|
Krakkles posted:The bold part is accurate - the PCM does control alternator voltage. That's not a bad idea. It did occur to me that when I sent the PCM in to get tested, they may well simply not have tested it long enough or in the particular fashion that would induce the problem - it DOES lately seem like heat is more of a factor, so totally plausible. The random poo poo would make me think TIPM, except a 2000 doesn’t have that yet. Pull apart the fuse boxes and look at the bottom side. Is there one under the hood?
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2020 14:37
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 09:11 |
|
|
Can you post a few diagrams? Alternator connector and charging circuits. What actually regulates the alternator output? I did some cursory investigation and it looks like the circuit goes through the instrument cluster. What regulates the position of the iac?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2020 16:43
|
|
|
It says temp data along with monitored line voltage. What is that circuit like? I almost wonder if its the instrument cluster itself.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2020 18:42
|
|
|
Krakkles posted:I don't think it's the cluster, but I welcome correction. Here's the instrument cluster diagram: I still think its the cluster messing with voltage somehow. https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/what-sensors-ccd-bus-239586/ I can’t explain why I think its the cluster because I looked at the wrong diagrams before. It could be anything on that ccd bus messing with voltage. You can try unplugging components one by one and look for a change. Edit: what does the 5v reference voltage look like? I bet its the source of some of the bullshit. rdb fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Mar 19, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2020 19:20
|
|
|
Re reading your symptoms, loss of automatic shifting. It still doesn’t shift? Can you communicate with the TCM or any other module on the bus? I would really like to unplug modules and see what changes, starting with the TCM. Low 5v reference would explain most of the symptoms with the gas gauge and IAC, lovely signals on the CCD bus would explain the gauges freaking out maybe the surging too. rdb fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Mar 19, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2020 19:33
|
|
|
Yeah, when the problem is occuring, unplug things one by one and note the changes. It could be any module or sensor pulling down the 5v reference. Instrument cluster as well. Since its loving with the gauge readings, which appear to come from data on the ccd bus, I would suspect its one of those modules doing both. But that could be wrong, could just be an intermittent shorted sensor somewhere causing everything to go nuts since they all run off 5v. I would literally try unplugging everything you can and see what changes. All the modules and sensors. That ccd bus will require an oscilloscope to check. Hooking a multimeter up to it wont tell you much, unless its totally dead. rdb fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Mar 19, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2020 21:29
|
|
|
Tomarse posted:I'm no expert but if it was a sensor loving about then wouldn't most of them likely trigger a CEL with a recorded error code? It really depends on how that sensor/module pulls the voltage down or fucks up the com line. It could be something you wouldn’t expect like the RKE module. Since we don’t have an oscilloscope or chrysler drbIII its going to be challenging to figure out whats actually going on. Look up diagnose dan on youtube. He explained recently how a door handle caused a no start on a bmw. Others couldn’t figure it out so they just unplugged the module the door handle connected to. No CEL from that. Cars can run with a lot of things unplugged. That jeep might not like not seeing the SKIM but it should run with without the rke module, instrument cluster, tcm, etc. Same with sensors, they can estimate airflow without the maf, guess where ignition timing should be without a cam sensor. They might run lovely, but if you unhook one and all the sudden it shifts or the gas gauge is accurate your probably on to something.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2020 00:06
|
|
|
Krakkles posted:This might be a dumb question, but would something like this provide sufficient information to help? I'm not going to buy a $300 oscilloscope, but if a $30-50 unit will help at all, I'm more than down. It will help in that you can see what the signal looks like. It won’t tell you exactly what module is having the issue. A scan tool with the ability to communicate with all of them would. I am not sure what a DRB3 costs.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2020 00:25
|
|
|
 This is the diagram for the CCD bus. Not a whole lot on it. It should be easy to isolate individual modules and see what starts working. We know the PCM is good, SKIM will prevent it from running for more than 2 seconds so that might be difficult. The person you bought the flashed ecu from might have disabled it.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2020 00:44
