FFVII Remake SPOILER THREAD - Pizzagate and Wall Market Street

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > FFVII Remake SPOILER THREAD - Pizzagate and Wall Market Street

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exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

What I didn't get about the ending is why Sephiroth turns around and gives Cloud the whole "we're not so different, you and I" speech after defying the flow of fate. It seems like Seph was really in favor of destiny since he'd been riding the force ghosts all game. Maybe he was able to see deeper into the future and didn't like what he saw?

Anyway this game ruled and now I genuinely don't know what Square is going to do next. If I had to guess, I would say that the next Remake games are going to have the same basic structure as the original FFVII with most of the familiar settings and characters, but totally remixed with different plot beats and circumstances bringing them there. And I guess Aeris' death is no longer a certain thing anymore. Imagine if they killed Tifa instead lmao.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 15:39

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 23:15

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Midgar definitely takes at least 10 hours to get through on the first go if you're not rushing. Source: Me and Randy, ages 12 and 13, taking an entire weekend to get through the Midgar section and recruit Red XIII.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 15:45

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Did people really see the ending scene with Zack as an alternate timeline thing? I saw it as a "the threads of fate have been changed forever" thing and since it's from Aeris' perspective that she's the one able to see how the past and future have been altered.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 16:30

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Vino posted:

It has to be another timeline because if Zack survives the Cloud doesn't take the Buster Sword and the events of FF7/Remake don't happen.

But that doesn't matter, the reason that scene was in the remake was some executive at Square said "Our fans love Zach, find a way to bring him back into the Remake series" and the writers are Square are lazy so they pooped this out.

I don't think this is necessarily true, the ending was left open enough that Cloud could have gotten the Buster Sword through other means, or rewriting the threads of fate alters the past conditions but leaves the present intact, or whatever. They can basically go in any direction from here.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 17:09

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

The thing re: stamp is that yes brands irl change their looks often enough but this isn�t real life, this is fiction, and it wasn�t changed to reflect the actual practices of marketing refreshments performed by businesses, it was done as a Twin Pines Mall/Lone Pine Mall style narrative signifier that poo poo Is Different Now. That being said I don�t think it�s supposed to be a third, separate timeline as much as it is visual shorthand, especially to players who don�t necessarily remember what exactly Zack�s deal was, that defeating the final boss has had consequences in ways that none of the characters planned or expected it to.

That's basically how I saw the ending. One timeline, overwritten by Cloud & Co. fateskipping to the endboss, the next few games to preserve the same locations and characters but completely change the context around them being there. Also Cloud's earring is now on the opposite side.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 17:22

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I don't think they would have taken this particular twist on the remake if everyone didn't already know that Aeris was gonna die. It's taken what was an inevitability and made it the biggest unanswered question for Part 2.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 17:41

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I expected that we'd be facing off against Sephiroth in some capacity for this game because it's a remake and the next game is at least 3 years away, of course they're gonna give the fans a Seph fight. As an encounter though he was kind of a pushover, especially compared to uh... those 7 dogs in Chapter 17.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 17:47

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Barret is now soft-spoken and collects Gil for the swear jar.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 17:54

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I'm not sure if Aeris is going to die in the next game now but I'm also pretty sure that someone is. But in order for that part to hit with the same emotional resonance, whoever dies has got to be on the same level as her in their significance to the story. So I don't think Zack is a worthy trade-off in that regard because not as many FF fans know about him and he's not as important in the general FFVII consciousness as Cloud, Barret, Tifa, Aeris.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 18:05

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Whoever dies will be the one you went to first in the sewers, this cannot be changed or overwritten.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 18:25

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Hetero shipping in a Final Fantasy game is a warcrime.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 19:21

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Oh man turning Seph into a playable ally would be amazingly stupid, yet also brilliant.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 19:50

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I've never really looked at power progression in RPGs in that way. Like sure ideally you don't wanna be killing God in Act 1 of a game but I've always just viewed levels, skill trees etc. as an abstraction to make the combat more interesting while the characters themselves stay on the same level.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 20:12

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Flopsy posted:

So just for the hell of putting it out there what exactly are y'all hoping for in the next game? Plot wise, character wise, etc.

I'm hoping they will expand on the whole Wutai section of the game and I think they will given all the setup here. And hopefully tie more of Yuffie's character into that plotline so that she doesn't feel so ancillary to the main story.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2020 22:03

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Sinteres posted:

I don't think we're going to get retcons on the personalities of the characters as we've already seen them in this game. What happened in this game still probably happened, even if there's going to be weird fuckery with a Zack who shouldn't be there later. I kind of wonder if Cloud and Aerith will be pushed harder before Zack shows up to make it weird.

This is gonna be exactly like that one season of Hey Dude where Ted AND Kyle were both vying for Brad's affections.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2020 00:22

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Mulva posted:

Listen, I know they are fascist corporate goons that literally set out to mass murder the poor so that the board of executives could build prettier houses, but have you considered how hot they are?

It's nothing personal, bitch.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2020 08:46

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I'm hoping the subsequent remake games can be more efficient about preserving the cast of characters because, improbable as it is to keep running into the same NPCs across the entire world, it's not satisfying to introduce a whole bunch of new characters for one storyline and then drop them forever.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2020 11:08

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I don't know where people are getting timeline stuff from. As far as the world of FF7 is concerned there's only one timeline (or "destiny" if you want to call it that), it was overwritten by Cloud and Friends killing the fate ghost voltron, and a couple characters can see how the fates have shifted. I don't think the next two games are going to feature anybody meeting their alternate selves or whatever.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2020 19:03

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

What's the name of the track where Tifa is climbing on the monkey bars at Shinra HQ? I can't find that one anywhere.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2020 19:53

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Ah yeah, that's the good poo poo.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2020 20:02

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Sephiroth descends from the ceiling to kill Sephiroth, who is mournfully laid to rest in the temple waters by Sephiroth.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2020 00:24

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I expect the basic structure of events to remain the same but the context and character motivations behind them to be very different. With certain sections expanded (Wutai) or compressed (Kalm) depending on what's already been established in the remake.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2020 15:49

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Ethiser posted:

In a reality where Zack and Cloud make it to Midgar who defeats Sephiroth? Do the Turks and Rufus valiantly save the world or does Zack end up working for Avalanche down the line and pretty much reenacting the game in place of Cloud?

