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Leaning towards underpaying talent after huge TV deals; if you're bringing in tons of money and have just put NXT on national TV then pay the contracted talent like they are.
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Mar 28, 2020 04:21
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Underpaying talent is the thing, but man I had to think about it for a bit.
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Mar 28, 2020 12:49
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It's not too hard to tell which is worse, but I really wanted to vote for the Revival burial...
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Mar 28, 2020 13:38
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Was the Revival burial before or after Stephanie said they would start featuring LGBT friendly storylines?
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Mar 28, 2020 14:03
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Revival burial is worse because the power imbalance is worse there. When you’re signing a contract, you can at least walk away. Once you sign and Vince is loving you over, you can’t even escape to another promotion.
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Mar 28, 2020 14:33
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bartok posted:Was the Revival burial before or after Stephanie said they would start featuring LGBT friendly storylines? Years after
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Mar 28, 2020 15:54
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TTBF posted:Years after And iirc they still have yet to do s single one. Plenty of gay panic though.
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Mar 30, 2020 06:54
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https://twitter.com/NY64Tournament/status/1244675020787527680 Saudi Propaganda and Underpaying Talent both advanced.
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Mar 30, 2020 18:24
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Effectively killing all indies in the UK vs driving a guy to insanity over a super racist t-shirt then trying to gaslight him is a very hard choice
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Mar 30, 2020 18:58
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RealFoxy posted:Effectively killing all indies in the UK vs driving a guy to insanity over a super racist t-shirt then trying to gaslight him is a very hard choice The effect it's clearly had on ACH is what pushes it over the edge for me. Not to say that people didn't or aren't suffering because of the UK thing, but WWE is literally built on the corpses of dead companies. The absolute senseless of the ACH situation makes it worse. With a single tone-deaf move they not only ruined a talent they could've made money on, but they seemingly drove him out of the business.
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Mar 30, 2020 20:10
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flashy_mcflash posted:The absolute senseless of the ACH situation makes it worse. With a single tone-deaf move they not only ruined a talent they could've made money on, but they seemingly drove him out of the business.
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Mar 30, 2020 21:03
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Better Than You posted:ACH worked an AAW show back in February. Granted this was a while back and before everything went to hell but I don't think he's out of the business just yet. That's good to hear, I feel like he just fell off the radar (understandably) but it also seems pretty clear that the situation hosed him up mentally.
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Mar 30, 2020 21:17
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Wow! that is one racist t-shirt. I kinda see what they were going for what with Jordan Myles rhyming with smiles but it clearly looks like blackface imagery. At least it got ACH out of WWE where his ceiling was being criminally misused on the main roster like Apollo Crews.
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Mar 30, 2020 21:56
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WWE killing or trying to kill smaller promotions is just part of it's business model. It's bad, but not ground breaking. What struck me about the ACH shirt scenario was instead of going "Whoops, we made a racist shirt because we rushed them and forgot to listen to talent. Our bad, it will never happen again." Which still would have been lovely, but would have been understandable. Instead they went "It's not racist, only a racist could see it as being racist. Anyway, we asked the *Arrested Development voice: He didn't OK it.
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Mar 31, 2020 02:28
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Yeah, even if the Euro thing is arguably more damaging and systematic its also less shocking as its just the thing WWE's been doing forever and how they got big in the first place. The whole ACH incident just turns the stomach from the shirt in the first place to HHH and WWE trying to blame him for it to people trying to spin WWE as the saviors trying to give ACH mental help to just the whole thing doing such a number on the guy. And its not like that kind of casual racism or treatment of its POC employees is any less systematic in WWE. ACH just had the audacity to speak out and get upset about it.
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Mar 31, 2020 02:33
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Road Dogg preferred the gray
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Mar 31, 2020 02:40
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https://twitter.com/NY64Tournament/status/1244808037132623872
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Mar 31, 2020 03:11
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I'm not sure I've ever fully grasped the specific outrage at the plane thing. Like of course I'm outraged that WWE works with KSA and covers up for their poo poo, but that has its own entry. I guess I'm offended that they pulled that "some people are dedicated enough to get to RAW" thing but it feels like typical WWE poo poo. But I'm not sure I ever really grasped what the specific thing on this is. Like... I never thought the Saudi government was gonna murder 50 American pseudo celebrities over a relatively minor financial spat and even if they had I'm not sure that's exactly WWE's action. This is of course in no way a defense of WWE in anyway. I just don't quite get its #1 seeding and am vaguely leaning towards the 16 seed. Someone explain to me why I'm wrong. Because I'm definitely open to the idea that I'm missing something obvious. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 03:21
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I can't remember the full story but the rumor was McMahon tried to hold the prince up over the prince not paying for the previous show. The plane being grounded and surrounded by armed guards was a result of that.
