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 It’s time for From Software’s early, uh...masterpiece? series that eventually led to that classic franchise we all know and love! That’s right, I’m of course talking about EverGrace. Join me and Professor Duck on our journey into madness as we tackle as much of this series as we can tolerate/manage to emulate. With three titles for the PS1 (FromSoft’s first three games, no less! please ignore my poorly researched banter in the first episode) ,a PS2 sequel, and a couple of related non-series games like Shadow Tower and Eternal Ring, there’s a ton of history to take in here. We begin the adventure with the original Japan-only King’s Field, with a fan translation by John Osborne, who also translated a bunch of other obscure JRPGs. (Apparently? I guess. Never heard of him until I was looking up poo poo for this OP.  )Awkward controls, repetitive music, bizarre geometry? Oh hell yes, it's all here, and I love it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o36msjYnG8 Fun fact: The save glitch in this patch only affects some emulators, but should work on real hardware! Maybe. I don’t think it worked on mine, so plod on at your own risk if you feel like digging up a copy. Fun fact 2: If you’re into retro PC gaming stuff, this game is also available in a Windows 98 flavor, re-made as part of the Sword of Moonlight game making software, also by From. It’s a real pain in the rear end to run though, so good luck!
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Mar 17, 2020 23:51
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 13:29 |
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DEAR GOD THE SOUND DESIGN IN THIS GAME 
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Mar 18, 2020 00:11
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Professor Duck posted:DEAR GOD THE SOUND DESIGN IN THIS GAME Kinda makes you appreciate the ambient environmental tracks in the Souls series all the more.
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Mar 18, 2020 01:32
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The original King's Field...it's amazing to me to see an LP of any of them, let alone the first game! I'd really like to play this myself, since I'm only familiar with the King's Field titles released in the US, and I loved them despite their...issues. Something to bear in mind, is that the Sony Playstation (PSX) was released on December 3rd, 1994 in Japan. This game was released on December 16th, 1994. That dates this game as a title pretty drat close to the console's first launch...meaning all of what you're seeing now was absolutely mindblowing back in that era to those without access to a PC. This game also has historic significance, being the first-ever fully-3D (no sprites) action-RPG ever made. While Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss (March 1992) and also The Elder Scrolls: Arena (March 1994) would predate this, both of those games utilized sprites instead of rendered 3D models for the myriad NPCs and monsters. By today's standards, it's incredibly ugly, even for a small independent studio, but this was in the tail-end 1994. I'll never forgive X/Cross opening the menu, but I'll throw credit where it's due for working within the limitations of extremely new and untested technology for the time. All that said, this is still a Fromsoft game. I fully expect to see the game playing some really nasty tricks on you, and their disturbingly strong knack for creating a dark, depressing atmosphere full of misery waiting to sink its claws into another victim.
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Mar 18, 2020 02:52
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Looks like they took the system limitations and ran with it to create the bleakness - low draw distance makes for dark, foggy environments, few actors on screen at one time also works if you want things to seem lonely and foreboding. [edit]maybe not so similar to ultima underworld, the beginning felt like it but it's quickly turned much more actiony and the level design seems way less vertical. I wonder if that's also an engine limitation or just wasted opportunity that the level design is so flat? I heard they used a souped-up version of this engine to make armored core - it definitely looks similar... Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Mar 18, 2020 |
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Mar 18, 2020 12:02
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Oh awesome! I've been real interested in this series recently after the folks over at Duckfeed did a two episode special on Kings Field US. I tried the game myself, but unsurprisingly it's an unplayable mess so I can't wait to watch this.
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Mar 18, 2020 15:08
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I loved King's Field 2 once upon a time but my god has it ever aged poorly. Interested in this nevertheless!
