without some serious outpourings of anger that the Tories are fundamentally incapable of dealing with. For those of us who are staying in the party, the priority should be keeping it as left wing as possible, so that if we can get the wider movement agitated we're not stuck with some neoliberal fuckwit triangulating towards "still crush the unions, but draw little smiley faces on the rubber bullets or some poo poo" A poo poo useless socialist is better than the best neolib
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Jan 12, 2020 19:32
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OwlFancier posted:Changes of that sort I'm sure would have to go through the NEC. E: I don't feel like sniping today, no gods no masters
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Jan 13, 2020 21:17
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e: ^^^looks like someone didn't get the memo about not speaking to The Bad Jews(r), which presumably includes JVL, Jewdas and *checks notes* uh, the Union of Orthodox Hebrew Congregationsgoddamnedtwisto posted:Notably Fenchurch, the most ineffably perfect of them all, was written at a time when Adams had just broken up with his long-term partner Borrovan fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 15:09
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:And people are nice. The first time I traveled I was shocked to find that being a bitter sarcastic twat wasn't the default human condition That SMG looks stupid and the HUD is useless
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Jan 15, 2020 16:14
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Miftan posted:I don't have PMs Still gonna do that at some point btw
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Jan 15, 2020 17:40
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Junpei Hyde posted:Was told to post ITT
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Jan 16, 2020 09:11
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Has anyone noticed yet that if Big Ben sounds in our de jure leaving the EU, it's gonna be doing it on Central European Time 
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Jan 16, 2020 13:28
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Results of the Momentum poll are in, 70% for backing RLB & a whopping 52% for Rayner (will of the people &c)
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Jan 16, 2020 15:28
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thespaceinvader posted:The sycophancy is deeply disturbing, as is the open acceptance that loving 500 grand is something the coutnry couldn't just. Pay.
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Jan 16, 2020 17:28
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Payndz posted:"Chicken feed", although it was "only" a quarter-mil.
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Jan 16, 2020 17:37
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Might be being a bit obtuse here but I don't really see the need for Momentum to make decisions democratically, because its only source of actual power is having a bunch of members. Someone kind of needs to direct the left bloc, and the Momentum leadership stepped up, but as soon as they start making decisions that members disagree with (or the organisation otherwise outlives its usefulness or becomes toxic) the members will stop following it & it no longer has any power. Any vehicle whose only source of power is a whole bunch of people completely voluntarily choosing to follow it is intrinsically democratic, regardless of how it makes decisions or is structured. That doesn't mean that they were in the right here, where the "correct" deputy endorsement was ambiguous, but certainly wrt RLB I can't see the benefit of having a big ol' "campaign-within-a-campaign" song and dance when it's really obvious who the socialist choice is. E: grammar Borrovan fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 11:18
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oxford_town posted:i know you're all going to call me a centrist melt for this, but I really struggle to see RLB as having broad electoral appeal. starmer, for all his faults, was supposedly coming up on the doorstep a lot in those 'traditional labour' areas as someone people would like to see as leader (versus Corbyn, at the time). Honestly I'd have been tempted to back a unity candidate for the single loving week after the election before the Labour right pulled their knives out & started making up counterhistories, but it's fairly clear that anyone but a socialist will just capitulate further and further to the right and the press, since they won't be happy with anything short of the second coming of Blair. gently caress that. Also, what Kogahazan said. KOGAHAZAN!! posted:You realise this is as much an argument for there being no need for internal democracy in the Labour party, right? KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Contrariwise, if RLB is so naturally the choice, if there's no chance that she would lose the vote, why delegitimise her by making it a coronation? A vote might be a opportunity for division and in-fighting, but it's also a chance to formally secure full seal and sanction for Long-Bailey. Not holding one robs her of that. Although yeah as Aramoro said, this was probably a bit of a gently caress up just because it could piss off the members. I just don't accept the validity of the "Momentum is undemocratic" arguments, regardless of its structures and processes
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Jan 17, 2020 12:41
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Niric posted:a lot of people on the left (both here and in meetings) knee kerk hate everyone who isn't How can a unity candidate work when the only thing one side cares about is purging the other and taking control? e: in fact, didn't we used to have a leader who's literal entire gimmick for a while was trying to bring together the various factions of the party whilst staying true to basic socialist principles, how'd that work out for us Borrovan fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 17:29
