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RealFoxy posted:Nyla Rose, Kris Statlander, and Marko Stunt are people I'd consider a rookie too. It's kind of subjective, but I'd consider a rookie to be someone who's been wrestling 1-4 years and hasn't either been on top of a major indie, or hasn't had a debut in a major promotion. I guess it's also a fine line between "Breakout Year" and "Rookie of the Year" It's also a category that has to evolve with the times. Steve Austin won despite being in USWA prior to his WCW run, because in the context of that wrestling, USWA was nothing by that point. By today's standards USWA would be an MLW level company.
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Mar 6, 2020 16:49
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Completely wild thing that I was reminded of when these came out: Remember when Sid vs Nightstalker was the worst match of all time? Back in the day if you'd ask "What's the worst match of all time?" it would always be on the shortlist in the Monday Night Wars even though the match was pretty old by that point. And now, that was 20 years ago. The idea of it being the worst match ever feels quaint.
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Mar 6, 2020 17:29
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baffled at the love for kevin kelly. I don't think he is WWE bad, but he is so boring to listen to. His excitement always seems phony.
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Mar 6, 2020 17:47
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MassRafTer posted:Completely wild thing that I was reminded of when these came out: Theres been so many bad matches just by big men alone that I'm inclined to agree. To say nothing of some the absolute trainwrecks that occurred in TNA.
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Mar 6, 2020 20:00
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My least favorite match of all time is the HHH/HBK cell match. I'd so much rather watch most of the observer WMOTY winners over that because a decent amount of them at least have some sort of comedic value to me.
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Mar 6, 2020 20:26
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ELP/Rocky continues to be snubbed
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Mar 6, 2020 20:47
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I either agree with or understand most of these but there are two that baffle me. Apparently NOBODY watched the Tetsuya Naito/Shingo Takagi G1 29 match because it was nowhere on the list, which is a loving crime, and how in god's name do people come to the conclusions they do on Best Maneuver? loving Stormbreaker??? I like Ospreay as much as anybody but how that beat out like 80% of the other things listed in the top 10 and HMs is insane. Made In Japan didn't even get 11 votes WTF
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Mar 7, 2020 00:43
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Low Desert Punk posted:ELP/Rocky continues to be snubbed I'm glad it got Honorable Mention at least but it deserved to be so much higher. It was my personal match of last year probably, there was magic in the air that night. HidaO-Win posted:How many active WWE wrestlers have a WON subscription and bother voting? Does old Trips not have enough stans within the company? There's no way HHH was instigating these votes or he would have ended up with 88 votes, not 66.
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Mar 7, 2020 00:53
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Malcolm Excellent posted:baffled at the love for kevin kelly. I don't think he is WWE bad, but he is so boring to listen to. His excitement always seems phony. He's a decent announcer in a very shallow field. His strongest skill is that he knows when to talk and when he needs to be quiet and just let moments happen. He's also very earnest which I personally enjoy.
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Mar 7, 2020 01:16
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A large part of Kelly's appeal (for me at least) is that he's the lead announcer on giant tournament show/tours where you're getting like 4-5 shows a week and he's even more deeply entrenched in those than the wrestling fans watching them, and it builds up a real sense of camaraderie among the announce team because they're spending so much time together (helped by the fact they all seem to really like each other, even Gino!) and it ends up making the commentary more than the sum of its parts. By the end of a G1 for example, you've watched so much wrestling and gone along on this crazy journey of storytelling and insane athletic skill, and it's all been commentated on by this guy who clearly loves and values what he is seeing, and it elevates everything. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Mar 7, 2020 |
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Mar 7, 2020 01:19
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TriffTshngo posted:I either agree with or understand most of these but there are two that baffle me. Apparently NOBODY watched the Tetsuya Naito/Shingo Takagi G1 29 match because it was nowhere on the list, which is a loving crime, and how in god's name do people come to the conclusions they do on Best Maneuver? loving Stormbreaker??? I like Ospreay as much as anybody but how that beat out like 80% of the other things listed in the top 10 and HMs is insane. Made In Japan didn't even get 11 votes WTF I don't really see a point in voting for Made In Japan AND Last Of The Dragon when they're basically the same move. It's like saying Mox's impaler double-arm DDT is a totally separate move from the normal one, or that Okada's discus Rainmaker shouldn't be counted as the same as the traditional one.
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Mar 7, 2020 01:28
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Gaz-L posted:I don't really see a point in voting for Made In Japan AND Last Of The Dragon when they're basically the same move. It's like saying Mox's impaler double-arm DDT is a totally separate move from the normal one, or that Okada's discus Rainmaker shouldn't be counted as the same as the traditional one. Made in Japan is cooler Also isn't that one of the awards you get one vote instead of multiple so it won't be the same people voting for both? Side note, Stormbreaker is a weird choice, not even the coolest thing Will does.