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Mar 18, 2020 17:00
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Crazy Achmed posted:Looks like they took the system limitations and ran with it to create the bleakness - low draw distance makes for dark, foggy environments, few actors on screen at one time also works if you want things to seem lonely and foreboding. [edit]maybe not so similar to ultima underworld, the beginning felt like it but it's quickly turned much more actiony and the level design seems way less vertical. I wonder if that's also an engine limitation or just wasted opportunity that the level design is so flat? So far in playing it (and this is consistent with my memories of the original US game), it reminds me of a LOT of early 8 and 16 bit JRPGs. Stuff like Ys, or even the original Dragon Quest, where the damage math means the start of the game is excruciatingly punishing, and then your attack output starts to increase exponentially from there. There’s a pattern to it where you have to re-tread your steps as part of exploring, but as you do so, you get to see your boosted stats and skills really have a tangible effect. It’s a pattern they’ve been improving on for decades, and it’s neat to see that really starting for them at day one. If in a significantly clunkier form anyway.
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Mar 18, 2020 21:10
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Is there any chance you could reduce the stereo-separation of your commentary please? When it's each a bit to the side so to speak it's usually fine but when each commentator's voice is heard in only one ear it becomes difficult for me to listen to. Luckily I can switch my audio to mono temporarily but it's still kind of annoying to have to go switch to mono then back to stereo when the video finishes and the next one on my watchlist begins, so I'd really appreciate if you mixed the tracks somewhat closer together on your end.
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Mar 18, 2020 21:40
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Sure! I should be able to wing that. We just switched back to me playing for King’s Field, so I may have some kinks to work out. (Like my own voice sounding like I’m in a goddamn cave for some reason I haven’t quite figured out yet.)
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Mar 18, 2020 21:44
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Dewgy posted:Sure! I should be able to wing that. We just switched back to me playing for King’s Field, so I may have some kinks to work out. (Like my own voice sounding like I’m in a goddamn cave for some reason I haven’t quite figured out yet.) Looking at the first video's footage, maybe it's because you are in a cave (which may or may not be damned by some deity) But seriously, thanks!
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Mar 18, 2020 21:47
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By this point I really have almost no idea what the protagonist even wants to accomplish in that old tomb (I'm guessing it probably has something to do with that Dragon of the Forest, for lack of other options). Does the manual offer more info, or was FromSoft already experimenting with what would become Dark Souls' approach to storytelling?
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Mar 19, 2020 02:07
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Carpator Diei posted:By this point I really have almost no idea what the protagonist even wants to accomplish in that old tomb (I'm guessing it probably has something to do with that Dragon of the Forest, for lack of other options). Does the manual offer more info, or was FromSoft already experimenting with what would become Dark Souls' approach to storytelling? According to this very blurry scan translation, the base plot is that we’re trying to find our father, captain of the guard, who was investigating an invading army and found a whole bunch of monsters. It’s definitely very minimalist like the Souls games, but it’s tough to say how intentional it is for a game this old.
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Mar 19, 2020 02:24
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jagE37iIw8 The journey continues! My hatred for houseplants and arachnids knows no bounds. Also, it just struck me while editing this together just how much that one key looks like the Xbox logo. Did From know something we didn't!? Probably not. Also: Zanzibar Ham, or anyone else who cares, let me know how I did on the audio mixing this time through. 
Dewgy fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Mar 19, 2020 |
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Mar 19, 2020 16:10
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Dewgy posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jagE37iIw8 I discovered I suck as a GPS
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Mar 19, 2020 17:04
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Dewgy posted:Also: Zanzibar Ham, or anyone else who cares, let me know how I did on the audio mixing this time through. I've just started watching, and to me it's much improved. I dunno why just picking up each voice even barely with the other ear makes it stop bothering me but I can't argue with the result. Thanks for making the change!
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Mar 19, 2020 19:06
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I do get some weird sense of fun playing King's Field, I love the exploration and the sense of discovery, wish there were more modern games with a vibe like that. There's someone making a game that's very KF inspired (along with other inspirations like Arx Fatalis and Ultima Underworld) called Monomyth, but whether it will be good or even release is a mystery  King's Field 1 runs at like... 20 fps, except a good portion of the time it just straight up drops to the mid 10s, but at least it's not like King's Field 2 (KF 1 US) where sometimes it goes to 30, then drops to the 20 somethings and then to the mid 10s in the span of a couple of seconds... It's wildly inconsistent and I didn't beat it because it gave me headaches playing on an emulator. Good luck on the LP, and I hope you guys get to KF 4 cause I like that one the most, despite issues.
