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my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Dominions are a multiplayer game pretending to be a single player game, Elysium is a single player game pretending to be a multiplayer game. :v:

More seriously, Elysium is generally a game on a much smaller scale, but somehow with a lot less scripting. The spritework and interface is shared quite a bit. The writing and unit descriptions are generally humorous, and done in character by not-Roman scribes, one of whom may be extremely salty about being rejected by a Caelian scout.

(As an aside, there's an ongoing Dominions 5 lets play at the moment in the LP forum)

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my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
I'm a big fan of the first Eador, but you deffo need to play that game with the same mindset you'd play a roguelike with.

e: I'd also suggest the New Genesis mod, it's basically as if the game got a free expansion pack, and the mod author had support from the makers of the game to be able to overhaul some stuff.

e2: People tend to play the campaign and burn out horribly on doing the same stuff over and over again before they even get the chance to play with the cool toys. Do the tutorial and a few shards to get a feel for the game and then just play skirmish maps instead.

my dad fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Aug 23, 2021

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

victrix posted:

Interesting, this the Eador mod you're taking about?

http://eador.com/B2/viewtopic.php?t=4559

Yeah I mixed up the names, New Horizons

It's even got a wiki somewhere with unit stats and event resolutions that's more accurate than anything existing for vanilla, but I'm not sure if it's being updated anymore

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

Knightsoul posted:

Any trip report on Pax Nova? it seems to me a pretty obscure 4X game where I can't decide if it's worth the money spent ( even more so now with the latest dlc "Beyond the Rift" published some time ago).

A buddy played it and described it as "bland beyond belief"

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
A buddy played the dune 4x, and his opinion is that the harkonen and the fremen are significantly stronger than the other two.

With the right councilor combo, the fremen come swinging right out of the gate with their fighters who can 1v3 indies with a bit of micro (walk up to the ranged guys so they start trying to club you, but focus on fighting the melee guys) to loot and expand, and get absolutely insane spice income in addition to being able to just ruin someone's spice mining operations with multiple simultaneous devastating deep strikes.

Harkonen can grab feyd and raban and just explode their economy, while being almost invulnerable on the defense. The +200% resource bonus from opressing villages is insane, it gets better the more militia you have there, and if they're stupid enough to rebel, you can farm them for enormous amounts of influence, letting you beat the atreides at their own game in the landsraad. Unlike booming strats in most 4x games, there is a direct feedback loop between your military power and your economic power without any conflict. You don't have to take any risks to do this, your militia will easily handle any raids, and you will be causing the risk of rebelions deliberately, so you can make sure to have a pair of soldiers close enough to act. Just don't neglect your manpower buildup, and the game will be way too easy.



In general, with all factions, use no less than 2 and no more than 3 ornitopters to scout not counting any temporary free ones you find, and don't bother scanning villages until you've found spice and scan the village in that area (it's on the rocks). After that, again, don't scan villages unless you want to take a province, scan the other stuff there to learn where the goodies are at. You want your first conquest to be a spice province. After that, figure out which province is going to be your central hub for AoE buildings like the maintenance depot, spice silo, and military base, ideally next to your HQ and between 2 spice fields, and expand into it and around it. Use your neighboring provinces in the opposite direction as sack towns if your troops are ever idle. Influence is a major bottleneck in the game, but the 5% penalty for expanding to a village right next to your HQ is trivial even if repeated a bunch of times, and the gold you can use to pay merchants to spread propaganda about you for way more influence.

Amateurs will tell you that the most important resources on Arakis are water and spice. They are wrong. It's space concrete. Make space concrete everywhere. You can never have enough space concrete, you make every building with space concrete, you can get more building slots with space concrete, and the AI buys loving truckloads of space concrete. All hail space concrete, may it cover Arakis in its glory.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
I'm probably about to win my current 12 player Dominions multiplayer game, it's the final turn of a throne rush. Here's a summary of that game's final turns:

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
It has ~15 gigabytes, you can't save, and it's prone to crashing.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Take over western europe, unify as EU superstate.
Take over russia, unify eurasion union, purge out servants, ally EU, conquer neighbors.
Stack some +admin +persuasion on a single councillor, take over USA, ally EU and the EAU
Stack even more +admin +persuasion on a single concillor, take over China, ally EU, USA, and EAU
let the servants take either india or pakistan, encourage humanity first to take the other, and watch the fireworks
switch focus to space. get all the best spots by virtue of autopausing the game the second the relevant research comes online and calling dibs
watch the game crash before interacting with aliens in any major way

e: "but i'll be bleeding influence from controlling so many control points"
if you aren't bleeding influence from controlling too many, you're controlling too few. use some of that research you get from having so many control points to get the tech that lets you have even more control points.

my dad fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jun 14, 2022

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
It's not quite turn based. You can issue orders to your armies inbetween turns, you can do space stuff between turns, you can change national relations between turns, etc.
The timing changes so that the game's scale can change. Notice how the initial scramble has turns that last a week, and then they double in length.

