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people were mostly split on whether they were optimistic or thought they were going to gently caress up the original story, nobody expected whatever the gently caress this is and nobody has any idea what to make of it so the new split is between confusion and kneejerk anger.
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Apr 3, 2020 12:35
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Frog Act posted:If I never played ffvii and wanted to experience the narrative this isn’t gonna be the medium for that huh guess not good news, though, the original is still a good game
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Apr 3, 2020 12:35
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this isn't what anyone expected or wanted and I can't imagine how it possibly got greenlit it's like they were wide open with the ball right at the net and instead of dunking it they ran back up the court into coverage to shoot a 3 pointer. if it somehow goes in it'll be incredible, and I can't say that it won't without playing the game, but it's way more likely to fail than just doing the thing everyone expected them to do, and even if they nail it a lot of people are going to be pissed off.
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Apr 3, 2020 13:48
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Onmi posted:The thing is... you're wrong. People were already complaining. They complained when it wasn't turn-based, they complained seeing the Honeybee Inn wasn't what it was. They complained at the loving first reveal. People have been complaining for loving years. They've been bitching and moaning, and crying, and throwing a fit, over every minor detail. I'm hearing loving complaints, that it isn't literally just the same game engine and all, but all the models are nice and the backgrounds are cleaned up. oh, people were absolutely going to bitch about it anyway, no doubt. People bitch about everything, all the time, and especially things like this. But it's going to be orders of magnitude stronger now. Even if they totally nailed it, there are going to be people who are absolutely furious about it, just conceptually. This is not at all the same thing as people nitpicking continuously about how Aeristh's characterization isn't quite how they remembered it, or about Barret wearing sunglasses, or about Sephiroth showing up too early. This is people getting a completely different game than they expected to get. Even if it's really good, they're still gonna be mad. And if it's bad, holy poo poo, they're gonna be furious.
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Apr 3, 2020 14:39
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OctoberCountry posted:This actually sounds way better than what I was expecting so lol if they do it really well it's going to be a much, much more interesting thing than just doing FF7's story again. But that's the thing: just doing FF7's story again didn't have a lot of risk. It already exists and it's already established as a thing people like. Whatever this new thing is has the potential to be really good, but it also has the potential to be a trainwreck where all the freight cars were carrying burning dumpsters.
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Apr 3, 2020 14:43
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GoGoGadget posted:Guys, pack it up. New players won't like this because I'm mad that they didn't make the original again shot for shot. It's more along the lines of "new players won't understand what the gently caress is happening and various moments that are designed to be impactful will have no impact because they won't know what's going on or why it matters". GoGoGadget posted:How is no one saying this? People are decrying the game a failure already and stating it not being able to attract new players is one of the reasons I mean, it's not already a failure, but it has the potential to be one. And if it does turn out to be a failure, I imagine part of the reason would be because all of the people going "I'm going to play the remake instead of the original" play it and end up with a game that very much assumes you have played the original and know what happens in it.
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Apr 3, 2020 15:48
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canepazzo posted:I don't understand why new players would be confused by things that are changed from the original. How would they even know? Well, like the Zack stuff. Without knowing who he is, it all seems like it would just be either confusing or just totally lacking impact. Who is this guy, why should I care about him, etc.?