It would own if in the remakes Cloud starts getting disappearing hands ala Marty McFly with the realization that Zack surviving makes his entire existence unnecessary.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2020 19:33

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Then we could call the next game thread ZACK to the Future book it.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2020 19:34

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Proteus Jones posted:

I was going to jump to X/X-2. I last played VIII when it first came out and I never did finish it. If it's worth my time, it looks like it's cheap enough to pick up if people think it's worth the time.

I think Spira is the most imaginative and unique setting of all the Final Fantasy games, and both X and X-2 have great combat systems in their own way. For 20 year old games, the graphics and gameplay still hold up very nicely in HD. The thing you have to keep in mind with FFX is that it was the very first time a game of this magnitude had full voice acting. It's become kind of a meme now but the English cast really did the best job they could having to match the Japanese dub line for line with no precedent.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2020 23:58

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Tidus is the main character of FFX and Yuna is the main character of X-2, although both are highly important to each narrative. That part isn't really a twist or even all that debateable.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2020 00:55

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

PsychoInternetHawk posted:

What always impresses me about FFX is how it manages to take a very wierd, broken, world and metaphysics, and make it feel very coherent and alive despite being really videogame-y even by FF standards.

Except Lulu, who despite being fun sticks out like a sore thumb among the otherwise consistent visual design.

Lulu's design I just don't get. Like the rest of the world has this whole island theme going for it, and it would be cool to see a Pacific Islander take on a Black Mage instead of... belts. But you know, Nomura.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2020 01:03

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

What were the fate ghosts doing in Chapter 3? Ensuring that Cloud would have to go on the mission to Mako Reactor 5?

# ¿ Apr 19, 2020 08:21

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

It's that the world of FFVII is the far-flung future version of Spira from FFX.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2020 16:36

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

It wasn't really surprising to me, all the Cloud hallucinations interdispersed throughout the game were moving toward a Seph showdown and his fight will look like a walk in the park compared to Mecha-Giga-Safer Seph in Remake Pt. III.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2020 19:12

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Barret was 100% awesome through and through in this game. His lines, his characterization, his delivery. Barret is da best.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2020 20:31

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I can't think of a single one of Barret's lines in the remake where he didn't kill it. That little pause before he says "Up Your rear end" at Shinra HQ had me dying.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2020 22:30

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I pretty easily understood the original story of FF7 despite being an idiot 12-year old, as did many others in the room, so I don't think millions of people are just going to be completely baffled by a couple fate ghosts. It's a Square-Enix JRPG, we're all expecting some total nonsense, it's fine. It's fine.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2020 10:05

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Killing everyone and abruptly ending the game would be the biggest most exciting twist of them all.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2020 15:29

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I forced myself to beat Jules in pull-ups for just such an occasion.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2020 15:37

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Necrothatcher posted:

Has anyone figured out why the game is so aggressive to people who just wanted a remake? I mean, characterizing them as ghosts out to spoil everyone's fun and making FF7 fans effectively the final boss of the game is pretty rad, but have they given any interviews saying what they were thinking?

"The game" doesn't believe this, it's just an extremely tortured reading of the ending.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2020 16:12

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I don't know how familiar you are with Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but hooded wraiths as a stand-in for overzealous fans are huge parts of it.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2020 16:28

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

I wish people would do away with incurious statements like "contempt for the audience" because it's about as unhelpful for interpreting media as it is unhealthy to the mental state of the reader. Nobody's out to get you, the developers don't hate their fans, they don't even know who you are. It's nothing personal, bitch.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2020 18:01

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Xaiter posted:

No one asserted this was directed any single person. It's a general accusation leveled at the fan base clamoring for a faithful adaption being told directly "We will never give you what you ask for" and they're depicted as "misguided souls with good intent" at best in the form of Whispers trying to enforce the existing timeline. "Change is bad!", they scream.

That depiction, even if intended to be gentle and well-meaning is absolutely disdain for their audience. The idea of audience stand-ins in meta-narratives isn't exactly new.

I want you to take a step back and think about the sequence of assumptions you have made in this one line of logic:

1. The Final Fantasy VII fanbase, all 25+ million people who enjoyed this game 22 years ago, is a singular entity made of those who only wanted a direct remake.
2. The creators of Final Fantasy VII recognized this and wilfully sought to deny them.
3. That they created a metaplot conceit that could only possibly stand for one thing.
4. That they did so only out of their own spite rather than any other artistic, logistical or commercial reason.
5. That they tricked millions of people into buying the game purely out of their own disdain.
6. That they faithfully, meticulously recreated the world and characters of Final Fantasy VII so that they could flip the script at the last minute and trigger the fans.

I'll say that this is more than a ridiculous conclusion, it's paranoid and actively unhealthy for anyone to have this kind of relationship with media.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2020 18:37

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 23:15

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

If the next romance in a Final Fantasy game is hetero then I'll agree with Xaiter that Square really doesn't know what the fans want.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2020 00:44

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > FFVII Remake SPOILER THREAD - Pizzagate and Wall Market Street

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