You absolutely do not want to skip the Moon, mining makes a huge difference in how much boost you need to make anything, and even the tiny trickle you get there is more than enough to massively aid the initial space rush. The trick is, you want to mine the heaviest stuff to lift, not the most expensive stuff to lift. Money is not a problem, your ability to lift things in orbit from Earth is. A single well placed mining station on the Moon cuts down the costs of boosting modules down to a third or quarter of the original cost. It seems money is intended to become an issue for the mission control modules, since they cost an arm and a leg to maintain. Early stations seem to be kind of a trap, devouring precious boost just to pay upkeep. I'd place maybe a single early station with one solar module and two xenology modules up to better keep an eye on what the aliens are doing, but that's about it. Not really worth it until you've got the stuff you want on the Moon, Mars, and maybe even the asteroid belt locked down. (you can also game the system and boost a station up, and then sell it to someone else for more boost than you paid for it, and all their orgs, and all their spare change - you will most likely do this with the moon bases once you have better bases set up elsewhere - nice way to solidify good relations with a faction and still keep a useful base slot out of the hands of your enemies)

Don't hesitate to coup/conquer nations where the executive is held by someone you don't like, or crackdown/purge when they're weak somewhere. you can disarm any nukes if you control the executive, and you can always switch your control points to spoils, and then abandon, which means it doesn't cost you upkeep, even if it doesn't benefit you much anymore and makes it really easy to take over. Spoils focus makes it harder to take the points from you since the elites are happy with giant piles of loot at their feet, and it creates huge instability that whoever inevitably takes it from you has to then deal with. You also might want to eat the influence penalty for juuuuust long enough to start a stupid war that suicides the nation's armies into something. If they eat some of the nukes under servant control in the process, even better.

Oh, and don't forget you have that cheap research that gets you influence and ops points. Early on, you don't really have research rush targets, but you absolutely need all the influence you can get your hands on, and a small reserve of ops points for emergencies.

(let me repeat: you do not need to wait for your phase to set up a basic "THIS PLACE BELONGS TO ME" base with just the central module, the game will pause when the relevant research is done and you should go to the space layer right away and place two, maybe even three. if the ai grabs a spot, that's entirely on you, send a probe asap, take spots as soon as the probe arrives. if you don't have the boost to send stuff there, don't invest in global space research until you do.)


I'd make some scathing condemnations of the game's political system, that idiotic democracy index poo poo, the ignorance of how much third world exploatation keeps the first world afloat, and the "apolitical" political statements the game makes all the time, but eh, it's not like it's something out of the ordinary in that regard.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
It's multiple different games crammed into one, and most of them don't really matter.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

dead gay comedy forums posted:

I am playing Endless Legend again, it scratches something on that direction (of Alpha Centauri). I don't know why Endless Space 2 feels like a step back somehow, though.

I found Endless Legend to be an incredibly ugly game in a weird way. The design is kind of overwhelming on the eyes, and feels like it lacked direction and went for saturation instead.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Throw fat hobbit ponies at your early game problems. Fat hobbit ponies solve a lot of them.

e: Also, enchantments you place on your units are permanent (though they require upkeep). While research is cool and good, you're better off spending your mana on keeping a bunch of these up early on - research is easier to do it once you've crushed your enemies, seen them driven before you, and heard the lamentations of their AIs.

my dad fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Oct 29, 2022

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
I liked 1 and loved 2, never played 3. However, I will never forgive MoO2 for ruining the space 4X genre because everyone afterwards tried to copy it instead of doing their own thing.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
From what I've seen of MoO3, it was an incredibly ambitious game that just didn't have access to tools needed to achieve the initial vision for it, and ended up failing. So yes, Distant Worlds (I played DW1, not 2, so can't comment on that one) are the closest you'll get to it, because it reaches for those same stars and actually manages to grab them. It's still a... game for a specific player mindset, but within that constraint, it just works.