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Apr 3, 2020 16:24
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Harrow posted:I can't loving wait to see how they handle Cait Sith in the next part shows up five minutes later while cloud is beating up aeristh, also you go from not very serious cait sith sacrifice to actually very serious and disturbing cloud breakdown and then during this cait sith 2 literally bounces into frame and goes "hey what's up, is this a bad time?" whoever said they were getting MGS vibes from this, I feel like ff7 and MGS have exactly the same thing going on where they contain both wacky dumb bullshit comic relief and incredibly serious dramatic story moments with absolutely no barriers between the two, with both frequently happening in the same scenes, but they still manage to remain distinct and functional instead of undermining each other(most of the time) cock hero flux fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Apr 3, 2020 |
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Apr 3, 2020 17:39
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really this game has written a lot of loving checks and we're going to be waiting a few years to see if they bounce or not
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Apr 9, 2020 01:51
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Rageaholic posted:But could someone give me a spoiler summary of what happens in the rest of the original after leaving Midgar? From what I've heard, you leave Midgar in the original after only a handful of hours and it's a 3-disc game so I'm assuming there's a lot more story to go. If you really want the cliff notes of the entire rest of the game, here it is. This is off the top of my head so it might be a little bit spotty: First thing you do after Midgar is the first version of the Nibelheim Flashback. Cloud explains his history with Sephiroth to the rest of the party. The summary of that is: Cloud was a SOLDIER First Class who worked with Sephiroth on a few occasions. They were assigned on a mission to Nibelheim, Cloud and Tifa's hometown. During this mission, Sephiroth uncovers research material which indicates that he was the product of a Shinra experiment called the Jenova Project, which took some of the semi-living remains of a parasitic alien lifeform called Jenova and fused them into Sephiroth's body while he was a fetus. Sephiroth has a mental breakdown after learning this, probably at least partially due to the fact that Jenova also displays the ability to manipulate people who have been infected with its cells. He sets fire to the town and heads off to the reactor where Jenova's remains are stored. Tifa goes to confront him and he stabs her, then Cloud attempts to fight him but can't remember what happened after that. The party then sets off after Sephiroth, because they accept Cloud's explanation that Sephiroth is dangerously insane and is probably attempting to do something horrible. The party also finds the remains of a 200 foot tall snake that Sephiroth killed by stabbing it to death with an entire tree, which is pretty metal. After that, they follow the trail of Sephiroth to Junon, a Shinra military city. There's a weird minigame where you perform CPR on a girl and save her life so that she'll teach you how to ride a dolphin because dolphins are immune to electricity, then more extended minigames where Cloud disguises himself like a Shinra regular and ruins Rufus' inauguration parade so thoroughly that he gets sent a bomb in the mail. The entire party then disguise themselves as regulars and sneak onto a Shinra cargo ship to cross the ocean. Sephiroth attacks the ship and kills some of the crew, then leaves behind a big gross Jenova thing that the party kills. The ship then docks at a resort town, where the party runs into Hojo on vacation, still wearing his labcoat, surrounded by attractive women because of his weird kavorka man energy. Hojo mutters some insane poo poo about his theories about Jenova, then tells the party that Sephiroth is going to the Gold Saucer. On the way to the Gold Saucer, they pass through North Corel, Barret's hometown. Everyone in Corel hates Barret because he was the one who told them they should let Shinra build a reactor there, and then Shinra proceeded to do all kinds of hosed up poo poo and then burn the entire town down, and we see a flashback that shows that Scarlet personally shot Barret's hand off, which is kind of weird considering that I don't think he ever actually displays a grudge against her other than his overall grudge against Shinra. At the Gold Saucer, the party meets Cait Sith, a robot cat that joins the party for no reason. Then the party gets thrown in Desert Jail because someone with a gun for a hand shot a bunch of people in the Gold Saucer. This turns out to be Marlene's real dad, Dyne, who was Barret's friend from Corel and also got his hand shot off by Scarlet. Dyne is crazy now and kills himself. Then Cloud wins a chicken race and receives a full pardon and a car as the prize. The party then drives to Gongaga, I think. Gongaga is optional so I can't remember exactly where it is, but it's around here somewhere. In Gongaga they meet the parents of a guy named Zack, who was in SOLDIER. Cloud doesn't know him, despite the fact that they were both in SOLDIER. Aeristh admits that Zack was her ex-boyfriend but she hasn't seen him in years, and