|
Fojar38 posted:Canada wins by k/d ratio canada shot first
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 05:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 02:52 |
|
|
Stanley Tucheetos posted:Also If they really wanted to cavalry charge for whatever reason they could shoot smoke rounds and blind the tiger while advancing. After all it is much harder to hit what you can't see. If only they were making a feature film for entertainment and not a documentary. In Any event, IIRC there is nobody but the tank between the Germans and the American rear, which would have been unable to defend itself properly. So if they don’t stop the Germans there will be terrible Allied casualties and disruption to the supply chain. I wish I hadn’t read that post about Vampure camps. That should have been spoilered and NMSed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 10:16
|
|
|
Yeah from what I remember the allies are marching on and somehow the big ss division slipped through and is wandering around vaguely towards the rear and the three tanks are the only thing that can stop them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 10:25
|
|
|
Jestery posted:My grandfather was captured in WW2 This is really cool. How long was he a prisoner for? Until the end of the war by the looks of it?
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 10:45
|
|
|
Fury was ridiculous. It really veered off towards cartoonishness at the end when 3 guys in a destroyed tank kill like 200 germans because the germans keep running infront of their guns The germans are just completely dumbfounded by this stationary heap of metal and can't figure out what to do
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 10:53
|
|
|
Jacada posted:This is really cool. How long was he a prisoner for? Until the end of the war by the looks of it? That appears to be the case I don't have a huge amount of info about him, those scraps are about the extent of information I have, there is unfortunately some awkward family blood there
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 10:57
|
|
|
Stanley Tucheetos posted:The only thing the Italians did halfway right was their naval communications. The allies didn't completely break their codes. The Germans ruined that by eventually forcing them to use their unbreakable system that was already completely broken. the italians weren't really as bad as they are depicted in anglo, german, and soviet history books and propaganda. most of their problems arose from mussolini commanding them to attack before enough troops were gathered, and their lack of mechanization. so in infantry vs. infantry combat in greece they got a beating because they had only about 1/3 of the troops the italian generals had estimated they needed, and on desert and steppes they had no fast moving reserves to plug in the breakthroughs. in those battles where they had the needed equipment they performed as well as anyone else. and their elite units ranked amongst the best in the world. they get a bad rep because of mussolini being mussolini and because of racism.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 16:47
|
|
|
ChubbyChecker posted:the italians weren't really as bad as they are depicted in anglo, german, and soviet history books and propaganda. most of their problems arose from mussolini commanding them to attack before enough troops were gathered, and their lack of mechanization. so in infantry vs. infantry combat in greece they got a beating because they had only about 1/3 of the troops the italian generals had estimated they needed, and on desert and steppes they had no fast moving reserves to plug in the breakthroughs. in those battles where they had the needed equipment they performed as well as anyone else. and their elite units ranked amongst the best in the world. they get a bad rep because of mussolini being mussolini and because of racism. also the whole fascism thing
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 16:54
|
|
|
Strumpie posted:also the whole fascism thing yes that too. they genocided hundreds of thousands of people.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 17:01
|
|
|
Ben Macintyre's SAS: Rogue Heroes is a fascinating read on how the SAS was formed out of some weird necessity to cause chaos in the North Africa Theater in early WWII.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 17:20
|
|
|
Re Italian incompetence: In the early days of the European war, when the French and British were getting their poo poo kicked in by the Germans, the Italians decided they wanted in on this action and attacked via the south of France with 40 divisions. The French had 3 divisions defending. Final score was several thousand Italians dead vs single digit French casualties, and the Italians didn't break through until the Germans came down and hit the French in the rear.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 21:44
|
|
|
Stanley Tucheetos posted:The only thing the Italians did halfway right was their naval communications. The allies didn't completely break their codes. The Germans ruined that by eventually forcing them to use their unbreakable system that was already completely broken. Also be way way less racist than the Germans and some of the smaller Fash countries, so that it was an open secret among Jews and other targeted groups to haul rear end to Italian occupation zones instead of sit around in German ones. You saw this in the Balkans especially.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 21:47
|
|
|
anyway here is a ww2 era greek pop song making fun of mussolini and clearly being done in a mocking Italian sounding melody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8doz7RJm6s "On the mountains he meets with our brave man, the evzon, who shocks the master the spaghetti eater."