A big thing MoO3 tried to do was to give you the ability to have actually useful automation of the sort of micromanagement that kills 4X lategame, and Distant Worlds was built from the ground up to let you just tick a "I don't want to deal with this poo poo" box for any part of the game/empire/management you're not interested in (and flip that switch on or off at any time you want) and still be an enjoyable game.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Freeciv is a free and improved version of the first civ games, it's very intuitive if you've played the series before, but much simpler overall, and easy to pick up and set down without having to worry about remembering what tile adjacencies you were reserving a tile for or whatever that the new games have. Play on one of the easier settings so the AI doesn't get a bunch of bonuses, and you're golden.



The opposite of what you're asking would be Dominions 5. I can confirm that if you're physically exhausted after a not-exactly-mentally-stimulating job, Dominions 5 turns do a wonderful job getting your brain cells to work again, especially since (if you're playing multiplayer) your brain is going to start sort of passively work on your turns while you toil away at work.
It's awful if you're already straining yourself mentally, though, but in that case I'd advise competitive grass touching instead. :v:

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

chaosapiant posted:

Anyone ever play Call to Power 2? I have it in my GOG library but never played it. I saw that it’s moddable. If I wanna give it a shot, are there any recommendations for mods or unofficial patches?

Played it as a kid, surprisingly solid. But I think has issues running on modern systems. No idea about patches.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

chaosapiant posted:

So after asking my question, I installed it and installed the unofficial Apolyton Patch/Mod, and it runs just fine. No issues and I can even set it to Widescreen. So I’m giving that a go at 1600x900 so the units and UI aren’t too small and it runs like a champ!

Cool!

Things I remember: Don't neglect public works, tile improvements are important. Remember you can change the number if your priorities change. Keep workdays high and food provisions low as much as you can without causing revolts, it greatly speeds up your production and growth (since it's based on excess food). Try not to drop your combat readyness, it takes forever to raise again, and doesn't save you that much in upkeep anyway. Keep a healthy mix of infantry, ranged, and cavalry units. Your infantry does a decent job in their weaker role if backed by ranged units or even a cavalry unit or two if it's a smaller fight where you outnumber the enemy and the flanking mechanic applies. Don't overbuild mid tier tile improvements over already existing tier 1s, since you don't get any sort of discount when upgrading or changing. First tier ones are cheap enough that you have no excuse not to spam them out ASAP. Slavery is really powerful early on, letting you farm enemies for extra pops that only eat half food, but presents a huge risk of civil war once the Emancipation Proclamation wonder is built later on. Don't underestimate agent units (the slaver being the first), when used right, their abilities are really powerful. Spreading your religion around isn't very effective since the enemy tends to just stamp it out with military units and don't care about the resulting unrest as much as you do, but abolitionists inciting slave revolts, corporate executives franchizing (watch out for lawyers, they'll literally sue you to death, and then walk over to one of your cities and file an injunction to salt the wound), and biological warfare guys crippling cities can be really potent. Ecoterrorists are basically just 'clean' nuclear weapons that don't leave polution behind, treat them as nukes since the AI does too iirc. The big ultralategame tanks you get can survive nukes, but IIRC not ecoterrorists. The tanks in question have zero mobility (which translates to: move exactly one tile no matter what road you have, the idea being that they're basically bunker cities on tracks) which means they're only really useful on the defense anyway. It's not particularly relevant if you build the nanite defuser and just delete all nukes on the map, but it's nice to know. :v:

e:

Truga posted:

also, my favourite QOL feature, settlers are only used for making cities. instead, you set a public works tax that converts production into a PW pool from which you can build tile improvements, just like tax converts trade into gold

Absolutely!

my dad fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Nov 5, 2022

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

chaosapiant posted:

Do any of you fellow 4X’rs ever play/enjoy playing Civilization scenarios from any of the games? I’ve never played one. If you have, any good ones?

Call to Power 2 has some cool ones. One is basically a small 7 samurai RPG, another is a nuclear standoff, another is the conquests of alex the great. They're kinda easy to break, and the RPG one is a bit too RNG-y, but they were good fun.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Thinking of Civ: Beyond Earth all of a sudden.

What a missed opportunity.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

chaosapiant posted:

I still enjoy that game and play it from time to time. I never had the issues with it most other folks had.

I enjoy some aspects of it, which is why I see it as a wasted opportunity. Mechanically it has some neat ideas, too. However, it's super bland, poorly balanced, and I hate the "gently caress, i hit a unit upgrade treshold before i could build enough units to scout with" aspect

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Unfortunately, once you notice that the doom horrors lack certain resistances, they become a lot easier to deal with.

