|
Ugly In The Morning posted:why did they even bother licensing the setting? I find myself continuously asking this question with adaptations. Like, its so far removed that you could just call it Knife Runner and you wouldn't have to pay any licensing or royalties to the book author / publisher. Why adapt something if you're just gonna completely diverge? See: Game of Thrones, Resident Evil, Ghost in the Shell, etc. etc. Just make up your own name! In some cases they're trying to use the name of the thing for publicity, but how many people have really heard of Broken Angels or Woken Furies before the show? I don't think it had a ton of pull.
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 20:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 19:52 |
|
|
I am getting annoyed by people going "Well, this is just what netflix does" without thinking about the quality of the show. As if AC was axed after season 2 because Netflix always axes shows after season 2 and not because it was bad and people didn't watch it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 20:12
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:I am getting annoyed by people going "Well, this is just what netflix does" without thinking about the quality of the show. As if AC was axed after season 2 because Netflix always axes shows after season 2 and not because it was bad and people didn't watch it. Especially since the Netflix Curse hits at season 3, not season 2. They axe a ton of stuff for contract reasons on the third season, rarely does anything that made it to season 2 get the axe there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 20:13
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:Especially since the Netflix Curse hits at season 3, not season 2. They axe a ton of stuff for contract reasons on the third season, rarely does anything that made it to season 2 get the axe there. Every TV cancellation is some grand conspiracy. If people are watching it, it stays, if they aren't, its gone. There can be many reasons this happens, like for example the Expanse was promoted poorly by SyFy because they wanted more wrestling and ghost hunting shows rather than scripted dramas. The quality of the show is immaterial most of the time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 21:05
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:Every TV cancellation is some grand conspiracy. If people are watching it, it stays, if they aren't, its gone. There can be many reasons this happens, like for example the Expanse was promoted poorly by SyFy because they wanted more wrestling and ghost hunting shows rather than scripted dramas. The quality of the show is immaterial most of the time. There is some truth to Netflix typically cancelling on the third season, but that’s almost always due to increasing costs from contract stuff kicking in. Basically, the threshold to be renewed goes up substantially at that point, so unless you’re a mega hit like OITMB or House of Cards you’re probably screwed at that point. AC didn’t even make it to S3 and it’s entirely because S2 was such a turd. The review to audience perception gap was really striking on S2.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Why adapt something if you're just gonna completely diverge? See: Game of Thrones, Resident Evil, Ghost in the Shell, etc. etc. In fairness, TV is a different medium and you do have to diverge significantly. The thing that made GOT work in the first place is how well they managed to merge the 20 trillion characters and plot lines into something actually filmable. The problem there was they clearly banked on the next book being out by the time they reached it which, lol Gurm, and suddenly they found themselves having to write a story in a year that the original author hadn't managed in 10. It was, predictably, garbage, for the same reason drafts 1 though 70 of the book is garbage. What happened to Altered Carbon is a bit more worrying as far as the future of Netflix and TV goes. I never read the books, but the drop in quality from S1 to S2 was obvious even if I didn't know what was supposed to happen. But it wasn't like it was irreversible - hell, the series premise basically has the same gimmick that Dr Who has, which means you are always one casting and one '200 years later' title away from a fresh start. It had one bad season and one good season. That justifies a budget drop, which is fine - the first seasons didn't need $20m an episode or whatever to tell that story - it doesn't justify canning it just as it was getting going. It wasn't 'turn away' bad. It was 'S3 needs to nail it' bad. Netflix seems determined to follow the analytics until the numbers drag them into generic mush. I wouldn't mind, there's a place for that sort of programming and I'll pay for it - but everyone else is following them. Altered Carbon was a show that had a really interesting premise that had one...not even bad, just there season. Unless the Netflix's of the world are willing to accept that sometimes that happens, they're going to snuff everything promising out. Put another way, Netflix would have canned Star Trek TNG, Buffy, X Files and Lost, and it would have doubled down hard on Heroes because the first season was good.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 21:23
|
|
|
