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I'm back and forth on the India thing. Actually criminalising trying to get into the country if you were in India in the last 14 days is a step too far (and an attempt to offload our quarantine risks onto some third party country that somebody might layover in) but it's weird to me that people flipped out about the suspension of flights when we did it like two weeks after everyone else. New Zealand suspended flights in the first half of April. In fact it's not clear to me whether or not NZ has also criminalised/banned entry for returning citizens who were in India recently: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/441413/india-travel-ban-lifts-as-new-zealanders-stuck-there-plead-for-help-to-get-them-home
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May 4, 2021 09:26
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freebooter posted:I'm back and forth on the India thing. Actually criminalising trying to get into the country if you were in India in the last 14 days is a step too far (and an attempt to offload our quarantine risks onto some third party country that somebody might layover in) but it's weird to me that people flipped out about the suspension of flights when we did it like two weeks after everyone else. New Zealand suspended flights in the first half of April. Yeah I'm not too sympathetic, I keep hearing about people who went over fairly recently for various reasons, and very few who have been stuck there since the borders first closed in March last year. As far as I'm concerned anyone who left the country after the borders shut did so at their own risk and they can come back when it suits us.
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May 4, 2021 09:43
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I consider myself a COVID police state apologist but I wouldn't go that far. There are a lot of Australians who have family in India, lots of people who want to attend funerals or care for elderly relatives in a country without a social safety net, etc. And there are definitely at least some people who have been stuck there for a year given that the airlines are mostly just running business class flights at 10k a pop or whatever. My attitude is generally: a) the border closures, up to and including harsh measures against India right now, are grim but acceptable; the rights and plights of 20,000-odd Australians in a plague-stricken part of the world do not outweigh the rights and plights of 25 million+ Australians living in a COVID-free Australia; but also, b) the government absolutely should and could have done more to help people get home over the past year, including building or adapting more facilities to raise incoming arrival caps and including organising more mercy flights like they did early on. We bailed out Australian airlines with over a billion dollars of taxpayer money at the start of the pandemic, just grow some loving balls and nationalise Qantas.
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May 4, 2021 09:50
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Picnic Princess posted:
It is quite remarkable how "has a right-wing government" is apparently the biggest and most consistent risk factor for infection.
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May 4, 2021 09:57
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freebooter posted:I consider myself a COVID police state apologist but I wouldn't go that far. There are a lot of Australians who have family in India, lots of people who want to attend funerals or care for elderly relatives in a country without a social safety net, etc. And there are definitely at least some people who have been stuck there for a year given that the airlines are mostly just running business class flights at 10k a pop or whatever. Yeah it's not like people were popping over to the subcontinent for funsies, each of them had to apply for a government exemption to travel. It's not like at the start of the pandemic last year when people were still booking cruises even though it was obviously a very very bad idea and then asking for the government to bail them out when the ships were refused entry to all ports and got stranded at sea
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May 4, 2021 10:05
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How do you reconcile that everyone should absolutely stay where they are for the time being and not go out and that countries should accept whoever, whenever?
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May 4, 2021 10:53
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Play posted:Yeah I hadn't realized people would actually be tested beforehand, that makes more sense as an experiment. But really what it's testing is if someone still brings covid in despite being tested, right?' This happens every year at Oktoberfest in Munich (RIP). We call it the "Wiesn-Grippe" and it usually strikes Munich in calender weeks 41 and 42. Usually comes from all the singing, screaming, kissing and whatever type of fornication that ensues in addition to the mugs not being washed hot&long enough between uses. I remember an article depicting the actual huge financial impact this has on the economy, but I can't seem to find it.
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May 4, 2021 11:30
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Lolie posted:Probably. There's no way the death toll being reported is accurate, either, although I doubt that can be counted accurately. Yeah, the statistics don't add up; you can't have half of the new cases globally, but only have one third or fourth of the deaths for several weeks in a row. So we know that they are low balling the numbers, and we know that they are definitely low balling deaths. And there already are news stories of crematoriums which have the official quotas of 7 COVID-19 hazardous body disposals per day having done "at least 40" each day.
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May 4, 2021 12:29
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No way they will be able to give even a remotely accurate figure until the next big statistics gathering thing happens, probably taxes. Took months for the U.K. office of National statistics to sort out the numbers and show us how many more deaths in comparison to last year, and there is always a lag.