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Mar 31, 2020 03:23
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TTBF posted:I can't remember the full story but the rumor was McMahon tried to hold the prince up over the prince not paying for the previous show. The plane being grounded and surrounded by armed guards was a result of that. Yeah, but that just feels like lovely bad actors with money on both sides. Like I guess the thing I'm missing might just be me being really callous about the psychological and emotional affect of being held in a plane in a foreign country with armed guards even if logically you know you're probably not going to be killed?
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Mar 31, 2020 03:27
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Vince put a lot of peoples lives in danger all on the same day and in the same place entirely because of his own stupidity and hubris, and not understanding that he did not have leverage in a situation that he created. Even if you don't think the wrestlers would ever be killed, none of the people who had to go through that are like LeBron James level where they for sure wouldn't be killed. Khashoggi wasn't a nobody either
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Mar 31, 2020 03:49
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Khashoggi was a political enemy exposing serious poo poo, though. The WWE wrestlers were pawns over a minor financial dispute. But again, I think the speed bump for me is that I'm too focused on the practical likelihood of something bad happening to the WWE wrestlers and wasted too must thought debating that with posters and not considering that humans just get scared and that would have been a scary situation no matter what and WWE in some way put them in that position as pawns in their financial dealings (and then publicly shamed them for it).
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Mar 31, 2020 03:54
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idk. They at least arrest a lot of people and it's horribly evil to create and put your employees in that situation. I am Camauro and would rather be bullied 100 times by a dumb rear end than spend 5 minutes in the shoes of any of those wrestlers during that time. knowing who got out on private jets or other arrangements and that you're the 'others' left there for an indeterminate amount of time
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Mar 31, 2020 04:11
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Was the Lio Rush situation ever clarified at all? Seems to me that driving two young black wrestlers completely away from the company would start to look like a pattern. I know Lio got a little bit of a push recently, but is he gone again?
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Mar 31, 2020 04:17
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No, I think you/I have convinced me that it at least beats out the Mauro thing. Which is bad but doesn't strike me as big as much of the other stuff either. But yeah, I think I just need to get past the question of whether or not they were really in danger and to just be more sensitive to what a harrowing experience it would have been regardless of that. I still think I disagree with it being the #1 seed but looking at the brackets I guess I don't really see it challenged until/if it locks up against the ACH thing. The other side of the brackets looks tougher, but the #1 seed should have the easier path to the finals. So good job bracketmaking!
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Mar 31, 2020 04:17
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probably one of the biggest issues with the bullying situation is that I don't know if there is a deeply agreed upon line about where it becomes promotional. for some people it would fall on protecting Graves and for others it's the whole issue
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Mar 31, 2020 04:21
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flashy_mcflash posted:Was the Lio Rush situation ever clarified at all? Seems to me that driving two young black wrestlers completely away from the company would start to look like a pattern. I know Lio got a little bit of a push recently, but is he gone again? Lio's last match thus far was last month I posted about it in the WWE thread but he's likely done at least for right now; he doesn't want to/feel comfortable to compete during the coronavirus situation, and he'd rather focus on music https://www.forbes.com/sites/alfred...c/#66dd11167bfa I posted about it in the social media thread but this week he's doing weekly livestreams (3 a day) with special guests from the indies, including wrestlers, refs, announcers, etc, whose schedules are currently free due to the coronavirus situation making their short-term and long-term future more questionable. At the end of each stream Lio will provide a link to the talent's CashApp, Paypal, or merch page, encourage fans to donate, and make his own donations Today he had Joe Keys, Larry Legend and Shazza McKenzie Tuesday he has KC Navarro, Brian Pillman Jr and Anthony Bowens Wednesday is Jordan Oliver, Allie Kat and Kevin Bennett Thursday's Jaxon Stone, Tre Lamar and Anthony Henry Friday's Thunder Rosa, Alex Hammerstone and referee Odie Brown Saturday is Darius Lockhart, Eli Everfly and Ariane Andrew Sunday's the last day, with Tony Deppen, Alexander James and Ken Dixon https://twitter.com/itsLioRush/status/1244669386159423491
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Mar 31, 2020 04:34
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I feel like Saudi propaganda deserves to win every year. Maybe it shouldn't even be in the tourney and every winner has to go up against Saudi propaganda to see if it can dethrone it. The Saudi plane incident is just some weirdness that's related to the deal, to me it doesn't come close to taking that money and doing good press for the Saudis.
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Mar 31, 2020 05:24
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That moment when you realize that Vince has been doing Saudi propaganda for free.
