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RIP Murray. Having watched too many Youtube videos of people pulling cars from junk yards and making them drive and also wanting to have something terrible to torture myself on Power Tour and Lemons Rallys I decided the best thing to do was buy a car sight unseen from Arizona and have it shipped to me in New England because anything over 10 years old up this way is mostly returned to the Earth. Here it is sitting in the desert sun being baked into goodness.         From the title and other info I can find I think it was sitting for about 15 years. At some point in the past someone put the doors, front fenders and grill from a Catalina on it as well as a two barrel intake/carb or the 389 engine out of the same Catalina. I can't find any damage to the frame so either it was damaged from something that didn't touch the frame or someone tried to dress it up as a Catalina in the 70s to try and save on insurance which was not an uncommon thing. Arriving from sunny Arizona to live on my drive for the next      389 Pontiac v8 with a 2 barrel intake, hydramatic 3 speed (not a turbo hydramatic, older than that) which I don't think is the original one for the car. The heads were junk and you can't really find heads for a pre 65 Pontiac without having work done to the bottom end to make the valves clear so out it comes and donated to a local school with an auto shop class to take apart.  If I am going to be taking this on the road then all corner drum brakes are not really going to cut it in 2020 especially with a single pot master cylinder so out all that comes and disc brakes from Master Power Brakes goes in. Picked this kit since it comes with everything and you don't have to reuse any of the old hardware. Grade 8 replacements for everything and decent instructions. I also ordered new spindles at this point but couldn't find any that were correct. Some places were advertising Impala spindles as replacements but the mounting holes the steering arms were not right so back they went.    So top tip, if you think fork lifting a car around is a good idea, no, it is not. I couldn't find replacements for these so had to go with aftermarket tubular control arms from the only place in the world that seems to make them. All that adds up to cheap!  This is the last bolt I removed from the rear suspension. It got to the point I just plasma cut them out because the bolts and nuts were rusted together, rounded off and were in places I wouldn't weld a new nut onto.  Remember when I said that someone replaced the front grill with one from a Catalina? I was able to piece together the correct grill and parking lights for the car and it looks much better.  When I bought a car from Arizona I thought that there would be little rust and it would just be surface at most. Nope the trunk to frame mounts were garbage but considering you can get replacements for these and the design is pretty bad, there is a hold open to the rear tire where water, mud and stones just build up and rot it out. So out those come and I am going to make replacements with some steel plate and hockey pucks. The ones I cut out had been replaced at least once before so just putting in expensive replacements of the same design seems a bit dumb.   There was also rust in the usual places and the gimmick here is rat/patina rod time to break out the license plates!   Right now pretty much everything that needs to be removed has been so it is time to start reassembling the car. In the coming few weeks I will be putting in the updated rear end, still a Pontiac/Olds 9.3 with a posi and 3.90 gears, fuel tank, finishing up the brake system, cutting out and "plating" the remaining body rust, fabbing up seat mounts, dropping in the Pontiac 350 I picked up along with a fresh TH400 transmission. Once that is all together and I start wiring up everything to get it running I can think about getting it inspected and back on the road. The original goal was Power Tour this year but well that isn't happening even if they push it back to August so plan is to get it on the road this summer and take a few longish trips to solve anything that comes up for next year.
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Jun 11, 2020 14:02
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One of my dream cars has always been my uncle's 1969 Grand Prix. These are pretty cool too.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:58
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Looks neat, bookmarked
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Jun 11, 2020 22:09
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That looks tidy for a car of its age
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Jun 12, 2020 00:04
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My only question is what color you're painting that pontiac 350. Props for using the pontiac 350 over a regular sbc though given theres gonna be some weirdness finding parts for it because apparently olds, pontiac and chevy 350s are just different enough to cause headaches for no god drat good reason. 
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Jun 12, 2020 00:48
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Apart from the trunk and a bit in the fenders the body isn’t bad and the frame is just dirty. Everything near me is just rust with a side of animal poop. The 350 is currently the original Pontiac Blue and since the rest of the car has the survivor/patina theme going I just degreased it and will leave it as is. Parts for the 350 are not bad to find but it is a 74 engine so has something like 7 to 1 compression. However it was from a GTO and the guy I bought it from had put in a can, roller rockers and some head work done before just pulling it to install a 455. I am not looking for crazy power and depending on how things go I might just have to grab some higher comp heads and have the valve and piston work done. It is more work than getting power from a SBC but if I was going to go through the hassle of fabing engine mounts I would just throw an LS in it with a carb intake manifold.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:00
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 Almost done patching the trunk until my finest Harborfreightium rivet gun decided to self destruct so off I go to buy another one. Since I have tons of rivets to do on the body for the license plates going to grab an air one. Once this is sorted time to put the rear end back in today as long as it doesn’t get too gross.
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Jun 12, 2020 14:15
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BigPaddy posted:Parts for the 350 are not bad to find but it is a 74 engine so has something like 7 to 1 compression. 