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May 4, 2021 12:35
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Brazil, Turkey, Argentina and Colombia have also had extreme peaks in cases & deaths in the last few weeks which were also undoubtedly underreported by a huge margin, it'll take us years to get any sort of accurate picture of the global toll E: to give you an indication of how badly India's numbers are being reported, their official case fatality rate has not only stayed below the US & UK CFR for over 12 months now but has even been declining for the last month   https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths Here's a CNN report on the conditions in India's hospitals which is pretty  , this is not a picture of a country with an improving covid CFRhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrefKeWuNpQ&t=8s Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 12:59 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 12:47
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Brazil, Turkey, Argentina and Colombia have also had extreme peaks in cases & deaths in the last few weeks which were also undoubtedly underreported by a huge margin, it'll take us years to get any sort of accurate picture of the global toll India has ~6% of population over 65 vs ~26% for UK, so it probably is less deadly for the average person as a baseline. e: I don't doubt that they're under-reporting.
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May 4, 2021 13:01
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Xaintrailles posted:India has ~6% of population over 65 vs ~26% for UK, so it probably is less deadly for the average person as a baseline. The flip side of it is that conditions there are also to secondary infections like a nail is to a hammer. It’s also got the most cases of TB which I can’t imagine pairs well with the virus at all.
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May 4, 2021 13:26
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The sanitation in parts of India is loving horrific is the elephant in the room here, yes it’s got better in recent years but Delhi is basically foul ol Ron with it’s own sentient stink cloud. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_India
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May 4, 2021 13:47
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That’s probably not even the elephant in the room in India.
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May 4, 2021 13:51
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Moderna dose 2 is definitely a bit rougher than dose one, at least so far. Got the shot at 4 pm yesterday, woke up this morning and felt okay. But after a few minutes I felt pretty nauseous, and that's been coming and going for the last 2 hours or so. My wife is fine so far at least. Now begins the long, painful struggle to get my in-laws vaccinated.
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May 4, 2021 14:14
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Bape Culture posted:How do you reconcile that everyone should absolutely stay where they are for the time being and not go out and that countries should accept whoever, whenever? a lot of people are just going "BUT I DID MY TIME IN QUARANTINE AND NOW I GOT VACCINATED SO gently caress YOU I DO WHATEVER I WANT". gently caress, they've been screaming they did their time since last may. and because of them, good people will continue to die in droves. and there is nothing we can do about it other than sigh and rub our temples and keep dealing with the dead. If nothing else, a few countries seem to be trending even better downward over the past few days. Hopefully that's not just weekend lows and it stays that way this week.
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May 4, 2021 14:18
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People who have been vaccinated are not the cause of people dying. Jesus Christ what is wrong with you. You're going to be sad when this is all over, aren't you? This doom fixation is the only thing you have. Best of luck with that.
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May 4, 2021 14:21
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I do not nor will I ever understand vaccine deniers.
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May 4, 2021 14:22
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:a lot of people are just going "BUT I DID MY TIME IN QUARANTINE AND NOW I GOT VACCINATED SO gently caress YOU I DO WHATEVER I WANT". gently caress, they've been screaming they did their time since last may. and because of them, good people will continue to die in droves. and there is nothing we can do about it other than sigh and rub our temples and keep dealing with the dead. The driving force behind spread in the US is chuds who continue to insist everything has been fine, covid isnt real, and will never be vaxxed. Insisting vaccinated people remain in their home bunkers and blaming them for deaths is lunacy when half the country is an active death cult.
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May 4, 2021 14:29
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“Vaccinations don’t work” some idiot, today. Meanwhile on AstraZeneca island.  
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May 4, 2021 14:36
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:a lot of people are just going "BUT I DID MY TIME IN QUARANTINE AND NOW I GOT VACCINATED SO gently caress YOU I DO WHATEVER I WANT". gently caress, they've been screaming they did their time since last may. and because of them, good people will continue to die in droves. and there is nothing we can do about it other than sigh and rub our temples and keep dealing with the dead. I mean this in all seriousness- you should consider speaking to a mental health professional.
