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ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

angryrobots posted:

TOU billing doesn't necessarily have anything to do with workplace charging? Residential TOU billing would create an incentive to charge off-peak, either by behavior changes and/or participating in smart charging systems (to be implemented). Specifically, it helps with scenario #2 in the posted article where EV adoption can continue without massive upgrades in distribution and more NG usage to accommodate bigger daily peaks.

Yes, ideally workplace charging becomes the norm which also shifts load to solar, but the article didn't say this was part of their study or the two given scenarios.
Kind've depends on if we want to better utilize the current grid delivery capacity (overnight) and run EV charging on base load generation and/or utility scale batteries, or add grid delivery capacity and run EV charging on solar (workplace charging).

Best option is both, of course.

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ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

MomJeans420 posted:

The problem with workplace charging is it requires such a massive investment to your typical office building, and then I'm assuming they'll want to charge you for the power. But I'm not sure it's worth building the infrastructure to charge you for the power when your typical person wants to park there 8 or 10 hrs a day, then the charger isn't used the rest of the time.
Workplace charging would be fine on 110v, you're there for roughly 8 hours. But running a single 240v50a service out and multiple connected chargers per line would give a good connection and plenty of speed for people to shuffle the cars around during lunch.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Yuns posted:

As a rider, I'm not super enamored of EV motorcycles. The problem is that most motorcycles already have insane power to weight and the acceleration problems mostly have to do with keeping the front end down. An EVs torque benefit therefore isn't that great and the added weight of the battery and motors can make it less nimble and therefore overall slower in corners. So as I posted in cycle asylum, the more I think about it; the more I think that motorcycle EVs make the most sense from a cruiser/tourer perspective more than from a sportbike perspective. The heavy weight of cruisers/tourers wouldn't necessarily increase (and could decrease) with the right battery and motor choice and the extra torque would be great for moving along a big cruiser or Goldwing. Maybe cruisers wouldn't work given that even getting the cruiser guys to accept liquid cooling was challenging. But an EV Goldwing could be well received depending on range and refueling. I hope the Harley Davidson Livewire succeeds but at $29,799 it's a tough sell. it really needed to be cheaper than HD's top of range motorcycles.
I normally ride a ninja 650, which is a pretty decent little bike to out around town in. I did a test ride on an FR/S, and if I was going to keep riding I would have bought it on the spot. The difference in responsiveness is lovely for a dairy rider. The 650 is already pretty good at responding at low RPM, but the difference was huge. With the side benefit of being able to put feet down at lights without having to hold the clutch or deal with shifting into/out-of neutral. Was just super pleasant to test ride. I'd go for the sport fairing version because the riding position wasn't what I was used to, but overall A+.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:

I've never leased a car before, so hearing that I can come out ahead by borrowing a grocery getter from GM makes me doubt. They make you maintain auto insurance on it, and pay for that out of your own pocket, right? Do those costs make the whole thing actually cost money?

e: I'm assuming y'all are a bunch of risk-averse 30somethings here.
More than if you don't have a car now, insurance is about the same as a gas car, depending on which car you are replacing. Adding a second car usually doesn't cost a lot for insurance.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Ola posted:

To take a trip on this:



Such a nice way to cruise. 100% battery electric, you only hear the water rippling in the wake. The trip is 2 hours, it cruises at 14 knots. Their recharge time varies between 30 and 60 minutes in port throughout the day. If you want to take a ride, travel here: https://www.visitflam.com/

I-Pace was nice too. 19" rims don't look the coolest, but the ride was good. A bit noisy in tunnels. ACC is good but the lane keeper doesn't do much. More of a safety thing for falling asleep, not really a driving assist system. Perhaps there are levels in the options?

e: do we really need to do timg anymore? The pics autosize to screen width and you download the same amount anyway.
Where is this at?