Tifa also definitely knows who he is but refuses to admit it or say anything about it. Then you drive onward to Cosmo Canyon. This Red's hometown, and is a hub for the study of the Planet. It's run by Bugenhagen, an old man who floats around on an orb or something. He teaches the party some stuff about the lifestream. Red turns out to not know how his dad died and thinks he was a big coward, so Bugenhagen takes him down to the Ghost Tunnels and shows Red that his dad actually died kicking rear end, and you fight some ghosts down there too. Then the party moves onto Nibelheim, which still exists despite the fact that it burnt to the ground. Turns out Shinra rebuilt it and filled it with actors to cover up all the atrocities they did there. It's also filled with weird dudes in black cloaks who mutter about the Reunion. Sephiroth is also there, and invites Cloud to the Reunion and then throws a materia at his head and flies away. You can also optionally find a guy that Hojo locked in the basement of a house 30 years ago and let him out to join the party if you feel like it. The party then moves onto Rocket Town, the site of Shinra's failed space program. They meet Cid, a pilot who swears in 90% of his dialogue boxes and also domestically abuses his common-law wife Shera because he blames her for the failure of the space program. The party has a very uncomfortable cup of tea with him, then they steal his plane. Cid also jumps onto the plane, which then gets shot down by Shinra, and he joins the party. I think this is where you hear from Shinra that Sephiroth is going to a place called the Temple of the Ancients, too. At this point if you have Yuffie, an optional party member who joins you literally in a random encounter, she will prompt you to go do an extended sidequest where you go to her hometown and she steals all your poo poo multiple times and then you save her from getting sexually assaulted by Don Corneo and then the Turks throw him off of a cliff, which will probably be mandatory in the remake. After that, you go to the Gold Saucer and borrow the Keystone to the Temple from the guy who owns it. Then Cloud goes on a date with someone, depending on who you've made Cloud hit on, and then Cait Sith steals the Keystone and gives it to Shinra because he is a spy. You try to kick him out of the party or kill him, but he reveals that he's actually just a robot and his operator has kidnapped Marlene, so you're forced to let him stick around. You head to the Temple and find that Tseng from the Turks has already gotten there, and also that Sephiroth has stabbed the hell out of him. Tseng gives you the Keystone and then just kind of hangs out in a corner. He never shows up for the entire rest of the game but apparently isn't canonically dead so I guess he just wanders off after this. In the Temple, the party discovers that Sephiroth's plan is to use something called the Black Materia to punch a big hole in the Planet, and then he's going to basically drink the entire lifestream. The party obtains the Black Materia, then Cloud has a full-blown psychotic breakdown, gives it to Sephiroth, punches Aeristh in the face, and then passes out for a week. When he wakes up, he discovers that Aeristh has, understandably, bailed and is heading to somewhere called the City of the Ancients. The party follows her there. Cloud finds her and has another psychotic breakdown and almost murders her. Then Sephiroth shows up and actually murders her. This is the end of Disc 1. The party continues chasing Sephiroth north to a giant crater. They do some snowboarding and find Aeristh's dad's home movie collection. In the crater they find loads and loads of the black cloaked men from Nibelheim, who all die trying to get to Sephiroth. They catch Sephiroth in the crater, but he reveals himself to actually just be a big Jenova blob. They kill it, and retrieve the Black Materia from it. Further in, they find Sephiroth's actual body, which is all kinds of hosed up and entombed in what appears to be a giant hunk of materia. Sephiroth tells Cloud that he's not even a real person and is basically just a lump of Jenova goo that has been feeding off of Tifa's memories, and shows him the second version of the Nibelheim flashback, which is identical to the first except that Cloud is replaced by another dude with black hair. Cloud looks to Tifa to confirm that he was actually there and she basically just goes "Oh god, no, don't ask me that" because as it turns out, she actually does not remember him being there. Cloud then has a complete mental breakdown and gives the Black Materia to Sephiroth again, then falls into the Lifestream. Things then proceed to go Real Bad, as Sephiroth activates the Black Materia, which causes an enormous Meteor to form in the sky and start heading toward the Planet. Also, the Planet's immune system activates in the form of 5 Godzilla monsters called WEAPONs, which burst out of the ground and start to rampage against everything that they see as a threat to the Planet. The party, minus Cloud, hitches a ride on a Shinra airship to escape the crater. Tifa, who is the main character now, wakes up in Junon, having been captured by Shinra. Shinra decides to execute her as a way to make people feel better about the giant Meteor, but a WEAPON attacks the city before they can carry it out. Tifa slaps the gently caress out of Scarlet and then is rescued by the rest