Pastamania posted:But it wasn't like it was irreversible - hell, the series premise basically has the same gimmick that Dr Who has, which means you are always one casting and one '200 years later' title away from a fresh start. It had one bad season and one good season. That justifies a budget drop, which is fine - the first seasons didn't need $20m an episode or whatever to tell that story - it doesn't justify canning it just as it was getting going. It wasn't 'turn away' bad. It was 'S3 needs to nail it' bad.l I have to disagree here- not only was the stuff they changed in season 1 bad, they opted to double down on it and keep increasing the cliche level over all of season 2. It puts them in a position where you can ditch all the stupid poo poo you put in, but in the process add a lot of loose ends, or you can keep the stupid poo poo, and your plot’s going to be a bunch of dumb stuff about aliens and the adventures of YA summer camp. They were in a no-win scenario after season 2 and it’s primarily on the show runners who wanted to split off and do their own thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 21:34
|
|
|
SALR just ate my reply three times. Shorter version:Pierson posted:Book 3 spoilers: Originally I wanted to see how Netflix would handle the scale of the latter books. Down to the cybernetic augments of former/current soldiers, the over the top violence and torture, and the amount of sex thrown about. Honestly glad it's canceled since, as the past few replies pointed out, this adaption threw away the spirit and tone of the books along with the content. All that's left is sci-fi jargon.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 21:55
|
|
|
I'm glad we got the anime, at least. It's still not a good adaptation of the books, but it was fun to get into that dumb-90s-OVA headspace and just watch some goofy cyberpunk action for an hourish.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2020 23:15
|
|
|
Considering how much money they sunk into s1 Netflix was probably watching the ratings like a hawk.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2020 03:27
|
|
|
I was just so disappointed that they spent all that money to make a fast fun gorgeous show and then they decided to loving ruin the plot for no reason
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2020 08:59
|
|
|
For the same reason Project Power is a mess of 3 different movies meshed together. The god of analytics has spoken, and Netflix obeyed. Edit: It got axed because it was bad, because Netflix decided to make a bad season. There is no Netflix curse. There's just Netflix. itry fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Aug 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2020 10:23
|
|
|
Someone else said it up thread but almost every single change they made was bad. They added a couple good things, but JFC the only good change they made was toning down the 15yo sex fantasies
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2020 01:34
|
|
|
pile of brown posted:Someone else said it up thread but almost every single change they made was bad. They added a couple good things, but JFC the only good change they made was toning down the 15yo sex fantasies Yeah, the more I read about the differences between the books and the series, the more I question the alterations they made for the show. Maybe after doing the first book, go with the generic not-blade runner-private detective stories if the following books are too difficult to adapt? Its not like they tried to make the books into series anyway, and we already have one Black Mirror which has been on a steady decline since the American production values took over.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2020 21:54
|
|
|
How's the third book compared to the second? I found #2 incredibly tedious
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2020 22:24
|
|
|
Der Kyhe posted:Yeah, the more I read about the differences between the books and the series, the more I question the alterations they made for the show. Maybe after doing the first book, go with the generic not-blade runner-private detective stories if the following books are too difficult to adapt? Its not like they tried to make the books into series anyway, and we already have one Black Mirror which has been on a steady decline since the American production values took over. It would have been cheaper and had a better audience reaction if, instead of filming S2, they just mailed every Netflix subscriber a dog turd with a little flag sticking out of it that said “Altered Carbon”. Book 2 would have been pretty easy to adapt if they hadn’t blown a ton of their budget on Anthony Mackie, it would have fulfilled their love of alien poo poo while not descending into cliche, and, I cannot stress this enough, would have actually used the setting instead of taking the easy “immortality is bad!” Thing. Not adapting a book was a deliberate choice that you could see coming from the Quellcrist/Rei stuff in S1.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2020 22:40
|
|
|
Azhais posted:How's the third book compared to the second? I found #2 incredibly tedious It's even less of a noir story, and more overtly political (as in, dealing with in-setting politics, but also the other way too), so if you fell off from book 2, you'd probably fall off more from book 3. It's also kind of a fundamentally crueller book than either 1 or 2, if that makes any sense? The setting is much more mean-spirited to the characters in book 3 than in book 2, and book 2 nukes a city. I read the fantasy trilogy he wrote after AC, and Richard K Morgan was getting more and more overtly misanthropic on his journey to TERFdom.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2020 22:48
|
|
|
Old Kentucky Shark posted:his journey to TERFdom. jesus christ 
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2020 22:54
|
|
|
I know, right? Like, how the gently caress do you get there from Altered Carbon?