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Nfcknblvbl posted:

It seems unlikely they'll make DCFC-capable ATVs and snowmobiles since Zero hasn't made any motorcycles capable of that yet. Also, not many DC chargers out in the woods.
The new F-150 and CT will support 7.2kw output. Either would be ideal for something like this. Though, granted that isn't DCFC.

ilkhan fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Sep 29, 2020

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Elviscat posted:

7.2kw is enough to charge your dirt bike while taking a break from the track/trails though... that'd be a hell of a setup.
Exactly. Though I'm thinking more of charging an electric bike during a track day.

Charging a dirt bike while eating lunch would be too easy.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Nostalgic Cashew posted:

Yeah, I'm scratching my head on some of the things in this report. A private bike has ~10% of the pkm GHG emissions than an ICE car? What? for a device that has 1% the mass of an ICE car? Also it looks like the assumption is that the infrastructure cost is similar, which seems odd on the face of it. I'll need to read more closely.
Most bicycles don't get very many miles, so manufacturing isn't distributed by much.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

MomJeans420 posted:

The main difference between the Hummer and the Model S Model X Model 3 Model Y Cybertruck is the Hummer will actually get produced

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Indiana_Krom posted:

Something I wonder about that Hummer EV, it would be interesting to see if someone could build one with similar acceleration figures but using a conventional combustion engine. 1000 HP combustion engines aren't common, but it isn't like there are none out there. How different would such a vehicle be, how much would it weigh, would it still fit inside a similar sized frame? Is this something that is only practical as an EV, or could they have made one using a conventional engine that ran on conventional fuel?
The acceleration (0-60 number anyway) won't even be close. ICE doesn't have 0 RPM torque like electric does, nor does it have the traction control ability, nor does it have the flat torque curve. Those and more combine to make ICE quick pretty uncompetitive for that kind of acceleration.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

PIZZA.BAT posted:

Yeah it's what I've had my eye on as well and it still seems weird how little discussion it's generating
It doesn't do anything the Y doesn't do, while charging slower, being slower, having shorter range, and not having supercharger access. Almost literally the only benefit is not having a tesla badge. I guess it supports car play and android auto, which the Y doesn't... It was a lot more interesting when the Y was going to be late and they'd be out about the same time. Alas, Tesla went and hosed that up.

I'm a Ford fanboy, and I still looked at it and went "meh".

ilkhan fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Oct 25, 2020

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Bum the Sad posted:

I read the actual article with details. Tesla scored higher on the functionality, they only scored GM higher because it nags you more and is thus "safer." Pretty loving dumb.
At this point anything that doesn't nag you into not bothering is going to be deemed unsafe by mags and worrywarts who can't see the forest through the trees.

ilkhan fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Oct 29, 2020

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

mobby_6kl posted:

I'm not mad about it since I was never going to buy it anyway. But they made a big deal of the 35k EV and are now doing the same with the 25k one so it's pretty funny.
It's more that everyone talks about starting price and ignores the fact that no manufacturer sells more than a token number of zero option vehicles. It's a bigger deal for tesla due to the small number of available options and web configuration method, but not in any way limited to tesla.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

RZA Encryption posted:

Here's a good read of a horrible time a Jalopnik writer had riding a LiveWire in California.

https://jalopnik.com/i-took-a-harley-davidson-livewire-on-a-road-trip-and-ev-1845749463

A good reminder that charging infrastructure density is really, really important so that people don't have to worry about this happening to them, even if it might be easily avoidable with planning.
That really is about worst case scenario. As much as Tesla BEV cars are about ready, non-tesla and motorcycles still have a ways to go. And that's about as friendly a road corridor as possible as was mentioned.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.
Not the best method of charging, but an interesting video nevertheless.

https://youtu.be/EEIN6-cVLRg

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Charles posted:

How much do you pay to get the hybrid and then the 7.2kw package, though?
About 3.5k, depending on the trim. Default on the HEV is the 2.4kW output.