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May 4, 2021 14:36
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learnincurve posted:I do not nor will I ever understand vaccine deniers. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/the-people-who-wont-get-the-vaccine/618765/ quote:Millions Are Saying No to the Vaccines. What Are They Thinking? I thought this was a pretty good if overly sympathetic read. Tl;dr vaccine hesitancy is rooted in a mix of tribalism, narcissism and scientific ignorance.
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May 4, 2021 14:40
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Yeh that sweet person who asked for patience should take comfort in knowing that there is a demonstrable difference between their perfectly reasonable covid agoraphobia and this. (E: Fluffy bunnies attitude)
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May 4, 2021 14:42
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My dad told me he believes that vaccine hesitancy is a result of classist racism. To quote him, 'If a rich white person is telling you COVID is no big deal, it's because they want it to kill more poor people of color.' and it's hard to argue against that notion.
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May 4, 2021 14:43
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See my problem isn’t the hesitancy, it’s the denial that vaccinations are working and idea that we should all stay locked down till everyone is vaccinated - Even from people who have had the vaccination. As I said I also understand the agoraphobia - I went 3 miles away from my house after a year and it was totally freaking me out.
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May 4, 2021 14:48
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Having that agoraphobia is fine, but taking that agoraphobia and insisting everyone should have it even if they’re vaccinated is not. The risk from vaccinated people is so god drat low. And if you find that risk to be to high, then when are you ever going to be good with people actually doing things again? Never? Because it kind of sounds like never.
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May 4, 2021 14:52
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FB is definitely rocking what sounds like some PTSD for having done so many funerals in such a short period of time clearly a bit irrational
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May 4, 2021 15:10
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bollig posted:Well I just got vaccinated (Modo). Basically the Canton of Bern (and the rest of Switzerland) is divided informally along the language zones (French and Swiss German; this divide is called the Röstigraben --translates to : hash brown ditch--) and this divide is often a reflection of the greater cultural mores of the greater language speaking regions. And this divide can even be seen in the COVID fallout. For example, at least during the first wave, the distributions of infections/deaths were more similar to their respective language region (outside of Switzerland!) than to Switzerland as a whole. More clearly, the areas in the French speaking regions had similar infection rates to France than to Switzerland in general. The same with Germany and the German speaking regions and Italy and the Italian speaking regions. In the Canton of Bern they have sort of created a scale A-Z of priority. As I mentioned earlier, I am in group N, which for 36 year old non-pre-existing-condition-havers. As it stands the Canton of Bern has only opened up vaccinations to Group L (and have included Group O). However in the French speaking Cantons, they have opened it up to everybody, 16+. In the Canton of Bern there is a city called Biel/Bienne, who sort of straddles this cultural and linguistic divide. And their medical clinic has very quietly opened up vaccinations to everybody as long as you had pre-registered with the Canton. So this morning on their website they said they were open for COVID vaccinations from 10-1 and as soon as I saw this I tripped over my own feet and was out the door. Things are definitely accelerating here, but I doubt I would have gotten a first dose for at least two weeks. We'll see how much time I shaved off but I am extremely pleased. This guy! This fuckin guy... is a genius and a gentleman. He's a genius for figuring this one weird trick out and he's a gentleman for PMing me yesterday to tell me about it. I went today about 45 minutes before official opening time, was about the 10-15th person in line and was finished in about 45 minutes. And the best part is that the first day I'll be eligible to go back for the second shot is MY BIRTHDAY 
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May 4, 2021 15:28
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That story posted earlier posted:1. Try something like “DoorDash for vaccines.” I think this is a very good idea. One thing I've noticed is some people who seem to legitimately believe covid is a problem and want to get the vaccine don't because they aren't really motivated enough or get frustrated with process, finding time to go, where they need to go, etc. It's anecdotal, but I have two friend who both have mentioned wanting to get the vaccine and still haven't gotten it basically out of laziness(I haven't checked since the mass vaxx clinic here started offering walk in, which is much easier, though it's still a 30 minute drive one way for us). On one hand, this is dumb because the vaccine is important, don't treat it like some chore you keep putting off. On the other hand, tons of people will put off things they badly need just because people are naturally lazy. Some friends I managed to help get vaccinated during the week or two after they opened vaccines to everyone by just checking appointments for them and texting them like "Hey this place by you has appointments now" they possibly wouldn't have gotten it otherwise. Basically, people are lazy and don't necessarily have the same motivation that someone in this thread has to go get the vaccine. This is also probably why the the vaccination rate gets higher with age, even well after it's opened for all ages. For a 78 year old, covid is an existential threat you need to protect yourself against. For a 28 year old, it's a low personal risk. So the 78 year old has extra personal motivation to get it that the 28 year old does not. They prioritize it the same level as they prioritize the flu shot, even if that's silly. We probably need to go above and beyond what we do for the flu shot to get vaccination rates to 70% or higher. “DoorDash for vaccines.” is just one of many ways we could try to do that. Things like trying to get vaccine days in workplaces, at popular events like sporting events, integrated into other necessary activities like yearly drs appointments, etc would also go a long way to helping.