of the party, who have now hijacked the aforementioned airship. Shinra also actually kills the WEAPON by shooting it in the face with a really big cannon. The party then finds Cloud in a town called Mideel, in a coma. Tifa decides to stay with him and leaves. Barret then forces Cid to become the new main character. The party then hears of Shinra's plan to stop the Meteor by building an enormous Materia bomb and attaching it to the rocket from Rocket Town. They decide to stop Shinra from doing this for no explained reason other than "we want that materia". In the process of stopping them, they hijack a train and save Barret's hometown from getting destroyed again, and also fight a war to save a giant bird that immediately dies anyway. They then go to see if Cloud's out of his coma yet. He isn't, but then one of the WEAPONs shows up and obliterates the town he's in, and him and Tifa both fall into the Lifestream. This leads to Nibelheim Flashback version 3, the one that actually happened. Turns out that Cloud is a real person, but he wasn't a SOLDIER. He was a Shinra rent-a-cop, one of the generic Public Security dudes, and he was one of the handful of guys who came along on the Nibelheim mission to do all the lame grunt work while the SOLDIERs were slaying monsters and being cool. Because he'd told everyone that he'd joined SOLDIER, he was too embarrassed to show his face in his hometown, so he kept his helmet on. The actual SOLDIER who came with Sephiroth, the black-haired guy from version 2, turns out to have been Zack, Aeristh's ex-boyfriend. In the real flashback, Zack confronts Sephiroth and gets his rear end kicked. Then Cloud basically sneaks up behind Sephiroth and stabs him in the rear end, then pushes him off a bridge into the reactor core. Sephiroth is still super mad about this, which is why version 2 of this flashback was just Sephiroth lying to Cloud in order to gently caress with his head. Unfortunately, after this Zack and Cloud get double-crossed by Shinra, who wants to cover up all the atrocities they did, and used as test subjects by Hojo's new Jenova project. This involved Cloud getting shot full of Jenova cells, which is why Sephiroth and Jenova have the ability to manipulate him, and also why he went insane and forgot all of this. Zack busts them out of the lab after a few years and takes Cloud to Midgar, but then he gets shot up by Shinra and dies, and Cloud takes his sword. Having established all of this, the lifestream vomits Cloud and Tifa up, and Cloud wakes up and is no longer crazy. He is now back to being the main character. The party continues trying to stop Shinra's anti-Meteor plan for some reason, and this involves stealing a submarine and having a submarine fight minigame that lasts for either 30 seconds or 30 minutes depending on whether you immediately mash square after it starts or not, and then going to Space. The plan does not work, and Meteor is still heading for the Planet. The party also discovers that Aeristh manages to activate something called Holy to protect the Planet from Meteor before she died, but that it won't work unless Sephiroth is killed before Meteor hits. Shinra's next plan is to move the bigass cannon to Midgar and drain all 8 reactors to fire one giant shot directly at Sephiroth, in the hope that it will take down his barrier and let them kill him so that they can get rid of the Meteor. This actually works: the shot blows up Sephiroth's barrier and kills another WEAPON on the way there, too. The WEAPON manages to blow up the top of the Shinra Tower before it dies, though, and kills Rufus(until he gets retconned into escaping in Advent Children). Hojo then hijacks the cannon in order to fire another shot at Sephiroth, because he thinks that Sephiroth will be able to absorb its energy and accelerate Meteor. The party parachutes into Midgar to stop him, and they kill Heidegger and Scarlet and optionally the Turks on the way there. Confronting Hojo, they discover that Hojo is actually Sephiroth's dad, and also is responsible for literally every bad thing that has ever happened to anyone, and that he has no motivation beyond wanting to see what would happen. They then kill him. This is the end of Disc 2. With the barrier gone and Shinra basically decapitated, the party then heads to the crater to kill Sephiroth. They delve into the crater, kill the last errant Jenova hunk, then reach Sephiroth at the bottom. They kill him, then they kill him again, then Cloud personally kills him one more time. With Sephiroth dead, Holy activates and destroys Meteor as it hits the Planet, but also destroys Midgar and possibly all of humanity. Then we flash forward 500 years and see Red looking at a destroyed Midgar, and it's left kind of ambiguous whether humanity is gone or if they're just being more environmentally conscious now.
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Apr 13, 2020 23:25
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Rageaholic posted:drat, reading that story stuff definitely makes me think we'll get at least one more 30-40 hour game out of this, if not 2. There seems to be a lot going on here. The original game was about 50-60 hours long (if you didn't spend 100 hours on chicken eugenics), of which about 4-5 were Midgar. So, I'd say we're due at least 2 more if they decide keep to the original framework, and even more if they expand on things like they did Midgar.
