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Just beat it, really enjoyed it, though I'm struggling to figure out a narrative purpose for the Rattlers other than "we need an enemy for the Santa Barbara chapter, specifically so Abby can be hosed up when you find her."
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Jul 10, 2020 20:31
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Madurai posted:It's not a narrative purpose at all--it's worldbuilding consistent with the theme of "human society, left to its own devices after a global catastrophe, splinters into smaller and smaller armed camps of psychopathic murderers." Well, that should still serve some kind of thematic purpose, as it is they just kind of come out of nowhere. Personally, I think it makes the most sense for Abby and Lev to have made contact with the real Fireflies and it not just being a trap, because Abby has moved on from the cycle of revenge at this point and a fakeout wouldn't really serve a purpose. It's definitely ambiguous though.
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Jul 10, 2020 21:29
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RareAcumen posted:Gotta get to back into the swing of playing Ellie again and you can't have Abby and Lev ambushed by infected because if that happens then they just die. Infected don't kidnap, they just eat that delicious delicious jugular and leave the rest to rot. Honestly, I think you could have cut down the number of encounters in the SB segment to maybe a warmup and then a big one on the scope of the last combat encounter of the hospital in 1, because by that point in the game I get the idea and there's no need to drag it out.
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Jul 10, 2020 21:31
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He's right, though? Tactical realism complaints are dumb.
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Jul 11, 2020 00:29
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Abby's story was just generally more interesting
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Jul 13, 2020 21:16
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Honestly, as I was playing Lev's story mainly felt pretty understated to me, I don't really understand the accusations that it's just for woke cred or whatever.
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Jul 14, 2020 19:38
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I don't think it's saying that at all. e: also this is tangential but I clicked through some of the other articles linked there and did Rob Zacny of the same site really miss, like, the entire point of the ending, which is that Ellie didn't actually get the chance to reconcile with Joel and it's that anguish and loss that motivates her revenge, the loss of a bond unhealed? He doesn't even mention it and acts like they already had closure! I thought he was a better critic than that. Arist fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 17:51
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Fellatio del Toro posted:the main point of his second article is that the final conversation does the exact opposite of what you're saying here. most of the game is spent letting you think that there is this big unresolved tension between them, unanswered questions, and that their relationship effectively ended after the return to salt lake. joel dying while the relationship is in this state does make for a really tragic and compelling motivation for ellie. then the last flashback happens, the "things we wished we had said before you died" conversation that people always regret not having did in fact happen, joel and ellie got to say what they needed to say, and they both made it clear that they still cared about each other before he died He doesn't actually engage with that at all though? It comes across like he just missed the point entirely. And, I disagree heavily that the conversation we're talking about was in any way closure. It was potential for restoration, but not restoration itself.
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Jul 16, 2020 18:27
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If they didn't, if they were still distant, than that makes the revenge even less sensible. That there was an attempt made and cut off before it even really got a chance is what makes the grief so profound.
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Jul 16, 2020 18:46
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I'm talking about specifically the part where they don't even like, bring up the blatant intention of the scene, my dude
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Jul 16, 2020 21:03
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The Abby stuff is better than the Ellie stuff
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Jul 7, 2021 13:23
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I mean, one of the things I really like about the game in relation to other zombie media is that the zombies are not especially important to the narrative and are basically just a weird natural disaster
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Jul 7, 2021 18:27
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I'm not gonna get into a fight here but I actively like TLOU 1 less every time someone insists it's about Joel "finding his humanity again," it's just the most boring possible read of that story
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Jul 8, 2021 20:28
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veni veni veni posted:How on earth is it not about that? and how is that boring? I'm legit curious as to why you feel that way. I won't be mean to you about it. I don't believe you, because we've done this before It's extremely cliched, I'll leave it at that
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Jul 8, 2021 20:34
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veni veni veni posted:So no good reason then, got it. Wow, didn't take long at all for you to prove you were lying
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Jul 8, 2021 20:37
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I really just wanted to vent a frustration without getting pulled into an incredibly stupid argument I've been having off-and-on for several years, but whatever. Fine. The game just isn't a hero story and that read tries to awkwardly staple one onto it. The game is about loss, grief, and how far one will go to avoid losing again. Treating Joel as some big hero "rediscovering his humanity" strips all the nuance and complexity from the ending and I've always hated it.
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Jul 8, 2021 21:08
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Owen clearly sucks, but as a person, not as a character
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Jul 13, 2021 20:11
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bobjr posted:I remember it being a someone common idea pre-2 that the surgeon was way out of their depth and grasping at straws, but 2 kind of pushes that Jerry knew what he was doing way more and implied he was one of the last with any kind of experience. This is not supported by the game in any way and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you
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Jul 19, 2021 13:46
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That is, again, one of those bits of fan headcanon justification that serves only to flatten the moral dilemma at the core of the ending and make the entire game worse in the process. e: but you might be, and I apologize if I'm wrong, the guy who once called the Fireflies "neoliberals" in a different thread, something that has absolutely no textual justification, so I dunno why I'm bothering Arist fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Jul 19, 2021 |
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Jul 19, 2021 14:12
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bobjr posted:I mean at the end of the day how trained they are as a surgeon probably doesn’t matter a ton if they’re going to kill her and take her brain out if they’re qualified to be a surgeon in the first place. The bigger issue would always be in actually making and distributing a cure in a world two decades removed from any kind of modern civilization. This doesn't matter. It just doesn't. The details of "how would the Fireflies make and distribute the cure" legitimately aren't important to the story, not just because they never get that far but also because it's beyond the scope of the story being told. Again, it's a fairly straightforward moral dilemma, and it's infuriating that people go so far to try to invalidate it because they don't know how to interpret media in a reasonable way.
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Jul 19, 2021 14:30
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That's not the point. I'm saying TLOU isn't telling a story where that stuff matters. You might as well ask why all the gasoline hasn't gone bad. In order for the ending to work at all on any level other than "pure, selfless hero Joel" you need to accept that the Fireflies had some chance of success, and that their success at least could have gone well for the world.
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Jul 19, 2021 14:39
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WaltherFeng posted:Joel did nothing wrong I'm a complete idiot for getting pulled into this awful argument yet again, christ
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Jul 19, 2021 14:47
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:It actually is the point and it does matter, because it's an interactive medium where all kinds of things can be sought, heard, traversed, and inspected. Everything matters within the context of story, all the details which the devs painstakingly added to paint a broad and complex picture of a world and social tapestry [not entirely unlike our own] matter, regardless of how many times you energetically tell people in any of these threads that they don't. Both games are engaging in a variety of storytelling techniques through mechanical design, performance, and art direction that ultimately converge and funnel into more confined yet ultimately ambiguous conclusions. If certain things don't matter to you it's because you are omitting them from the record by choice. I'm gonna bow out here because this argument makes me want to walk into the ocean, but, like: First, "the point" was referring to MY point, and you don't get to decide what that was, I do. My point was exactly what I said it was. Second, you're dressing it up in a lot of obsfuscatory language here but you're not actually really saying anything meaningful beyond "things matter if they're in the story." Well, yeah, no poo poo. I'm saying these details aren't in the story and thus do not matter.
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Jul 19, 2021 14:55
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