LibCrusher posted:

I wonder why they hybridized the 3.5 instead of the 2.7
3.5 needs the mileage boost more, and probably has a stronger idle.

ilkhan fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Dec 3, 2020

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Shamino posted:

It's so strange to me the legacy manufacturers (other than Chevy, and to a lesser extent Ford) are being dragged kicking and screaming into the EV era. I would think it they would be all about EVs since they're radically easier to manufacture.
Batteries are expensive, and their experience is with ICE not electric motors.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.
Most of those regulatory credits are just funding the expansion pace. Without them they could still be profitable and expand, but it wouldn't be as quick.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Zero One posted:

I'm imagining that the dealer wanted to sell you a regular Mustang.

Mostly because I have heard of Bronco reservation holders who were offered the chance to switch to a Bronco Sport by their dealers.
By regular I'm guessing he means non-GT models. Not ICE mustang.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Indiana_Krom posted:

Though the cybertruck then raises a lot of questions, but we are presuming it will have a significantly higher capacity pack (up to 200 kWh?) to push through the atmosphere.
CT is probably significantly more aero then people expect. The nose is simple and edged, the rest is all smooth, the underside is probably covered as well. Definitely better than ICE trucks. It'll still be big and heavy though.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

MomJeans420 posted:

Charles has it right - A cybertruck may get built, THE cybertruck will not
True. The real question is how far off the concept will be from production. And I'm betting it's far closer than you think.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Shamino posted:

Keep moving them goalposts.
He's got them on wheels at this point.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.
Standard range / RWD model Y is now on their site.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

gwrtheyrn posted:

Wasn't this something they said they had cancelled?
Yeah. But it's there, along with 7 seater. Couple grand more than they originally said, so maybe they just decided it wasn't worth it at their original price.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Ola posted:

Speaking of gas, most places still have the old routine of pumping first and paying inside the station afterwards. A full tank of gas can be $100 and it's quite common that people run away from it. It has been for many decades. And yet, it's such a small problem overall that they haven't bothered inventing a system that could prevent it. So yeah, if you live in a good society, you can have good things. If you live in a wasteland of crime and vandalism, well, you probably have bigger problems than smooth user experiences anyway.
I've never in my life seen pump then pay at a gas station.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

stevewm posted:

They will follow Tesla, but worse...

Won't be J1772 compatible. Can only use Sony "DC Duo Pro" fast chargers.
Nah, it'll be dc duo for 2022, dc duo pro for 2023, and dc duo plus for 2023. Then they'll drop out of the market.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

MrYenko posted:

Adaptive cruise is by far the more important tool, imo. Lane keeping is nice, but effective adaptive cruise is a game changer for commuting.
they're both pretty drat helpful. Good lane-keep is great, ping pong lane-keep is terribad.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.
The loss of the indicator and transmission stalks is downright baffling. The rest of the refresh seems damned nice. Did they confirm its the new cell size?

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.
If they expect to be able to go from point A to point B without human intervention it's going to be pretty good at picking a direction. Multi point turns are the only thing I can think of where it's not obvious. Maybe an empty parking lot when you could pick anything, but it'll default to forward.

I'm sure it'll have gear position shown on the front screen, so it's not going to surprise you. The car already knows when you get in. Put foot on the brake and it picks a gear, put foot on accelerator and you're off. Simple enough. They also have millions of miles worth of data to do neural leaning against. I bet it's 99.9% accurate for 95% of drivers day 1 and will become 99.9% accurate for the remaining 5% of drivers with a month of training for your preference.

Short version, you'll almost never interact with the touch screen anyway.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:

99.9% is terrible for a car, given the number of actions a driver takes and Godholio not unresonably outlined.

Edit : Removing RCP error on my part
Fine. Add as many nines as you need to be satisfied.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Westy543 posted:

...I basically just browse SA by my bookmarks at this point.
Same.