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Apr 13, 2020 23:58
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Clarste posted:Also Yuffie is from Wutai which they make sound super important in the Remake but it's totally optional to visit it in the original. it's importantish in the backstory because it was the other side of The War that everyone important was involved in but it lost so as of the present day it's totally irrelevant and the game never actually forces you to go there They seem to be using it differently this time though, because in the original it's explicitly Shinra occupied territory with very limited self-governance but in the Remake Shinra seem to be propping it up as The Great Enemy so maybe in this version it's a little more active(or Shinra still controls it but are using it as a puppet enemy for propaganda purposes). cock hero flux fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Apr 14, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2020 00:37
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Ledenko posted:Early in the game, you create a distraction so Jessie can steal stuff. When you get to the place, you see someone already dealt with the guards. Is it ever explained who did that? presumably the squad of Avalanche dudes who show up 10 minutes later to rob the place
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Apr 14, 2020 21:44
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Flopsy posted:I don't think nazis felt like poo poo after they were done nazing it up. lots of them probably did but feeling bad about being ordered to kill people doesn't make them less dead, and if you keep following those orders then you're still a nazi no matter how bad you feel about being one
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Apr 17, 2020 08:08
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DeathChicken posted:Thinking it over, the whole Seven Seconds thing is definitely the time it took Sephiroth to kill Aerith in the original scene. I imagine with that foreknowledge, Cloud would be compelled to try a heroic save there. Which in all likelihood *would* get him killed instead. That would certainly be a thing to close a hypothetical second game on. if someone in this plot has the ability to change 7 seconds of the past they could solve pretty much everything by just going back 25 years and pushing hojo in front of a train
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Apr 17, 2020 23:19
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PsychoInternetHawk posted:The game makes a point of showing Rufus is someone who can see whispers, so it's pretty clear his characterization will be a little different from here on out. My guess is that at some point he'll see the same apocalyptic vision the party did and either: Neither of those really fit with Rufus' characterization(either originally or what we see of him in the remake). His most defining character trait in the original was being completely, ridiculously unflappable. He shows mild concern when he sees that he's about to get hit in the face with an atomic explosion. That's it, the guy's completely unfazed by everything else. This is definitely intact in the remake, too, because his response to being disarmed and having a mentally unstable killing machine threaten to throw him off a building is just "nah, I don't think so, bye". Freaking out about anything isn't really in character. His aura of smugness is impenetrable. He's also not a good guy. In the original, the first impression that he consciously chooses to give is that he's someone who thought his dad, a man who killed a hundred thousand people for almost no reason and who oversaw the construction of a brutally authoritarian world government, was too soft on people. His whole opener is "if you thought Shinra was oppressive before, you ain't seen nothin yet." Funnily enough, he doesn't get much of a chance to actualize on this. He's kind of a weird character because he's a self-interested bad guy who ends up in a situation where what's best for him and what's best for everyone else end up being pretty much the same. He doesn't have time to brutalize the people he rules over for personal gain because the Planet's going to explode. This is a relatively common thing that pops up in fiction, but Rufus doesn't fall into the usual cliches for it. He never has a change of heart and becomes a good person. He never works with the protagonists. There is absolutely no understanding reached between them: Rufus is still a ruthless dictator and Shinra is still a terrible loving organization. He doesn't get to do his whole speech in this one, but the line about him owning SOLDIERs is a clear indicator that he's got pretty much the same worldview.