Behold, Scabiel! The Maker of Ruins! Doom Horror that razes entire cities in an instant and crushes whole armies under... aaaaand it's dead. Got magically told to chill out a couple of times by two dozen ice chickens.

I do have to correct you about something:


Libluini posted:

A player can't start a Cataclysm

Strictly speaking, this is not true. The Reverse Throne Rush - Chain casting Wish and asking for a Doom Horror, and rolling that coinflip on getting temporary control of a summoned Doom Horror (lose the coinflip and your caster has to fight it 1v1). As long as it's done before Cataclysm, the Doom Horrors have a fairly low chance of deserting, and you can use them to eat thrones under other people's control. The goon 'a computing pun' (j. on discord) pulled it off to win a game twice.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Conquest of Elysium.

In CoE5, similar things can happen via events, like, for example, some moron going "i wonder what happens if i poke this" at a portal to hell.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
You have multiple good Dominions 5 servers/bots that handle all the game management stuff, leaving you only the game itself to deal with.

As for multiplayer games, it really depends on who you're playing with, and what you've been taught about how multiplayer games are played. IMO, it's a lot more important to understand the basics of early game than any of the complicated poo poo that gets talked about the most, and second most important thing is to not be too afraid of good players - there is no player who won't lose to the right kind of sucker punch or coalition. While I still played, I built up a pretty solid reputation on the goon discord, despite being genuinely bad at the extended midgame play that people generally consider the most important part of a Dominions game. I'm pretty good at exterminating early threats with early game tools, and after that I tend to use a mix of diplomacy and intimidation factor to boom into a position where I can overwhelm people with an economic advantage and a solid grand plan that is resilient to repeated tactical fuckups (I'm also pretty good at grinding away people's irl morale by refusing to take fights they spent a lot of irl time scripting for while pressing advantage with every little dick move they open themselves to with lack of attention to something)

e: Don't get me wrong, I'm a very aggressive player throughout the game, it just goes from ruthless conquest to defensive but opportunistic vulturing of weak players to ruthless conquest again.

my dad fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Dec 18, 2022

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
There is a basic level of mechanical knowledge and basic plays that you need to understand in order to be able to actually learn other things in a reasonable timeframe. Otherwise, you get overwhelmed by multiple things and can't recognize what matters and what doesn't.

Ideally, you'd first try single player both with stuff that looks cool to you and with some premade stuff and strats provided by more experienced players. That way, you can have something solid to rely on and not slip up while learning how to use the stuff that you like, and then ideally talk the strats through with the experienced players afterwards to see if there's anything big you missed.

The burnout rate among new players is huge, and from what I've been able to gather, it has a lot more to do with not understanding why they lost than with actual losses - the games don't require a lot of time in total, but they are a consistent thing you check up on regularly, and it feels incredibly lovely to look back at a game and feel like it was a waste of time.


As a bit of a personal observation, the absolute worst playes you can have around newbies aren't the rude jerks or the sweaty tryhards (although super tryhards really do suck a lot when 'no fun allowed' bullshit starts), but the... aggressive scrubs? People who will actively advise them to avoid looking for advice or using premade builds at first. These people genuinely think they're giving good advice to help people enjoy the game, often as a reaction to tryhard bullshit elsewhere, but are keeping the newbies away from a chance to get the most important basics down. And then they'll go and absolutely crush the new players in a game, not because they maliciously targeted them, but because the newbies inevitably ended up being the easiest targets. And then the newbie burns out and never plays again, and the scrub doesn't even notice.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

Corbeau posted:

I dunno, I feel like the absolute worst Dominions people (outside of the rare outright cheaters) are the kind who set up games - especially "newbie games" - with insane settings that guarantee the absolute worst verdun-esque infinite endgame slogs. Veterans figure out who's games to avoid (or join if they're of like mind), but new players don't know any better and get the worst possible introduction to the game imaginable.

It's an extension of what I said above, I think. Knowing what game settings to avoid is important mechanical knowledge. :)

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
I actually wouldn't describe it as a game of hard counters for most things, and the lack of information isn't as huge of a deal either.