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Jun 12, 2020 19:19
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Hood mounted Tach is tempting. New 9.3 rear end with posi and 3.90 gears. Going to be able to put that in tomorrow since...  Control arms, springs and shocks are in along with the new brake lines so I can put the rear disc conversion on. Shouldn’t take long unless there is fuckery afoot.
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Jun 12, 2020 21:50
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BigPaddy posted:Hood mounted Tach is tempting. I'm just saying that turbocharged low-compression small blocks are a Pontiac tradition. The hood-mounted boost meter is from a Trans Am.
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Jun 13, 2020 01:24
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This project owns. That front end looks way better than the one that was on it. Any particular reason you didn't go after a 455 yourself?
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Jun 13, 2020 09:38
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I know there were turbo 301s, this is just low comp because 70s oil crisis and smog. Considering the low comp I was tempted at throwing boost at it but i am going to check the compression with the unknown cam and other work before I commit. I picked the 350 up because it was local and cheap, a 455/400 core that barely spins will be the best part of $1500. Unlike Chevy or mopar big blocks Pontiac v8s were not used in trucks or motor homes so supply is limited.
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Jun 13, 2020 11:06
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It's cool that you're going with a Pontiac engine for it. It'll make it stand out more than an LS would.
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Jun 13, 2020 17:59
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 Busy morning, got the center section in.  Axels and brakes on.  Amazingly the rear end isn’t crooked and pushing the tires into the fenders! Next on the list is sorting out the hinges in the trunk, bleeding the brakes then I can start thinking about getting the engine and trans back in and middle through the wiring.
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Jun 14, 2020 19:09
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Elmnt80 posted:because apparently olds, pontiac and chevy 350s are just different enough to cause headaches for no god drat good reason. ...Just different enough to cause issues? A Pontiac 350 (or Buick, or Olds) is as different from a SBC as a Ford 351W is. They share fuel system parts and that's it. This build is very much my poo poo, sub'd
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Jun 14, 2020 23:29
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NumbersMatching320 posted:...Just different enough to cause issues? A Pontiac 350 (or Buick, or Olds) is as different from a SBC as a Ford 351W is. They share fuel system parts and that's it. Just trans adapt a SBC and laugh all the way to the bank to withdraw half as much cash.
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Jun 16, 2020 01:42
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Does that have what they called the slim-jim transmission? You'll probably want to jettison that and use a TH350 or 400.
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Jun 16, 2020 04:17
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It had a hydromatic 3 speed, the all cast iron pre turbo hydromatic transmission that were only used for a few years. I have a rebuild BOP TH400 to use now with an American Shifter Company kit to replace the original console shifter that didn’t look like it would work. As for just throwing a SBC in if I was going to do that then we are back to using an LS since mounting the engine would be the same effort. I am not married to using a Pontiac engine forever but since I am not looking for huge power numbers I am taking the easy route and just bolting in what I have.
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Jun 16, 2020 10:11
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Grab an LS out of a Trans-Am 
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Jun 16, 2020 15:50
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The engine conversation is a fun one. You can, for example, drop $7k and get a stroked 455 that runs about 425 hp from one of the builders that specializes in Pontiac V8s. Now would I do that? No not really because this car is a land barge that will never be fast. It is a dumb, ratty old car for doing Power Tour that I might throw a 100 shot of NO2 on for giggles. When I blow the 350 up I can either buy another 350 or a 400 for not a lot of money and throw it in or just bite the bullet and stick an LS in and be done with it. Going the LS or even a BBC route would mean less money, more parts availability and more power but again it is a barge so does it even matter as long as it cruises, makes a good noise and can light the tires up? I do want to build something fast for Rocky Mountain Race Week and Drag Week eventually but that will likely be a late 60s to early 70s Elco because I like them, all the 1st gen Camaro stuff bolts on and you have a bed for carrying all your stuff. As for last weekend it was 90+ and 100% humidity so not a lot got done beyond bleeding and fixing leaks in the new brake system and starting to measure up for making seat mounts. The original ones are next to impossible to find and the impala ones I did get only half work so I likely will use those and modify them. The main issue is the mounts in the car are in need of cleaning up and welding in a few places. I have a long weekend over the 4th coming up so planning to do that then as well as throw the fuel tank back in, fill the rear end with oil to make sure it doesn't leak (it will) and finish up the emergency brake cables. Once that is all done I am going to start planning what I will do about getting the engine and trans in. Throttle linkage needs modifying, some of the old trans linkage need to be cut out and a new hole for the shifter made before worrying about wiring and plumbing the thing.
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Jun 22, 2020 14:09
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Trunk hinge replaced and now the trunk closes for the first time in at least 20 years.  Have a spare for when the other one decides to do the same thing. Followed the not GM approved method of torsion spring install that involves a ratchet strap pulling them into position via the cross bar of the car port. Most places I found said to just gorilla them in place but with the tension those are under of I slipped and got a finger stuck between the bar and the slot I would be -1 finger. Going to see if I can get the fuel tank and diff oil in tomorrow first thing then think about starting to assemble the transmission shifter etc... so I can measure out where to cut a hole in the floor for it to go through. With a 4 day weekend next weekend I am thinking about planning to get the engine and trans in place so I can work on wiring everything up and trying to start it as well as measuring for a drive shaft.