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Apr 18, 2020 20:07
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HD DAD posted:I’m still not sure what an Abe is supposed to be. it's the opposite of a duggle
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Apr 19, 2020 04:13
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also it's funny that they're called the Zanarkand Abes despite the fact that they play in a league that only contains teams from Zanarkand, which as far as anyone who lives in it knows is literally the only city that exists
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Apr 19, 2020 04:16
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morallyobjected posted:I mean, if it's really the dreams of the original people from Zanarkand, they do know other cities exist because they were at war with Bevelle at some point. the opening match is probably like the Yankees playing the Mets you would expect tidus to react to the fact that the capitol of spira is Bevelle, the other side in the nightmare forever war, if that was the case. He'd also know what a Summoner is, given that real Zanarkand had lots of them. it's possible that he's just very, very dumb, though
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Apr 19, 2020 04:38
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exquisite tea posted:I can't think of a single one of Barret's lines in the remake where he didn't kill it. That little pause before he says "Up Your rear end" at Shinra HQ had me dying. his big "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?" had me thinking that it probably could have used another take but everything else ranged from perfectly fine to actually quite good
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Apr 20, 2020 07:07
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I guess I don't understand the logic of loving 99% of something and then hating the last 1% of it so much it makes you retroactively think the 99% was worthless It's the last impression. When you've finished it, and are thinking about it, the last thing that happened is the freshest thing in your mind. It's not really logical to write the whole thing off because of the ending, but it's a very normal human reaction because people aren't always logical and they especially aren't logical about their personal preferences. Them hating the last hour may not have made the previous 30ish hours retroactively not fun for them, but it makes them feel worse about it. The debate over whether a bad ending makes an entire work bad has been raging for eons and will likely never be settled. Also, this is part 1. We haven't seen 100% of it, we've seen 20 to 30 percent of it. And while the first 29% may have been good, the last 1% was, well, controversial. Some people liked it, and those people are very excited about the remaining 70%. Some people didn't like it, and are very concerned as to what the remaining 70% will look like. And if that 70% turns out to be bad, which there is no way of knowing at this point, then that means that most of FF7R is bad.
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Apr 21, 2020 01:11
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DeathChicken posted:Yeah, ultimately it doesn't matter if Reno was handwringing over killing 10,000 people and Rude was all "Killing 10,000 people is my job", end of the day it's *real* hard to reel them back after that poo poo. Particularly Rude it's actually very strange to me that they did it the way they did it this time. In the original, Reno runs over and open palm slams the button right away, shows zero remorse, and then fucks off. Rude doesn't even show up. The Turks later take on this weird recurring bad guy who occasionally works with the protagonists or has comic relief moments role, which is a bit disconnected from the fact that Reno killed thousands of people. In this, it was obvious that they were going to try and walk it back a bit. Makes sense. But the established characterization is that Reno is an unrepentant shitheel, Rude is a quiet guy who does his job professionally and has moments of humanity and Tseng is the cold, dickhead leader. So I figured either they'd have Tseng do it while Reno and Rude hemmed and hawwed about it, or they'd stick to the old version and have Reno do it but feel bad about it later. So it's bizarre to me that what actually happens this time is that Reno gets about 99% of the way through setting it up and then, instead of following through on it, seems to hesitate and decides to fight the party first instead. Cloud is literally standing there going "just loving press it already" and he doesn't.Then Rude, the Turk who would have been the easiest to characterize as not evil and who gets his "I'm not a bad guy, but sometimes I do bad things" line and Aeristh vouching for him, is the one who actually does it.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:36
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Why would you even make a self-destruct feature like that anyway so that you can literally crush insurrections the manual operation is so that if the guy you send to operate it knows too much and you think he's going to make trouble you just not pick him up after he presses it it's all shinra as gently caress
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Apr 21, 2020 03:34
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guts and bolts posted:I had no idea what a Memory Card was or how it was supposed to work, so I spent - this is true - my first thirty plus or so hours playing FF7 without ever being able to save. (We did not own a Memory Card for the first I wanna say two months of owning the PSX.) I would beg my dad to leave the PlayStation running and to just change the channel to TV so I could keep my progress. Every time I got a Game Over, which I did because I was kid, I had to start the entire loving game over. I remember dying to Hundred/HeliGunner and crying about having to start over. I got killed by Demon Wall and, yep, started over. I have probably beaten the majority of the first disc of OG FF7 like literally more than forty times as a result. loving same I actually have no real concept of how long Midgar is supposed to be because I basically had to speedrun through various parts of it loads of times because I either died and had to start over or I had to turn the PS1 off. People recently saying that Midgar is like, 10 hours is confusing as hell to me because I very clearly remember that the first time I actually got to outside of Midgar the game time was at like, 3 hours, because I'd died in the Shinra building a couple of times before that point and just sprinted through the entire thing to get back to it(I actually managed to die to Rufus once somehow).