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Okay I've had this brewing for a while, it's not directed at anyone in particular or responding to any particular post, but some of the general thoughts that have been coming out of the thread this month (from good socialist posters whom I respect) have bordered on liberalism so I've just got to set out my thesis on the way forward for the labour movement (  incoming):We lost the election, mainly because of a deliberate campaign of targeted lies and very obviously dodgy social media campaigns funded by unknown sources, combined with the absolute monstering of Jeremy Corbyn. We can't fix the lies without being in power, and any good socialist candidate would be monstered in the same way. So the obvious solution (which I see more outside the thread than in - again, including from good socialists whom I respect) is to elect someone different. But that won't loving work. Let's look through our choices:
Well, if by "play the game" you mean "make everyone think you're a centrist until the last minute reveal" (an actual idea I've heard actual clever* people say irl), that's completely loving unworkable since it'd rely on literally every socialist seeing through the gimmick and everyone else having the wool pulled over their eyes. That's dumb. So, we'd have to be talking about a socialist firebrand. Someone who'll just tell the press to go gently caress themselves. Well, there's not so much objective evidence to speculate on this one from. The exact same poo poo that lost us the last election would still keep happening, but we'd have some tricks of our own to fight back with. They go low, we loving kerb stomp the cunts whilst they're down there. So we've probably got some gains on 2019 that way - but, there is no way that candidate would enjoy the grassroots support that Jez did. He might be hated, but he's also loved, the reason he was treated like a loving rock star everywhere was because he is just a god damned decent human being. So, we've got a lot of losses there from no longer having a rock star at the helm, plus some more from the liberals who held their nose and voted Labour to keep the fash out (yes, they do exist, I know a bunch). Some gains, some losses. Considering the scale by which we lost, however you work the calculus it looks pretty loving bad. So basically, we can't loving win. But, here we get to the bit that's been driving me crazy ITT recently: we are not loving liberal democrats**, Parliamentary democracy is not the only answer. If we can't win in the current political climate, change the political climate. Literally every time in history that lasting positive change has happened, it's been because of an organised working class in combination with a receptive mainstream political movement. We thought for a bit that we could do it with just the political movement, we gave it our best shot, but we were loving wrong, we need both. So yeah if we give up the Labour Party to the libs, it doesn't loving matter what we do because we're hosed. We need to keep a socialist in charge, any loving socialist, regardless of the fact that they can't win for now - but, keeping a socialist at the helm is not enough. Get active in the community. Start turning up to your trade union meetings and get people loving agitated. Beat up nazis. Join IWW, organise your workplace and gently caress up the bosses.*** Beat up nazis. If you're the less contentious type, work with foodbanks, homeless outreach, anything that gets people in the community working together as an economic class and united against the cunts (also, be more contentious!). loving anything to build class solidarity, win small victories that help people and show them that socialism loving works, so they tell their mates, do the same thing and the whole thing loving snowballs. And yeah it's easy to say "well that wasn't working before so why would it work now" - but, for one, it is literally the only thing that has ever worked, and it does work, it's just hard loving graft; and, things are very likely to go to poo poo very quickly with a literal fascist oligarch in number 10, not to mention the Brexit hand grenade, which is likely to make getting people angry a lot loving easier. Oh, and climate fascism is coming, that'll be fun! We just need to build the structures now, to make sure that the anger is directed where it belongs: the Tories. Then we can win an election, because the only response the Tories can give to that is brutal repression of the working class communities they've been winning off us with their lies, and the mask falls off. Boom, Tories unelectable, Labour government, social and economic reforms demonstrably making people's lives better, 1000 years of Jam communism. Don't mourn; organise. *in a sense **lower case ***PM me if you do this, I might know people in your area, and definitely PM me if you're doing this & have any legal expertise because I can use you
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Jan 17, 2020 19:00
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Guavanaut posted:Is there anyway of reaching them without going fascist? But, also they like the policies, but hate Corbyn - because of the monstering, so no there's not really any way to reach them via mainstream channels. We can reach them in the communities though. A more active, militant labour movement could point their hatred towards the real class enemies, and maybe if someone gets them the extra holiday pay they're after or whatever they'd start to see that actually maybe solidarity is a good thing. Don't move towards racists, show them why they should move to us. Sticker on the whiteboard in my office springs to mind: "it's not migrants driving down wages; it's your boss". Always gets a laugh out of my actual bosses when they notice it (offer not applicable to higher management, who I really hope never come into my office)
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Jan 17, 2020 20:26
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Guavanaut posted:I'm convinced that once you move up to the lofty heights of The Authoritarians it's all mostly aesthetics anyway. Also, not sure you could cultivate a daddy dom image without losing support from actual leftists.