My favorite example of things not actually being hard counters is with thugs. An answer to a lot of "how the gently caress do i kill this guy with 30 gems of gear that is murdering my armies" questions are "set a mage or two on advance and cast and they'll eventually cast some nasty short range spell that does the trick". And it's something that experienced players fail to do a lot, despite being trivial to script. They'll go digging through stats and gear and resistances and whatnot and make complex scripts instead of just rolling dice that favor them. Dominions are a gambler's game in some ways.


e: For counters, it doesn't matter if your enemy can counter you if you punch him hard in the face before he can actually do so.

my dad fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Dec 18, 2022

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
To quote what I said to a player from a non-goon discord who won almost every battle against me but still lost the war and the game to me (Machaka player in Mu's awoo series): "There's only so much that better scripting can do in the face of overwhelming resource advantage."

This is why I emphasize good early game so much. If you have resources to recover from mistakes, you can actually learn from those mistakes, and act on them, within a single game, which is a hell of a lot more satisfying than "RIP, better luck next time".

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
To break up the overly complex Dominions talk, here's what the game is really about - getting to see mystical mongolian cavalry fight aryan sky chickens in full HD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB1zl01OyRA

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
RIP Thea 2, the studio got forced to drop you so they could work on Master of Magic, and I'm hoping the game does better than this thread is making it sound because otherwise I don't think they'll be around anymore to return to a Thea game.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Eador Genesis is really, really, really good if you're looking for its specific niche, but it's, well, not something everyone can enjoy.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

OperaMouse posted:

You can sink 100s or 1000s of hours in the campaign

Note that this isn't flowery language. The campaign is really long.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
This just crossed my mind, to give you a sense of scale for Eador:

There's a dude on youtube who has been playing Eador's campaign on Overlord difficulty for years by this point, has 250+ videos roughly average two hours in length in the playlist, and he hasn't finished the playthrough yet. (and before someone asks, no, I didn't watch the whole playlist, just gave a few videos a quick glance to see his playstyle, and the dude does seem competent)

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
I do have to note that the game has a much, much faster pace at lower difficulties if you're semi-decent at it. It hits that sweet spot where you win an average campaign map at roughly the moment where the game would start getting tedious if it went on for longer, giving you a bit of a victory lap when you finally break an enemy's main army and start smashing everything between you and their capital city. Despite the "easy" difficulty, the final missions against rival astral masters are still quite difficult and will punish you if you drop your guard. In higher difficulties, well... it's tuned towards making everything a huge slog where you need to deal with a cheating ai and horrible penalties that require you to cheese things in a way that gets really boring really fast unless that cheese is what you actually enjoy in the game. There is no victory lap, everything is a brutal slugfest from start to finish.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Age of Wonders 3 is fun. Feel free to ask any questions you have about the campaign, my memory isn't perfect and it's been a while, but I've beaten most campaigns on hard and probably remember some useful stuff. I'd advise playing it over Eador, honestly, unless the videos convince you that Eador is 100% something you'd enjoy.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

StrixNebulosa posted:

What I expected from Age of Wonders 3 lore: generic fantasy stuff
What I got: the elves are SUPER racist against the humans, and practice eugenics

Elves, humans, and wizards (doubly so for human and elven wizards) being huge assholes in different ways is a running theme of the series.


tl;dr of age of wonders storyline up to AoW3:

There was a big kingdom of which the elves were in charge, ruled by the Elven Court from the Valley of Wonders. How good this period was for everyone depends on whether you ask an elf, but it was relatively stable. Goblins presumably didn't enjoy the choice between "live in stinky goon caves hidden from everyone" and "be slaves". There's... implications shown later that elves are not native to the world, and were brought in to do some sort of a job, but forgot about it and went native after a while.

At some point, humans, of both the regular and "high" variety (basically angels, called "Archons" in later games because highmen is an unfortunate word) start showing up from across the sea. Elves are super happy about the visitors and open up to them, helping the humans settle into a few places, and discussing fancy things with the archons who they saw themselves as having more in common with. This turns out to be a spectacularly bad idea, and what follows is a never-ending cycle of "humans burn down a bunch of poo poo, kill all the inhabitants and move in, and then the high men sweet talk the elves into not doing anything while also aggressively protecting humans from any retaliation" that eventually results in humans storming the Valley of Wonders and ending the millenia long rule of elven king Inioch (as in, "House of Inioch" - Sundren from AoW3 is his grandkid) by repeatedly stabbing him.

Elves take this extremely poorly. After a long retreat, and some kind of magical disaster that splits them into 'wood' elves and 'dark' elves, they also split into two factions along mostly the same lines, the Keepers who go gently caress it, the kingdom is gone, we're better off rebuilding our strength and improving our ties to our allies in order to survive, and the Cult of Storms who go gently caress it, kill all humans, take the kingdom back, whatever it takes. The factions aren't really outliers to previous elf behavior either way, they're just not in a position of strength that lets them still have reliable allies while also being huge dicks to them.