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May 4, 2021 15:29
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Mozi posted:People who have been vaccinated are not the cause of people dying. Jesus Christ what is wrong with you. I'm going to be so happy that I don't have to worry about covid anymore I will probably cry. Ugly In The Morning posted:Having that agoraphobia is fine, but taking that agoraphobia and insisting everyone should have it even if they’re vaccinated is not. The risk from vaccinated people is so god drat low. And if you find that risk to be to high, then when are you ever going to be good with people actually doing things again? Never? Because it kind of sounds like never. I don't have agoraphobia. It'll be great when we're at a level of herd immunity via vaccines that it's cool for people to do stuff like we used to. boar guy posted:FB is definitely rocking what sounds like some PTSD for having done so many funerals in such a short period of time I'm glad it's cool for a man to call a woman both hysterical and to make armchair bullshit diagnosis, especially when I wasn't talking about you. Since everybody has to flip out whenever I post, let me make myself a little clearer. I'm talking about the people who got vaccinated and immediately ran off maskless everywhere, even in close indoor places, because they're bored and they did the thing! they deserve rewards! and they're ignoring what medical professionals are currently cautioning against. and it is absolutely still helping to spread this poo poo and kill folks. (ps: for those who might actually care, we do have mental health professionals on staff and we get checked up on now and again. I'm fine.) DoorDash for vaccines sounds cool as hell. E: Oh I missed this one. Vernii posted:The driving force behind spread in the US is chuds who continue to insist everything has been fine, covid isnt real, and will never be vaxxed. Okay, but we're only at 30-ish% fully vaccinated which is nowhere near where we need to be to run back off to normal lives, per all the medical professionals that have been asked. When we're at the levels they've set (which is what, 60-80% depending on who you ask?) fuckin' awesome, let's all go to Applebees. Until then, they do keep asking people to remain mostly in quarantine and the people around here that ignore that have absolutely been responsible for deaths. When I talk deaths I'm mostly talking pre-vaccine poo poo. GA opened up this time last year and has remained open despite soaring infections and deaths. We're one of the worst vaccinated states in the country. Additionally, we're going to continue having serious problems if we can't somehow convince the dumb fuckers who are anti-vax/will never be vaxxed. They're a big part of that 60% minimum. I don't have an answer for that, but we need them to get their jabs, too. Maybe it comes with a free case of Budweiser. Fluffy Bunnies fucked around with this message at 16:13 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 16:06
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cave-syndrome-keeps-the-vaccinated-in-social-isolation1/Scientific American posted:After a year in isolation, many people who have developed an intimate understanding of what it means to socially isolate are afraid to return to their former lives despite being fully vaccinated. There is even a name for their experience: the clinical sounding “cave syndrome.”
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May 4, 2021 16:14
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there's a difference between "staying in your bunker" and "doing more stuff than you could do before, but still with a mask on, and still not *EVERYTHING* you could do before" the latter seems very reasonable to me but a lot of ppl seem to think it's the equivalent of the former for some reason!