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2020 23:07
|
|
|
Old Kentucky Shark posted:I know, right? Like, how the gently caress do you get there from Altered Carbon? It’s pretty clear in the Kovacs trilogy. Men are fundamentally men and women are fundamentally women, even if they’re uploaded into an “opposite” sleeve.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2020 23:43
|
|
|
Also there's some weird biotruths in the books.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 11:18
|
|
|
Strom Cuzewon posted:S1 adds two really great plot points about resleeving (the married couple who fight to the death every weekend, and the cop downloading her grandmother into a neo-nazi) that absolutely nails the theme and tone that the books are going for. They're great scenes! The people who wrote them clearly get sci-fi. \ It's been awhile since I watched S1 but I do not remember either of these scenes at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:17
|
|
|
Shooting Blanks posted:It's been awhile since I watched S1 but I do not remember either of these scenes at all. Typical goons watching shows then  , because I vividly remember both of those scenes and only watched S1 a single time.The couple who fight, I could see you missing that they were a couple if you looked away from the TV for a few seconds. The biker grandma body swap though... that was like a 30 minute long scene. What did you think was happening? The Cop just decided to invite a biker back to her apartment to be nice? The biker was even clearly playing a woman the whole time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:26
|
|
|
The grandma resleeved into a neo nazi stuff was great, the actor they got for that was awesome. S1 had some great performances like that, where someone really conveyed the mannerisms of a completely different person. S2, not so much. It was more notable for one character having two sleeves and acting completely differently.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2020 23:28
|
|
|
Glad to see this show get mercy killed. We watched season 1 and 2 back to back and it was just astounding how hard it flopped in the second season. YA dystopian novel fodder
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 00:02
|
|
|
Maybe Amazon can do something useful with the source material / setting. Probably not though. Edit: Where else are there any hard-ish science fiction series? The only one I can think of is The Expanse. There's Humans, but that's been cancelled back in 2019. I don't know what Westworld is doing these days, but it's probably not it. itry fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Sep 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 00:06
|
|
|
westworld has actually become a much harder scifi series and has nothing to do with a western anymore
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 00:50
|
|
|
Was season 3 any good?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 00:52
|
|
|
Azhais posted:Was season 3 any good? No. All the lows of season 2 without any of the highs.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 00:57
|
|
|
Azhais posted:Was season 3 any good? No.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 00:57
|
|
|
 Then I shall continue not watching it
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 01:55
|
|
|
I liked Season 3 but it is a very different show. At this point it's like Black Mirror but if Blade Runner.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 02:03
|
|
|
Seven Hundred Bee posted:I liked Season 3 but it is a very different show. At this point it's like Black Mirror but if Blade Runner. No, it's just them redoing Person of Interest with the cast of Westworld.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 02:46
|
|
|
The western facade didn't stop the first season from being hard scifi, imo.Mulva posted:No, it's just them redoing Person of Interest with the cast of Westworld. What
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 03:27
|
|
|
What's up with the sour grapes in the thread title? Morgan's a terf-y poo poo, gently caress his holy texts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 05:15
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Typical goons watching shows then Do you remember which episodes? Or am I just going to have to watch the whole thing again? I remember the grandma getting killed by the ghost dude with the stack/spine puller...thing. But I thought it crushed her stack?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 06:19
|
|
|
Shooting Blanks posted:Do you remember which episodes? Or am I just going to have to watch the whole thing again? I remember the grandma getting killed by the ghost dude with the stack/spine puller...thing. But I thought it crushed her stack? Watching s1 again to understand how this goon missed grandma nazi day of the dead. I also had a flash forward mentally from the first dumb Quell scene ending e1 that she's sitting in some kind of alien sleeping beauty tree like 200ft away from where he last saw her because an alien ghost was mad about stacks and tree genocide. The entire scene is her force-ghosting now and it makes it impossible to take the scene seriously.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 09:33
|
|
|
itry posted:What when finch's machine went to war with the other ai, but no fun algorithm of the week episodes then take all the charm and replace it with indie covers of those songs you liked in the 90s
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 09:46
|
|
|
Open Source Idiom posted:What's up with the sour grapes in the thread title? Morgan's a terf-y poo poo, gently caress his holy texts. The show's just not very accurate to the source material. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 11:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 19:52 |
|
|
itry posted:What I mean for people that haven't seen either show and might want to I'll spoil it, but the antagonist is just Samaritan, Serac is just Greer. It's the same general plot of plucky misfits that are morally gray at best attempting to save the world from a monolithic and controlling AI. They didn't really have the time or budget to do it in their final season of PoI, but Finch even blows up the internet and sends the world into chaos for some undefined period of time to win in the end. I mean hell there's even a mind-control experiment by the A.I. in PoI. They share a lot of the same beats, the only difference is "But now there are robot people". And quite honestly that didn't matter super much to season 3.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2020 12:59
|
|