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Mar 19, 2020 21:30
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It's not very obvious, but those dragon tree fruit are also extra lives, if you die with one on you, it will bring you back to the fountain.
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Mar 19, 2020 22:14
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Big Scary Owl posted:very KF inspired   Wow, you uhhhh weren't kidding. 
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Mar 19, 2020 22:36
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Dewgy posted:
I found this video showing gameplay of a closed alpha last month: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNHDiTLlZXM Honestly it looks pretty alright in my opinion, here's hoping they keep working on it. I'll stop derailing the thread now though. I remember playing the Sword of Moonlight remake of KF1 and it ran well on Windows 10, but it feels... I don't know, weird? Off somehow? At least it runs well.
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Mar 19, 2020 23:08
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Big Scary Owl posted:I found this video showing gameplay of a closed alpha last month: No worries, don’t take my amazement as disapproval. If there’s some kind of upcoming “king’s field”-like revival brewing somehow, I am 100% for it!
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Mar 20, 2020 01:40
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Dewgy posted:No worries, don’t take my amazement as disapproval. If there’s some kind of upcoming “king’s field”-like revival brewing somehow, I am 100% for it! Please tell me that the sound design is better...my ears and brain hurt from this one
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Mar 20, 2020 19:39
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I bet the Mirror of Truth is either going to be used to uncover invisible floors or uncover a doppelganger.
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Mar 22, 2020 01:16
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Scalding Coffee posted:I bet the Mirror of Truth is either going to be used to uncover invisible floors or uncover a doppelganger. It's used to display some bit of information about characters and monsters in the game. You have to be looking at them and use it.
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Mar 22, 2020 01:24
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That's been my least favorite thing about the game so far. There's next to no information provided. Here's a new weapon! Is it better than the one I had before? Uh....who knows! What does this item do? Who can say? I'm glad there's at least something that tells you a little bit about the monsters.
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Mar 22, 2020 02:05
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There is no excuse to put on equipment without a stats screen.
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Mar 22, 2020 02:21
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Scalding Coffee posted:There is no excuse to put on equipment without a stats screen. I think there is a stats screen? One flashed up briefly while menus were being poked through for something else. That said, it was so briefly that I couldn't tell how useful it would be, and you really shouldn't have to go back to a stats screen every time you change equipment to see what was affected.
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Mar 22, 2020 07:55
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malkav11 posted:I think there is a stats screen? One flashed up briefly while menus were being poked through for something else. That said, it was so briefly that I couldn't tell how useful it would be, and you really shouldn't have to go back to a stats screen every time you change equipment to see what was affected. Well, there IS a status screen. I think he more means that the armor and weapons we pick up don't explicitly tell you if something is "better" without having to equip stuff and compare from the status screen. I feel both ways--the info is there, but its cumbersome to have to check and re-check everything you have to find out if its worth keeping.
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Mar 22, 2020 18:21
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Yeah, the first two King's Field games are really bad about this, they straight up don't tell you what the equipment stats are or what items do so you have to use a guide or something. Not even the manual helps. King's Field 3, despite having an item description button, doesn't show you the equipment stats either so you have to open the stats menu too. Shadow Tower is much better about all of this, although it released much later than the first 3 KF games. It's also a more direct Souls series analogue.
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Mar 22, 2020 19:07
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I've never played a King's Field game, but I feel like I would have a lot of fun with a modern take on the idea. I was a big fan of Dark Souls for the exploration aspect. There definitely need to be more dungeon crawlers in this vein. That being said, I think I would hate actually playing the King's Field games, at least the first two for sure. The slow, plodding nature of everything coupled with the total lack of info... eh. I am quite enjoying this LP so far, though. Had quite a few good laughs at Dewgy and Duck's running commentary.