And I also don't think we need a split at this point.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Malpenix Blonia posted:

You should definitely take a rear-facing child seat with you when you go look at vehicles.
This is frustratingly true.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.
People keep saying that the non-tesla networks in the US are catching up. But anytime I see an actual test they fail miserably. They may catch up some day, but they aren't there yet.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Finger Prince posted:

I'm probably an outlier case, but I can't imagine any scenarios that I'd want to travel more than 300km one way in a single day non-stop. Even when I fly to Calgary to ski, the farthest I'm going to drive is Golden or Fernie, which are both under 300km away. A trip that far will usually have an overnight stay, and even if not, would definitely have a stop on the way back for food. Maybe I have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a road trip is, and most people think it's about covering the most possible amount of distance in the least possible amount of time, but I don't think it's unreasonable or unfathomable to do a road trip in a non-tesla. The longest road trip I've done is Mukilteo to San Francisco via Eugene, Eureka, and Sonoma overnights, with side trips and meandering, and that was just over 1000 miles with no day greater than 300 miles (and even that one broken up with a stop in Portland). That was a road trip. Also could be done without supercharging.
My May road trip was 3800 miles over 5 days of driving (2 days out, 3 days back, with a week in between and some sights on the way back even). We did our move in July (1700 miles) in 3 days. Not normal, but it does happen on road trips. Day 1 of that was reno to cheyenne. With a 3 week old.

I've done 350km (total) round trips in the same day on, if not a lot of occasions than at least more than a few.

ilkhan fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Feb 22, 2021

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.
So less range and about halfway between a performance and AWD-LR Model Y for 0-60?

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Olympic Mathlete posted:

New Scientist has an article out today about self driving cars and researchers saying that pedestrians should wear sensors in order to not get mowed down by them.

If your car already fitted with 360 degree sensor arrays and supermagic AI capable of billions of calculations a second isn't already able to avoid hitting stuff they should probably not be on the roads yet.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2270282-should-we-all-wear-sensors-to-avoid-being-run-over-by-driverless-cars

quote:

says a team of researchers that has created a device to make people more visible to a vehicle’s artificial intelligence.
No bias there.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

YOLOsubmarine posted:

Literally the only person saying that we are anywhere close to fully functional self driving cars owns a car company promoting their self driving tech, but you seem to believe that poo poo without concern for bias.
Of course Tesla is biased. But there's also videos of cars driving point to point without the driver touching the wheel. That is generally called evidence. I don't think they're going to be perfect, and they certainly are not perfect today, but better than humans is a bar they aren't far from achieving, if they haven't already. There are definitely some situations that are more difficult for them, and it will take a long time to get those sorted out.

CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:

Waymo themselves have stated their cars can not do level 5 and they have problems with level 4 unless they are in a tightly controlled / mapped enviroment. Construction zones gently caress them. Snow / rain still confuse the cars.
Construction zones and snow/rain still gently caress with human drivers too.

Full L5 (no steering wheel in the car) is a long long ways away. Full L4 (it just does there unused) is not.

ilkhan fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Mar 7, 2021

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.
Nothing. It's still a perpetual 10 years away thing. Except for all the intermediate steps and features they add / have added along the way. They can mostly navigate parking lots, they can mostly navigate surface streets, they can mostly navigate freeways.

There's a lot of glue to put those together seamlessly, and a lot of work to do on each section. But the individual parts are getting visible progress. Not perfection, but progress.

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Clayton Bigsby posted:

It'd make a lot more sense for people to accept that they might need to rent a vehicle very occasionally in order to haul something bigger. Renting a trailer once every month or so, or maybe even an entire van to haul some big furniture, is a small expense and lets you drive a more reasonably sized vehicle the rest of the time.
Really depends on how often you do it and how much that time/effort is worth to you.

A lot people have done that math (explicitly or implicitly) and decided they'd rather have the truck in their driveway than rent.

A lot of things are cheaper to rent once or twice a year, but people keep buying for reasons.

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ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.
The issue with city parking afaik is outlets, not necessarily breaker space.

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