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Mar 7, 2020 01:33
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Things I've learned by looking up WON Rookie of the Year stuff: 1. Jungle Boy still doesn't have a Wikipedia page, it forwards to Luke Perry's "personal life" subsection. 2. There are pretty clearly no hard and fast rules, Matt Riddle placed 8th in 2015 and won in 2016. 3. Dana Brooke came in third behind Chad Gable and Jay White in 2015, I wasn't paying close attention to NXT but how? 4. Continuing the incredible labyrinth of 21st century lucha names, the current Mistico debuted as Dragon Lee in 2011 and placed in the ROTY votes that year, just behind Fenix. Then the current Ryu Lee won in 2014. Some of the Top 3s for ROTY are pretty incredible, especially the rankings. I know hindsight is 20/20 and this is an award for their first year not their upside/eventual career but: 1985's Top 3: Jack Victory, Kenji Mutoh, Shawn Michaels 1988's Top 3 being Gary Albright, Todd Morton, and Ricky Rice, beating out Kenta Kobashi, Cactus Jack, and Scott Steiner. 1994: Mikey Whipwreck narrowly beating Triple H Rocky Maivia placing third behind the Giant and Yuki Kondo in 1995 is actually surprising in the opposite direction. 1999's Top Four were Blitzkrieg, Shane McMahon, Kurt Angle, and Test. In 2000 Sean O'Haire and Above Average Mike Sanders dominated the top two spots, slaughtering the competition of Bryan Danielson, Shelton Benjamin, KENTA, Trish Stratus, and others. El Hombre sin Nombre dominating over Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar, and John Cena in 2001. Actually can anyone explain what the deal with whoever was EHsN in CMLL in 2001? Was this Hijo de Rayo de Jalisco Jr.?
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Mar 7, 2020 01:41
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forkboy84 posted:Made in Japan is cooler Yes, so why would you vote for Made In Japan which is just 'Last Of The Dragon but he drops the guy from half as high and then they kick out' over the move that is actually a finish now?
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Mar 7, 2020 01:42
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Gaz-L posted:I don't really see a point in voting for Made In Japan AND Last Of The Dragon when they're basically the same move. It's like saying Mox's impaler double-arm DDT is a totally separate move from the normal one, or that Okada's discus Rainmaker shouldn't be counted as the same as the traditional one. I mostly just tacked that on the end of my point about the Stormbreaker (and other various weird choices on that list), I didn't expect Made in Japan to be all that high I just thought it would be, like, in the conversation. It's a cooler move than Last of the Dragons imo but whatever, Shingo does lots of cool things. Malcolm Excellent posted:baffled at the love for kevin kelly. I don't think he is WWE bad, but he is so boring to listen to. His excitement always seems phony. As was mentioned above, Kevin Kelly wins by a combination of being well researched, genuinely enjoying the product, having excellent chemistry with pretty much anybody he shares a desk with, and it not being a terribly competitive field. Like, I don't think he's boring at all. Does he have anywhere near the energy of the Japanese commentary team? Of course not. But if he tried to imitate that energy he'd just come off like a bad Mauro impersonator. He's definitely pretty cheesy, guy's got an extremely dad sense of humor, but I don't get the sense that he's "phony." He definitely loves his job and is a fan of New Japan, I feel like that's the one thing that comes across most clearly in his commentary.
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Mar 7, 2020 01:46
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Edge & Christian posted:1988's Top 3 being Gary Albright, Todd Morton, and Ricky Rice, beating out Kenta Kobashi, Cactus Jack, and Scott Steiner. Pfft, Kenta Kobashi? Who'd he ever beat. panicked whispering in my ear for like 15 minutes straight as my eyes steadily grow wider
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Mar 7, 2020 01:50
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ROTY has always been a weird category with tenuous eligibility that seems to change based on who's the frontrunners. Like, Jungle Boy and Karl Fredericks have been wrestling for years, they're not "rookies" by any real definition, but 2019 is when they started working major promotions so apparently that counts? 
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Mar 7, 2020 07:07
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Blitzkrieg ruled. he was a megaman enemy
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Mar 7, 2020 07:13
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the best most confusing ROTY year is that one you mentioned with Fenix and Mistico because it was won by Daichi Hashimoto in an absolute landslide beating second place Uhaa Nation by 2500 points. To which anyone can explain the gently caress did Daichi Hashimoto do?
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Mar 7, 2020 07:23
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I think El Hombre sin Nombre is now Pegasso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6AAtmhOlYY
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Mar 7, 2020 07:29
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Lid posted:the best most confusing ROTY year is that one you mentioned with Fenix and Mistico because it was won by Daichi Hashimoto in an absolute landslide beating second place Uhaa Nation by 2500 points. According to Cagematch at least his first match was against Masahiro Chono in Sumo Hall. His 2nd match was against Keiji Mutoh in Sumo Hall. His third match was a tag with Shinjiro Ohtani against Vader and Vader's kid. In his first year Daichi had numerous clashes with extremely great wrestlers, like Fujinami and Mochizuki. Plus he's a Hashimoto. It seems an easy explanation
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Mar 7, 2020 08:59
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Edge & Christian posted:3. Dana Brooke came in third behind Chad Gable and Jay White in 2015, I wasn't paying close attention to NXT but how? That said, she was doing pretty good character work during her NXT run, though I'm not entirely sure how intentional it was.