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Mar 31, 2020 05:46
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NowonSA posted:I feel like Saudi propaganda deserves to win every year. Maybe it shouldn't even be in the tourney and every winner has to go up against Saudi propaganda to see if it can dethrone it. The Saudi plane incident is just some weirdness that's related to the deal, to me it doesn't come close to taking that money and doing good press for the Saudis. I will probably put the Saudi stuff in the hall of fame after this tournament and only add it in when they add new twists on the Saudi stuff like the plane incident. So there will definitely be another Saudi entry next year, let's just accept it.
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Mar 31, 2020 06:15
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STAC Goat posted:Khashoggi was a political enemy exposing serious poo poo, though. The WWE wrestlers were pawns over a minor financial dispute. I wouldn't expect them to be killed, but put in prison due to 'work visa issues' until Vince caved? Absolutely. You do not play gently caress-gently caress games with the head of a nation-state that gets away with murder.
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Mar 31, 2020 14:42
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I'm going to get killed
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Mar 31, 2020 14:43
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https://twitter.com/NY64Tournament/status/1245158222693990400 Also the ACH Blackface Shirt has advanced.
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Apr 1, 2020 02:23
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Voting Lana/Liv because not granting releases, although lovely and bad, is just bog standard corporate behavior. But with Lana/Liv, they had an opportunity to put forward a positive LGBT storyline, (albeit with two straight performers). Even with how lovely it was presented, from the wedding onwards they could have easily tweaked it to have a positive portrayal of lesbians/bisexuals on TV. Instead they used it as a *gasp* "lesbians are tittilating and edgy aren't they?" moment at the wedding to further the interminable cuck angle, and then dropped it and never mentioned it again. So Lana/Liv was not only homophobic, but a missed opportunity, wheras not granting the release of unhappy workers, and keeping them chained to you is just corporate policy.
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Apr 1, 2020 03:06
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"Bog standard corporate behavior" should not be normalized. Workers should be granted their release if they want it, "independent contractors" doubly so.
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Apr 1, 2020 14:26
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Yeah, I went with the release thing. The implications of the Liv/Lana thing are all bad but it seems like its all inference because they made such little effort to explain the angle and then just ignored it almost immediately. What they seem to have been planning seems really lovely and homophobic but since they made such a mess of it and then ditched it its all kind of a confusing mess of theory. On the flip side stretching out people's contracts for injuries and forced time off, freezing them out in their primes of their career in the hopes of pressuring them to re-sign are really, really terrible things that affect lives in serious ways, and that's on top of the obvious "independant contractor" problems. And the fact that they're systematic shouldn't somehow lessen it, it should make it worse. I'm sure that contradicts some argument I've previously made in this thread/tourney, but WWE is hosed up a lot of ways and it can be confusing and complicated to figure out which ways are worse.
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Apr 1, 2020 14:37
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As a queer wrestling fan I would have voted for the disgusting homophobic angle if it were against something that wasn't still immediately affecting talent Sonya Deville being an openly-lesbian talent that pushed for years for a sincere LGBT-positive angle to be done onscreen, and instead having to see a shoddily, randomly done shock value angle with all-straight talent, is infuriating. She's still being paid though regardless The Revival won't see another paycheck until mid-June, despite Dawson's deal expiring before Dash's, because they want to be signed together the next place they go; WWE hasn't paid either for 8 weeks now and is making them stay home the rest of their deals despite them being healthy enough to work now if WWE wanted it
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Apr 2, 2020 00:27
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Chris James 2 posted:As a queer wrestling fan I would have voted for the disgusting homophobic angle if it were against something that wasn't still immediately affecting talent Honestly I hated even more that it was ambiguously gay. Liv never explicitly stated amorous intentions, just "love" and then it was quickly dropped, Lana never even really addressed what her side of the relationship was. gently caress WWE storytelling is loving awful.
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Apr 2, 2020 00:51
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It would be a breath of fresh air for performers to just flatly say 'no'. Career suicide for anyone, since Vince has spent the last decade making sure no stars got big enough to defy him, but frankly at this point it'll take that to get anything changed.
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Apr 2, 2020 06:18
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I don't think I'm in the minority when I say that Hogan, Savage, Hall, Nash and arguably Hart jumping ship to the competition back in the day is what permanently broke Vince's brain into making sure that the current crop of talent never becomes bigger than "the brand". E: I say "arguably" w/r/t Hart because IIRC Vince was the one who asked him to talk to WCW because he couldn't afford his contract anymore FUCKFACE MORON fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Apr 2, 2020 |
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Apr 2, 2020 15:32
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