Age of Wonders (1):

Inioch has two kids, wood elf Julia (Sundren's future mom) who joins the Keepers, and dark elf Meandor who founds the Cult of Storms. There are two campaigns (with varying paths each), in which you get to create a character who is a high ranking commander in one of these two factions. Both campaigns canonicaly happen for the most part. Keeper protagonist stays with Keepers until the end and wins, but is so bland that he's never mentioned again and what he did is usually attributed to Julia. Cult of Storms protagonist defects to the undead near the end, and loses, but gets an actual canon name for the valiant effort. What undead you ask? The Cult of Storm had the brilliant idea to raise King Inioch from the dead as a lich of some sort, figuring he'd help them rebuild the Elven Kingdom. Wrong. Cue zombie apocalypse. Luckily for the elves, he does genuinely want to murder the humans first, causing the high men to spend all their military might on slowing down the undead horde.

In this entire clusterfuck, with the Cult of the Storms successfully wrecking both the humans and themselves, an undead problem on the loose, and all the factions having a big clash over the new human capital in the Valley of Wonders, Julia and the Keepers show up after having worked their rear end off to rebuild their strength and alliances and go hmmmmm... You know, I think we can actually kick all your asses now. Which they proceed to do, breaking the power of the Cult of Storms, putting Inioch into the ground again, killing the leader of the Archons, Gabriel (who apparently planned for a glorious death to ascend him... which does in fact work, but more on that later), and kicking the humans out of the Valley of Wonders and shattering the strength of their kingdoms. While the Keepers didn't take (much) revenge on the humans, humans had more than enough enemies by that point that it ended up almost wiping them out. The different non-canon paths give you some interesting info, like both the archons and elves being originally part of a plan to prepare the land for the humans, and that the plan in question included wiping out all non-humans, but gathering elven souls to give them new bodies elsewhere so they can continue their job in a new world.

As an aside, I love the Cult of Storms protagonist, he's an unapologetic dickwad who's in it for the sake of power, and it's pretty much outright stated that he cucks Meandor. (speaking of which, Meandor's wife Melenis gets killed during the campaign by the Keeper protagonist, but you'll see her undead form eventually in AoW3) In the non-canon path where he defects to the Archons, he gets increasingly annoyed by the holier-than-thou high men who ask him to kill people for them but then theatrically feel bad about it:


Age of Wonders 2:

You get this stuff mostly explained in AoW3. Magic gets stronger, powerful immortal wizard kings rise, humans get second wind because Gabriel (not so dead after all) teaches Merlin how to become the most powerful mage ever, and they rebuild their strength, and things escalate from there. Merlin managed to reconcile humans and elves with the help of Julia. Weird poo poo from other dimension invades, Merlin and Julia stop it. After the events of the game and the expansion, Jullia marries a dark elf and with Merlin's help they magically fix the elves back into being a single species. Basically, the sorcerous parts of the elf faction you get are dark elf (and Cult of Storms) flavored, and the unicorn forest stuff is wood elf flavor. So, yes, they're huge assholes who practice eugenics, among other things. This stuff all gets explained in AoW3 along the way, I just put it here to connect the AoW plot to the situation you start off with in AoW3.

my dad fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Feb 22, 2023

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

Jossar posted:

So as someone who liked the idea of Eador: Genesis, but found it got really plodding, really quickly, does New Horizons solve that on the lower difficulties (obviously we've been talking about how that is... not the case for the higher ones)? Or if I found Genesis plodding is it never really going to click?

Since New Horizons is free, the easiest way to find out is to check it out. New Horizons fixes some of the issues of the vanilla game, and gives you more cool stuff to look forward to, and better tools to deal with certain enemies, but whether that's enough is something you'd have to decide for yourself.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Haegemonia is a 4X, yes. An unconventional one, but a 4X none-the-less. The campaign de-emphasises 4X elements, but skirmish games are absolutely 4X games.

I loved that game, jank and all.

e: Should have quoted you, ha, now this looks out of context after your edit

my dad fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Mar 18, 2023

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
We'll see what Age of Wonders 4 is like at the very least.

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my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

dead gay comedy forums posted:

anything promising from there?

Nothing specific crosses my mind, but a lot of stuff from previous games is being overhauled in a way that, among other things, seems like it might be easier for an ai to handle, which generally tends to improve the experience of dealing with an AI without actually needing to improve anything about the AI.

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