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Jan 17, 2020 21:37
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 Extremely cool & good & not at all concerning to see registered trade unions & mainstream environmental & anti-racism campaigners make it onto counter terrorism materials alongside banned neo-nazi groups (circling not mine, it came over WhatsApp) e: Graun article, and pig response e2: 
Borrovan fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Jan 18, 2020 |
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Jan 18, 2020 10:20
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:The union that has been mentioned for uber etc workers - can someone remind me of the name and contacts? We're interested in possibly getting someone to talk at one of our CLP meetings. I've been meaning to get round to replying to your last email anyway, hope you're doing well 
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Jan 18, 2020 23:31
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Miftan posted:e oh also she's a leftist which is a proper use of anti terror laws according to the govt anyway 
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Jan 21, 2020 10:44
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thespaceinvader posted:whether or not JJ always intended [redacted] to be [redacted]'s [redacted] e: also yeh I'd read the hell out of that blog idea. It's an interesting one, because so much fiction throughout history focuses almost by necessity on the actions of a few select elites, but the whole concept of "heroes" and "villains" almost certainly has a toxic effect on people's perception of the world Borrovan fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Jan 21, 2020 |
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Jan 21, 2020 10:59
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Azza Bamboo posted:What about muslim tradwives? I can't be the only one who's really unsettled by this:- like, I know right wing sex weirds have been roleplaying this imaginary reactionary bullshit since forever, but it's fashy as gently caress, so seeing it being portrayed as a cool new fad at this particular point in
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Jan 22, 2020 10:01
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Flops backs Nandy e: & I'm sticking with Raynor for deputy purely to maintain Momentum's political influence, we're not done with it yet
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Jan 22, 2020 12:24
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e:^^^ because of the poo poo in JeremoudCorbynejad's post. "I am perfectly happy with traditional gender roles & voluntarily choose them as an independent person" is fine (as long as it is a free & independent choice, which is sometimes iffy). "I am happy with this and everyone else should be too" is not.Rarity posted:How would Butler as deputy PM damage Momentum's long term influence? She's very much ideologically aligned with them. If we end up with Starmer+non-Rayner, Momentum is done, and we're not done with it yet. Borrovan fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 15:06
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Advocating for a "return" to an imagined & idealised version of a repressive past is inherently fashy as gently caress basically, that's literally fascists' whole thing. Live how you want, but don't do that. & don't act like people are wrong for not doing it.
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Jan 22, 2020 15:16
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I do not understand why a RLB/Starmer face off is to be avoided. Especially since the point of RLB is to send a message to the right wingers that gently caress you we're still in charge actually, so a first round win is the best outcome. The thing with Starmer is that it's not so much about how he'd fair as an individual, but how the party would react to him: he is unequivocally the Melt's Choice(r),* so if he gets in it will be hailed as the death of socialism and he'll go where the wind takes him (right). The only question imo is whether it's worth the outside risk of Nandy to keep him in 4th place. Honestly I don't know enough about her to really judge, but if the choice is New Labour or Blue Labour I'd vote for "gently caress the lot of yez". Do we really have vote for 3rd & 4th preference? *Flips endorsement notwithstanding, since she was probably just being contrarian & went with the candidate furthest removed from Corbyn's leadership e: vvv fair. Might as well be the flavour of rear end in a top hat that Borrovan fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 13:47
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Guavanaut posted:It's just the standard one rotated 90 degrees. "If you convert, I will slaughter this now-helpless endangered animal in cold blood. If you don't, I'll sic it on you."
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Jan 24, 2020 15:10
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Urgent advice needed, somebody took just short of 20 co-codamol & is begging me not to take her to hospital. Do I force her? She'd go along with it if I tell her she doesn't have a choice, but likely to never trust me again if she needs help another time e: I've tried persuading her, begging, asking for a favour as a friend, all that poo poo
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Jan 24, 2020 16:36
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| # ¿ May 11, 2024 13:49 |
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Thanks guys, took her to A&E. She has flipped the gently caress out but eh. She'll def get the chance to calm down now, at least. Trust concern was more just worrying whether she'll tell me if she takes a lot more next time, but hopefully she'll get over it. Anyway, how about them Tories, eh
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Jan 24, 2020 17:05
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