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May 4, 2021 16:16
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Classic Comrade posted:there's a difference between "staying in your bunker" and "doing more stuff than you could do before, but still with a mask on, and still not *EVERYTHING* you could do before" and apparently you're mentally ill if you think the latter (which is what's being recommended by medical professionals) is the good one. Which I do, for the record. the problem is getting people to mask up for those events, at least locally anyhow. You can't even make everybody wear a mask that's vending stuff at the local farmer's market in this area
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May 4, 2021 16:20
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:Since everybody has to flip out whenever I post you are extrapolating your own personal hell of being in the worst state and having the worst job at the worst time to everyone else. understand that you are closer to it than almost everyone and from the outside you look a little whacky because you think it makes whatever choice you make or judgement you have about others' choices somehow more valid than the next persons and it isnt what does you being a woman and me being a dude have to do with anything? that's loving weird
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May 4, 2021 16:23
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I've noticed a few different types of people that are vaccine hesitant, at least around me. 1) The Hardcore Trump Supporter. My brother-in-law refuses to get vaccinated and has a decorative plate with Trump's face next to his wedding photo. If you ask him why, he says insane garbage about being chipped and it affecting sperm counts. 2) The Ignorant of Science Person. My mother in law does not understand how vaccines work and when my wife explains it she very quickly changes the subject rather than ask questions. 3) The Dangerously Stupid Person. A guy at work caused an outbreak of covid 2 weeks ago because he didn't take a single precaution outside of work. He still refuses to get the vaccine since "I don't know what's in there, bro." 4) The Facebook Researcher. Everything comes from Facebook. "I heard on Facebook that the vaccine alters your DNA!" "I saw on Facebook that somebody died right after the vaccine!" There are also some people with some more valid reasons. In PA, at least until very recently, you had to schedule an appointment. And, from my experience, most of these were in the 8 am to 6 pm, Monday thru Friday window. I know I've worked several jobs where that wouldn't be able to happen unless I took a sick day, which I generally couldn't afford to do. Now that we have walk-in appointments I hope to see things get a little bit better.
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May 4, 2021 16:27
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boar guy posted:you are extrapolating your own personal hell of being in the worst state and having the worst job at the worst time to everyone else. understand that you are closer to it than almost everyone and from the outside you look a little whacky because you think it makes whatever choice you make or judgement you have about others' choices somehow more valid than the next persons and it isnt you've called me an idiot, hysterical, wacky, and you don't like a lady telling you what you did was riskier than what was encouraged at the time. get over yourself and stop trying to find ways to tear me down for having an opinion that's based on what medical professionals are telling us to do. Dudes use poo poo like this to make women look crazy and you know exactly what you're doing and I'm politely asking you to quit. My "own personal hell" is the state of GA and SC. The stuff I've related in this thread is absolutely everywhere. I am an outlier for wearing a mask anywhere, period. It's fine that I'm concerned about relaxed standards when this place has had inside dining with no mask requirements since last May and we're at nearly 20,000 dead. 1 in every 10 people have had or have covid in this state, statistically. If you live somewhere that's doing better, that's wonderful. I'm really glad if anyone can go do fun things safely. But "safely" is the crux of it. And a lot of people are not performing the correct safety measures. Including at your soccer games, by your own admittance. If people were masking up and being safe, I would be at a movie so fast. I'd go out to outdoor dining. I'd go do so much stuff. But they aren't. A Fancy Hat posted:I've noticed a few different types of people that are vaccine hesitant, at least around me. 1 and 3 are the most prolific around here. 3 is the absolute mass of spreaders like my behind-me neighbors that still went to church maskless and went out to restaurants maskless in November when they had covid because "it's no worse than a cough, we were just sick for a few days". Fluffy Bunnies fucked around with this message at 16:37 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 16:35
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Remaining concerned about an ongoing pandemic isn’t Cave Syndrome or whatever but insisting that vaccinated people are anywhere close to the problem has gotta be something
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May 4, 2021 16:38
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:you've called me an idiot, hysterical, wacky, and you don't like a lady telling you what you did was riskier than what was encouraged at the time. get over yourself and stop trying to find ways to tear me down for having an opinion that's based on what medical professionals are telling us to do. Dudes use poo poo like this to make women look crazy and you know exactly what you're doing and I'm politely asking you to quit. that is absolutely not what i am doing. i had no idea you were a woman until you mentioned it and you're also assuming i'm male, so gently caress off with that poo poo yourself. i also didnt realize the whole stigma around 'hysterical' and thanked the person that educated me about it. you're not acting rationally and maybe the fact that everyone here is tellling you that is a signal that you should consider
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May 4, 2021 16:38
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this thread is getting really bad lately, even for GBS. gas
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