|
|
|
It may even be the TCM itself. Monitor the voltage on that ccd bus and the 5v reference when you disconnect it.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2020 00:49
|
|
|
Does the harness that the nss connects to tie into the tcm?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2020 23:35
|
|
|
Fused ignition voltage is always 12v. Voltage is correct. There are two versions of the AW4 NSS, the 98+ has extra pins apparently so it can tell if the NSS is bad or its an overdrive problem. There are guides on cleaning the old one if you want to try that. I really think your issue is the TCM. Cursory research indicates you can drive with it unplugged but will only have two gears and need to shift manually. If you get to the point where its not shifting or the gauges are acting up, unplug the TCM. The odometer and gauges that are going crazy are all ccd bus signals.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2020 02:27
|
|
|
You might be surprised. If that TCM is shorted and pulling the 5v bus down, it very well could be tricking the alt/gas gauge and other sensors on the bus. I forget, did you check voltage on the 5v lines when the vehicle is acting up? Edit: on second thought, how have you determined that the vehicle is overcharging? Multimeter at the battery or the gauge? rdb fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Mar 21, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2020 13:36
|
|
|
Yikes. So its still overcharging with the TCM unplugged. That rules out the two issues being related. It may be multiple issues. In the mean time: https://youtu.be/fvP5btMD1aM This shows the kinda weird issues a ccd bus fault can cause. Can you unplug the instrument cluster and see if it still overcharges?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2020 19:03
|
|
|
Nothing to do with ground. The rke module in the dome lamp was the cause. It was bridging the dome light voltage with the ccd bus and making everything go nuts. Your airbag module is suspect as well, since the light appears to be on. Maybe do the instrument cluster last and start with the easy ones, RKE and airbag Wait, I didn’t watch that until the end. It was a bad ground. But still, when he unplugged that rke module the problem went away. And yeah don’t disconnect/reconnect the airbag module with the battery hooked up. rdb fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Mar 21, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2020 19:24
|
|
|
I don’t think the fan would do it. It shouldn’t be running 30 seconds after startup. https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/ar...-data-bus-r329/ This explains ccd bus and what problems it causes. Can you pull airbag codes? Obviously with the passenger bag removed it should have one.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2020 19:40
|
|
|
My line of thinking: the alternator output is controlled by the PCM. The original pcm tested ok, and a second known good pcm did not fix the issue. So the PCM is doing what it thinks is correct. So why does it think it needs to overcharge? Where is it getting its information from? The gauges freaking out are definitely a ccd bus issue. The information the gauge cluster displays come from the CCD bus. A bad ground between the PCM and alternator could make the PCM think voltage is too low and it needs to overcharge. It looks like the PCM is bolted to metal and gets its ground that way, alt grounds to engine block, and you said the ground there was good. If you suspect a weak ground to a fuse block/dashboard,engine a jumper wire from the suspect part to a chassis bolt will clear things up. I don’t think its a ground because you have been over all of them before. So the ECM is probably getting bad info on system voltage from somewhere else. Since the CCD bus is freaking out on occasion I think that may be the culprit. The XJ is no BMW with 100 different modules on it. Isolating them should be straightforward.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2020 19:54
|
|
|
Krakkles posted:RKE and Airbag definitely both suspect - RKE is wrapped in tape and tucked above a custom light mount, so it could easily be having some sort of issue. I'll unplug that one first, since I think it's easier to get to, and go looking for the Airbag module as well. Unhook the battery before you unplug/reconnect the airbag module.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2020 20:08
|
|
|
Krakkles posted:RKE module, no dice. Looking up instructions for Airbag Control Module right now, but just to make sure - the plan is, disconnect the battery, disconnect the ACM, reconnect the battery, see if the problem recurs? Yeah, I would try that. Same with the overhead console module. If those don’t work maybe the instrument cluster itself. There seems to be a lot of reports of bad instrument cluster harness connectors.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 22, 2020 00:02
|
|
|
Hows the battery ground?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2020 15:33
|
|
|
Is there any direct connection from the battery negative to the pcm? Other than body grounds.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2020 16:34