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Mar 7, 2020 16:30
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Check out the PWI Rookie of the Year if you want some fun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated_awards 1983: Angelo Mosca Jr. Runner-ups were: King Kong Bundy (Main Evented Wrestlemania 2). Scott Armstrong (Successful regional wrestler). And ARN ANDERSON. 1989: Mike Enos & Wayne Bloom (then AWA Tag champs). Runner ups: Dustin Rhodes. Scotty the Body (Raven). 1992: Erik Watts. 1st Runner up: DDP 2002 was the year of Tough Enough, with Maven winning and the runner up all contestants of the show. 2006: The Boogeyman. 3rd Runner up was some kid named Cody Runnels.
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Mar 7, 2020 17:28
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Davros1 posted:Check out the PWI Rookie of the Year if you want some fun: loving Erik Watts. Jesus wept.
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Mar 7, 2020 17:41
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Davros1 posted:Check out the PWI Rookie of the Year if you want some fun: They stopped giving a Woman of the Year Award in 1976 and brought it back in 2000. 2000 Stephanie McMahon Lita Chyna Major Gunns 2006 Trish Stratus (4) Dixie Carter Mickie James Lita
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Mar 7, 2020 17:49
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Lid posted:I think El Hombre sin Nombre is now Pegasso Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Mar 7, 2020 |
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Mar 7, 2020 17:51
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Still seems like better choices than best new artists grammy
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Mar 7, 2020 20:20
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Edge & Christian posted:Things I've learned by looking up WON Rookie of the Year stuff: Young Lions didn't get any kind of TV time back then, so you only saw them live, which is why Mutoh didn't win. Jack Victory was, on top of being a good bumper, just a shockingly complete worker when he broke in. Not flashy besides the bumps, but a really, really solid worker out of the gate. Angle didn't make the main roster until the last month of eligibility, not everyone was getting Memphis TV, and he didn't like QUITE as can't-miss there. Kobashi didn't appear on TV until 1989 I don't think, while Steiner wasn't quite SCOTT STEINER until he went to WCW. Cactus...I dunno, that one makes less sense in a WON Awards context.
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Mar 10, 2020 05:57
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KungFu Grip posted:Jungle Boy winning best rookie when he's been wrestling since 2018 at least is funny imo Best breakout year would be a better award name
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Mar 10, 2020 06:44
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You're a rookie until you're not a rookie
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Mar 10, 2020 15:34
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I just noticed Jake Atlas got no votes for rookie of the year... wasnt he the frontrunner?
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Mar 10, 2020 15:42
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He signed with WWE and every single person on the planet simultaneously forgot he existed
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Mar 10, 2020 17:31
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Being an industry plant meant he'd been a part of WWE this whole time and thus ineligible to the true brains.
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Mar 10, 2020 17:42
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davidbix posted:A lot of these are pretty simple to explain when you take footage availability and the like into account. Granted, some of the teams ignoring Kobe/Rodman picked Len Bias (bad luck of the draw) or Allan Iverson, but just as many teams passed over all-timers to draft Harold Pressley or Marcus Camby; not terrible players and the analysis made sense in the moment, but in hindsight it's kind of funny. Also for Kurt Angle in 1999, I was a young man with no insider knowledge beyond what was gleaned beyond Mr. Titos' PHAT Daily Column and I remember that I was entirely in the bag for Kurt Angle from his debut at Survivor Series and being unshakably confident that his entire pre-debut vignette game was a long con to make him a clueless heel, so I don't know if I was very lucky or a just had really great eye for talent. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Mar 11, 2020 |
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Mar 11, 2020 05:03
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Marcus Camby was a reasonable selection with the number two pick. Kobe had spent the time leading up to the draft making noise that he would only go to to a few teams, including the Lakers. Camby spent a decade being one of the best defensive players in the NBA and was a key part of the Knicks team that got to the finals and the playoff Nuggets teams of the 00s. Sorry for the derail. Boys Among Men is a very good book about the players who went from high school straight to the NBA, and has good details on Kobe.
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Mar 11, 2020 11:36
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Davros1 posted:Check out the PWI Rookie of the Year if you want some fun: I loved Mean Mike Enos and Wayne The Train Bloom. They were an ok tag team, I think they had a top rope back elbow by Enos onto someone on the shoulders of Bloom.
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Mar 11, 2020 12:04
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The Kobe draft makes sense if you realise not many teams wanted to take any chances on a High School kid. He was the one that showed how potent they were climaxing with LeBron.
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Mar 11, 2020 13:06
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