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Jun 27, 2020 21:52
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Yanked the engine and transmission out of shed today preparing to get them mated and in the car over the weekend.   Made some coolant lines, put the dip stick in, wires the electric kick down box, put the cross member mount on and oh ... tried to put the speedo drive in. You see the kit I bought had all the gears and the housing but not a $2 clip to hold the gear to the output shaft. So waiting for that since no parts stores or any GM dealers have. I am probably going to mate the engine and transmission and do the speedo drive with everything in the car since it is not hard to get to. Engine does have power steering but the pump is not in the picture. Need to grab some belts and one more apart plug because hey buy 8 get -1 free, as in one of the boxes had a 3 and not 4. Cars are fun!
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Jul 2, 2020 21:49
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If the Pontiac doesn't work, but it in the Porsche!
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Jul 2, 2020 22:22
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Pros: No IMS issues, v8 boxster Cons: 350 Pontiac had less power than the flat six in the Boxster
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Jul 2, 2020 22:49
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 I now pronounce you engine and transmission you may install the drive train.  What can go wrong? Oh yeah I spent hours trying to get it to go forward a couple of inches and wondered if installing it all together was the right plan. Doing it by myself isn’t helping. Going to call it for today and have some burgers on the grill and come back to it tomorrow. Main thing is the angle the thing has to go in has the trans hitting the floor so I am going to lift it up and try to drop with a trans jack under to try to level everything and allow me to move everything back. Doesn’t help that the engine mounts have bolts that go through the frame and not studs with a nut so I can use the studs as a guide.
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Jul 4, 2020 20:45
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Rage quitting and then coming back later is the only way I've ever successfully installed an engine by myself, and that was without doing the transmission at the same time. I'm jealous of all this progress you're making; I'm just spending my nights locked in decision paralysis while trying to figure out what parts I want, second guessing the parts purchases I've already made. Rock on!
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Jul 4, 2020 21:15
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Seconding that stopping a frustrating job before you gently caress up, and coming back to it is always the right decision.
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Jul 5, 2020 05:36
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My new plan is to cut some all thread to length to make studs, lift the engine up and take the mounts off, put the all thread in so I have the studs to use to locate the engine in the bay and then use nuts. Considering every other GM engine mount design uses something you can locate without having to constantly go under the car I curse whoever came up with this design.
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Jul 5, 2020 10:59
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So didn’t need to cut all thread or anything as I got the engine into place but then found the engine mounts were about 1/4 inch thicker than they should be so.... arse Ordered different ones that claim to be oem direct replacement  like the ones I have are not. If that does not work I will have to grind the mounting holes larger since the engine sits higher on the mounts to get the holes aligned.
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Jul 5, 2020 15:55
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That's one of the most frustrating things ever.
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Jul 5, 2020 17:25
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ANCHOR
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Jul 5, 2020 19:32
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this is how I learned to never ever ever buy Anchor brand mounts. God, what trash. I bought a set and the rubber was falling off of the metal already when I took them out of the box.
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Jul 5, 2020 20:00
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Even the “correct” mounts need part of the metal removed to fit under the boss for the mount on a Pontiac A Body. Most places say grind a bunch of material off the block but why do that when I can remove about an inch of material that is not even part of the load bearing part of the mount?
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Jul 6, 2020 00:05
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You cursed me and one of the new mounts was from Anchor. There now stay in you gently caress. Getting the hood on now which is fun because Pontiac loves them those carriage bolts.
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Jul 6, 2020 15:13
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Today I learn to weld Good enough. That will teach them carriage bolts to spin when I want to get the hood on.
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Jul 11, 2020 17:43
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Excellent weld!
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Jul 11, 2020 18:09
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Post it in the EV thread and say it's on a Tesla. I'm curious how many in there believe it, how many defend it, and how many get it right away.
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Jul 11, 2020 22:01
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Engine and trans in and secured so want to try and crank the thing over. https://imgur.com/gallery/ZUjsVOI It will turn over for a second then stop and need to be turned by hand before it will turn over for a second. Battery is reading 12.5v so I was leaning towards the starter not engaging properly. It just a standard GM starter and the fact it does engage a little and then will click out once I turn it by hand which again points to low battery. Any thing else beyond sucky wires before I got get the battery tested?
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Jul 19, 2020 14:36
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Measure voltage during cranking? I'm guessing it drops down to 8v or less. You could try jump starting it or just swapping with a known good battery from another car temporarily. Also make sure you have a good solid ground from the block to the body or battery. That's an easy one to forget during install. LloydDobler fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Jul 19, 2020 |
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Jul 19, 2020 15:18
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LloydDobler posted:Also make sure you have a good solid ground from the block to the body or battery. That's an easy one to forget during install. Battery is 90% charged and in good health when it was checked so going to throw some new ground straps on things. When the temperature is being measured in Solar Outputs.
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Jul 19, 2020 18:14
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