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Mar 23, 2020 03:37
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So it turns out we discovered that mirror bit on our own! And thanks to the magic of extremely long rendering times, we can now show you that after this discussion has already taken place. I was just expecting it to tell the bard how much he sucks, but hey, it worked out for us. Also, lessons learned far too late on how inexpensive healing items are, like drat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmLpK8DV8pc And I kind of hope we get another mirror because screw you grumpy wizard guy, you didn't even ask! You just took! 
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Mar 23, 2020 20:01
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Dewgy posted:So it turns out we discovered that mirror bit on our own! And thanks to the magic of extremely long rendering times, we can now show you that after this discussion has already taken place. It looks like on the map, we get another one later  of course, that might not be 100% accurate
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Mar 23, 2020 20:10
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Incredible how even though I beat this somewhat recently I don't recall the earth, water, etc seal stone as items at all. Also good thing you guys are progressing quickly cause when I played this I kept hugging the walls all the time searching for secret passages  Everytime I see any of the KF games I wonder what it would be like if they attempted a new one, but perhaps the only way it would be relevant would be to make a new one a VR game. King's Field and Echo Night would be a nice fit for VR imo, although I'm not sure how combat would be like in a KF VR game. Although the slowness of the movement and combat could still be maintained and kept as a nostalgic design choice and also as a way to avoid motion sickness 
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Mar 24, 2020 02:52
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It would be a harp that summons bridges over pits. Of course.
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Mar 24, 2020 03:17
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Big Scary Owl posted:Everytime I see any of the KF games I wonder what it would be like if they attempted a new one, but perhaps the only way it would be relevant would be to make a new one a VR game. King's Field and Echo Night would be a nice fit for VR imo, although I'm not sure how combat would be like in a KF VR game. Although the slowness of the movement and combat could still be maintained and kept as a nostalgic design choice and also as a way to avoid motion sickness I’m a big From fan, and I really liked Deracine, and what I’m trying to say here is stick it into my veeeeeeeins!!! There’s a janky VR dungeon crawler called Crystal Rift that almost gets the feeling right, but it’s more of a grid based RPG than a King’s Field clone. Scalding Coffee posted:It would be a harp that summons bridges over pits. Of course. Why what could possibly be more logical?
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Mar 24, 2020 03:39
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We're back with more! The power curve kind of... breaks in this one. That's not a complaint, but it really backs up what I mentioned before about this having old school JRPG math. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKIXb5ZSwEQ And for anyone who watched our FF4:FE videos, this episode features the return of FURIOUS TAPPING!!! Dewgy fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 20:54
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You are basically immortal at this point. A brief speed toggle gets you back to fighting shape. Now that is an OP weapon.
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Mar 27, 2020 04:36
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This is a great LP. I've only played King's Field 2 so it's interesting to see what they kept for the sequel and what they removed. I actually loved the sound design as a kid as everything was so weird and alien sounding it added to the terror of all the monsters  For the sword shooting magic - in KF2 all the endgame swords had special attacks you could use by pressing a combination of buttons. I think it was square then triangle for a weak attack, and square, triangle, circle for a strong attack. It might be worth trying something like that with the sword and see if it works.
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Mar 27, 2020 14:14
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In this game there are prerequisites for sword magic, you need to have the title of sword master, that is have 60+ magic and physical stats and you may need to "remember it" as well on top of the awkward execution of pressing the magic button mid swing. spoilers just in case you wanted to figure it out yourself.
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Mar 27, 2020 19:00
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 13:29 |
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BrokenLink posted:In this game there are prerequisites for sword magic, you need to have the title of sword master, that is have 60+ magic and physical stats and you may need to "remember it" as well on top of the awkward execution of pressing the magic button mid swing. spoilers just in case you wanted to figure it out yourself. Man, what is all that garbage? There is nothing about this that seems straightforward except smacking things in the face
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Mar 27, 2020 19:29
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