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Apr 21, 2020 05:39
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most of the old work was bad but i feel like cyberconnect cloud really sells the "i'm homeless, have radiation poisoning and spent the last five years in a tube" look
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Apr 21, 2020 08:01
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Flopsy posted:You can literally smell him the minute he appears on screen and at least 85% of it is some kind of oil there's nothing more attractive than a man who smells like formaldehyde and ball sweat and leaves a faint trail of grease wherever he walks -lucrecia, probably
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Apr 21, 2020 22:33
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guts and bolts posted:I honestly hope that for the sake of tonal consistency that they omit Hojo from the beach. I get it, ha ha, and the meme potential is off the charts, but the OG FF7's second-largest sin in my view is trying to get you to sympathize with (or find comedy in) its villains even when that is wildly, grotesquely inappropriate. Hojo is kill on sight. He is, as Flopsy put it, one of "... the most revolting character[s] to ever grace a video game." He tries to murder your party multiple times, considered/attempted to rape-breed Aerith, has committed God-only-knows how many crimes against humanity that we don't even see, and we eventually discover that he is basically directly responsible for all of the most odious tragedies in the FF7 narrative. He impregnates Lucretia then experiments on their unborn baby, who eventually becomes Sephiroth, and then when Vincent objects to this goddamn travesty Hojo guns him down and conducts crazy-rear end science on his corpse. When Hojo's colleague Gast grows a conscience and tries to flee Shinra with Ifalna and Aerith, the last surviving Cetra on the Planet, Hojo murders Gast and kidnaps Ifalna and Aerith. Ifalna eventually loving dies as a result of trying to escape him. It's a good scene for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it's not the same as getting buddy-buddy with the Turks, because the party absolutely is not being friendly with him. They clearly want to just ice him right there, because he's the absolute worst. All you need in the remake is a more compelling reason why they can't do that than just "because it'd cause a huge scene". Second, it's an important thing for establishing Hojo's defining character trait: he doesn't care about anything other than his own hosed up whims. The instant pursuing his theories became easier without Shinra, he bailed on them. And he has no concern about them whatsoever: he's openly sunning himself on the beach waiting for Jenova Project subjects to pass by so he can observe them. Nothing else even registers to him. Third, it establishes his completely nonsensical amount of success with women, which as it turns out is literally responsible for the entire plot of the game. nothing about the scene encourages sympathy for Hojo, he is one of the least sympathetic characters ever written. He's an abject monster and if anything displaying how he's so disconnected from reality and how other people think that he's willing to gently caress over the world government and then just hang out on a beach in broad daylight, and then respond to a confrontation with a group of eco-terrorists who he has personally done absolutely awful things to with total flippancy, really cements how much of a loving deranged lunatic he actually is.
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Apr 21, 2020 22:55
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Flopsy posted:These aren't wives though. These are random young ladies sunning on a beach who see a literal goblin lurking on the periphery and are suddenly overcome with lust for him. it's also worth noting that as a shinra executive he's almost certainly one of the 10 richest people on the planet, maybe they're just prostitutes or something
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Apr 21, 2020 23:13
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cheetah7071 posted:Speaking of this, did OG FF7 have a better explanation for why the party decides Sephiroth is worth dropping everything to pursue than Aerith cryptically and suddenly getting a message from the planet that he's bad news because that part was pretty weak in the remake yes, it's an entire extended flashback you get which shows Cloud and Sephiroth's history. It's at least an hour long and goes into great detail about why exactly Cloud would be so determined to deal with him. It happens like 10 minutes after you leave Midgar.