|
|
|
STR posted:Charging issues are a common enough issue on Mopar that there's plenty of companies that make standalone voltage regulator kits. I think the guy with the broken ram van (Javid) uses one of those. I don’t know if that would fix the lost shifting.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2020 17:43
|
|
|
https://autoprollc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/5-RemyTechnicalBulletin_July_web.pdf This explains how it works.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2020 19:24
|
|
|
Yours is figure 5 single field. Sorry, should have included that.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2020 21:22
|
|
|
If you want, consider de pinning or cutting the driver wire at the pcm and running a jumper straight to the generator driver (K72). The other just to bat+. See if it fixes it. While its cut or de pinned you can check and see what voltage its putting on the field wire at the PCM. Last edit: be sure to leave enough wire if you cut to splice back together. rdb fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Mar 25, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2020 22:26
|
|
|
Could you post a picture of the battery terminals? Are there any added accessories connected to the battery +?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2020 22:31
|
|
|
Krakkles posted:Eep, scary. The terminals look good, nice job wiring. Did I give you the wrong pin? The one thats .6 at the alt is k72? And its showing 12v at the pcm?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2020 00:43
|
|
|
Yeah, makes sense. Try to jumper it and see if the problem goes away. You can’t de-pin the weatherpack at the alt, so the 12v field current on the other pin will need to come from somewhere else. It would also make sense that the TCM could be freaking out about being fed 19v. Not for sure about that one. If you had it disconnected than the alternator should have been going balls to the wall 19v since it sees no voltage on K72. The PCM would be trying to slow it down by supplying 12v. You had it running or just key on engine off? rdb fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Mar 26, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2020 01:31
|
|
|
Krakkles posted:Digging through this wiring harness has ... not clarified things. That mystery plug, can you pull it apart? It looks almost like a fuse holder or something.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2020 22:28
|
|
|
Hows it run with that disconnected? Dark green/orange is an alternator wire. Well, wait, the cap doesn’t bridge those pins? E: there is a whole bunch of dust in there. I wonder if they are bridged somehow. rdb fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Mar 29, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2020 22:45
|
|
|
Wow, that would do it alright. I don’t really drink/smoke much of anything. No worries here, keep your cash.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 1, 2020 02:37
|
|
|
What kind of bee?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 18, 2020 02:33
|
|
|
If you have wild honeybees consider it luck. I keep bees, my most hardy stock came from local survivor swarms. Varroa wiped out most wild colonies during the 1990s. Whats left, around here anyways, tend to be hardy, swarm often, and act aggressive. But they survive. I removed a colony from a very old camper that had been active for a decade and survived a couple poisoning attempts by the property owners. Everyone there got stung, they chased cars for half a mile, but the colony is still going strong. None of the fancy genetics or $200 nucs I have bought have fared as well. They are calmer stock but succumb to mites quick if your not careful. If they are still around and actually honeybees and not hornets most likely there are a dozen or so beekeepers in the area who will come get them for free.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 18, 2020 03:45
|
|
|
Yeah, so, wild be populations in the US have largely been wiped out. There is a mite that lives on them called varroa destructor. In addition to the damage caused by being a parasite, the mites are also vectors for a number of viruses and other diseases. They first appeared in the us during 1990s and took out probably 99% of the wild honeybees. What you see there is a swarm. What happens is the bees outgrow the hive, the queen lays some eggs to hatch that will be new queens, and then she takes off with half the workers. The workers gorge on honey before they go, to the point where they are docile and so fat they have a hard time stinging. Not that they can’t, its just less likely. Bees, varroa and insects have a defined life cycle. Swarming disrupts the laying of eggs in the hive and breaks the life cycle of varroa. So the wild hives that are left tend to swarm often.
|
|
#
¿
May 14, 2020 17:30
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 09:11 |
|
|
Beekeepers are different. I like to wear masks (well, a bee jacket) because getting stung on the face sucks. Also, my hives are registered with the state because I don’t want pesticides sprayed on them. Most beekeepers here are the same way.
|
|
#
¿
May 15, 2020 00:36
|
|