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Apr 21, 2020 23:36
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DeathChicken posted:I was mainly confused that Shinra chose to go "Okay, we'll just roll with the take where Hojo tells us to gently caress ourselves, why not". They could have put up an Out of Order sign like some of the other exhibits. it was the only take they could get where he wasn't committing crimes against humanity or loving something, or both
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Apr 21, 2020 23:37
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Also I wonder what will replace the Tifa/Scarlet slapfight
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Apr 21, 2020 23:40
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Oxxidation posted:this is literally the first time sephiroth's name is mentioned in the game outside of flashbacks president shinra mentions him once in reactor 5
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Apr 21, 2020 23:42
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Schwartzcough posted:And how has that changed where the party ends the Midgar portion of the FF7 story? You blew up two reactors, Sector 7 got crushed, Aerith got abducted, you staged an assault on the Shinra tower, where you rescued Aerith and recruited Red XIII, President Shinra got killed and Rufus took over, Sephiroth ran off with Jenova, and your party has escaped Midgar to give chase. We're right where the original game left us. it doesn't necessarily change the fundamentals of exactly what they have to do next but "fought some robots and then escaped the city with the police chasing them" and "defeated the abstract concept of time and ghost sephiroth in a giant anime fight" definitely feel different as end points
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Apr 22, 2020 01:03
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DemoneeHo posted:jenova'd hojjed
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Apr 23, 2020 22:54
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:If the Whispers goal is to keep the timeline on the path to "planet is saved," I can understand the reasoning behind bringing Barret back to life, he was part of the main party and a key player in events. But what does Wedge do to endanger the planet that means he must be killed lol If Wedge and Biggs are alive then Barret's AVALANCHE cell is still mostly intact, which would mean that either he could stay behind to continue leading them in Midgar or they could come along and join the party, both of which are pretty big divergences.
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Apr 24, 2020 00:21
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Necrothatcher posted:Cloud surviving that fall is totally plausible. The church roof took most of the impact and then the soft flowers did the rest. there are numerous incidents which establish that the planet doesn't actually have fall damage. literally the only person who ever gets hurt by falling any distance is tifa and given that cloud falls exactly the same distance and is totally fine it can be assumed that it was some kind of freak accident where she got hit in the head by a piece of falling bridge on the way down or something. everyone else: cloud falls off a mountain and is fine and then off of the plate and is fine, Reno literally jumps off the pillar as a means of escape, the party falls down Corneo's sewer hole and is totally fine, Dyne falls off a cliff while getting shot and is fine(presumably when he jumps later it's not because he's killing himself but rather that he's just chosen to live out the remainder of his life in the ravine), Wedge falls off the pillar and is injured but presumably that's from getting shot beforehand, Tifa jumps off of the Junon tower and is totally fine(and also the soldiers following her show no hesitation even after some of them fall into the streets, presumably because those guys are actually okay), everyone falls off the Nibelheim bridge in the flashback and is fine except that one guy(who the rest seem to think would have survived but might get eaten by monsters). I'm probably forgetting some. falling just doesn't hurt you, people jump off of buildings or fall off cliffs all the time and are fine. honestly the weirdest thing is that they even bother with parachutes in the return to midgar.
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Apr 26, 2020 11:03
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Bleck posted:to be fair the original also has Sephiroth appearing in Midgar repeatedly and it also never explains who he is, and people expecting otherwise in the remake was kind of unreasonable sephiroth never appears in midgar his name is mentioned a couple of times and you find his sword in the president's face but you never see him. The first time you see him at all is the flashback and I want to say that the first he shows up in the present is on the ship(or if you want to get all "actually" about it the first time you see him in the present is the North Crater).
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Apr 27, 2020 06:38
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stev posted:They should've worked the Kalm flashback into this somehow. i assumed they were going to have it happen in shinra jail because you've got all the relevant characters together sitting around doing nothing but uh, welp
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Apr 27, 2020 08:50
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Rhonne posted:My current theory is that Rufus saw a vision of the future when the Whispers were defeated(he was explicitly shown as one of the few people who could see them) and decided "you know what? This is a pretty acceptable future"
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Apr 27, 2020 22:47
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lukevictorious posted:Based off one side chatter line from Biggs that "the people up here must make three or four times what I do" thinking about writing an effort/shippost about how the people above the plate are middle-to lower middle class at best, and part of what keeps them in line besides just the need/comfort of mako energy is the simple fact that are are better than the people they are (physically) above. Really they are both part of the proletariat, and there must be a true bourgeoisie that we don't see in either the original or the remake really pulling the reigns. Sure we have President and then Rufus Shinra, and we know the mayor is a puppet, but everyone else we see in Shinra-HQ is either part of the military-industrial complex or closely related. We know this is a hypercapitalist society where corporation=government. But that means money is still the driving force, so there must be other businesses and other wealthy people besides just the Shinra family. President Shinra has no real world parallel yet(he's a good businessman, remember), but I just want to know who the Jeffrey Epstein of this world must be. The wealthy upper class really probably is just the top few layers of Shinra.
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Apr 28, 2020 00:04
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