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 22:10
|
|
|
ChubbyChecker posted:yes that too. they genocided hundreds of thousands of people. Man they weren't even good at what fascists are known for. Just embarrassing all around
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 22:33
|
|
|
Mussolini only has himself to blame but to Italy as a whole Germany really was a lovely ally, and once Italy turned, hoo boy the Germans did not take that well. I’m reading a book analysing German pow transcripts recorded in secret and the utter contempt German soldiers had for their Italian allies is astounding. Like they are so surprised that they weren’t as enthusiastic dying for German lebensraum and genocidal ideas.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 23:02
|
|
|
despite Italy's shortcomings, of all the fascist leaders, benito mussolini is the only one still alive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA8Uav7EPlQ
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 23:04
|
|
|
The italians dunked their own dictator though right? They get some cred for thatquote:On 25 April 1945, Allied troops were advancing into northern Italy, and the collapse of the Salò Republic was imminent. Mussolini and his mistress Clara Petacci set out for Switzerland, intending to board a plane and escape to Spain.[183] Two days later on 27 April, they were stopped near the village of Dongo (Lake Como) by communist partisans named Valerio and Bellini and identified by the Political Commissar of the partisans' 52nd Garibaldi Brigade, Urbano Lazzaro. During this time, Petacci's brother posed as a Spanish consul.[184] After several unsuccessful attempts to take them to Como they were brought to Mezzegra. They spent their last night in the house of the De Maria family.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2020 23:10
|
|
|
Am I right in remembering that the hardest fighting Italian partisans, the ones that did the most work, were mostly communists and got pretty badly hosed with by the CIA after the war? Not as bad as Greece of course.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 00:12
|
|
|
Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Am I right in remembering that the hardest fighting Italian partisans, the ones that did the most work, were mostly communists and got pretty badly hosed with by the CIA after the war? Not as bad as Greece of course. That could be any country's communists
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 00:20
|
|
|
thekeeshman posted:Re Italian incompetence: not really the italians had about 3 times the troops the french had on the border (which wasn't enough for the situation) and the french suffered 3 digit casualties. and in the usual mussolini style he didn't listen to his generals and invaded with unprepared and undersupplied troops against well prepared and properly supplied troops on mountains. but mussolini's plan wasn't to wage proper war, but to get enough casualties on his side to look like that he had also fought, so that he could sit at the table when the spoils were divided. most of italy's merchant fleet was at the time outside italian controlled ports, so he lost them too Grape posted:Also be way way less racist than the Germans and some of the smaller Fash countries, so that it was an open secret among Jews and other targeted groups to haul rear end to Italian occupation zones instead of sit around in German ones. yeah, the italian style of fascism wasn't built around antisemitism, and the italian jews were so well integrated that some of them were also fascists. Milo and POTUS posted:Man they weren't even good at what fascists are known for. Just embarrassing all around even though they genocided hundreds of thousands of people, they still genocided fewer people than the brits did during the war. Falukorv posted:Mussolini only has himself to blame but to Italy as a whole Germany really was a lovely ally, and once Italy turned, hoo boy the Germans did not take that well. the holocaust in italy started immediately after the germans installed the new puppet regime in the northern italy Zzulu posted:The italians dunked their own dictator though right? They get some cred for that yeah Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Am I right in remembering that the hardest fighting Italian partisans, the ones that did the most work, were mostly communists and got pretty badly hosed with by the CIA after the war? Not as bad as Greece of course. the western powers loved the former italian fascists. no one was tried for the african genocides, and the few sentences italians got for their balkan genocides were overturned about immediately
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 00:41
|
|
|
Even the Ustashi, arguably the nastiest fascists of all the parties (thankfully weak and small all things considered) weren't hugely interested in anti-semitism. Some of the leaders even had Jewish wives. They still killed a bunch of Jews, but mostly out of obligation (these were monstrous guys so it's not like they were exactly reluctant to do it either). They maybe even saw it as a distraction from their true passion. Killing the hell out of Serbs. Fun Fact: The proud runners of the ONLY non-German death camp. Jasenovac. Of course this reflects badly on Italy because Mussolini's people were supporters of putting them in charge of Croatia mostly I think for religious reasons (good Catholics!), also because they were able to get land concessions out of them for old Venetian territory along the Adriatic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 01:13
|
|
|
Grape posted:Fun Fact: The proud runners of the ONLY non-German death camp. Jasenovac. And the only concentration camp specifically for children!
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 01:32
|
|
|
e: hot take
corn haver fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jul 24, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 01:45
|
|
|
Shattered Sword is all about details and the dude even mentions how flammable all the paperwork was. It's a very detail oriented bookquote:WW II–era warships were marvelously flammable. Anyone who has been on board a ship of that vintage will have noticed that one of the prevalent odors present is that of petroleum distillates, in the form of lubricants, solvents, gasoline, and thousands of tons of fuel oil. Added to this, of course, was ammunition for the ship’s guns, which was stored primarily in the magazines, but smaller quantities of which were kept in ready storage lockers near the guns for quick access during an attack. In contrast to today’s warships, oil-based paints were used extensively. Wiring ways were filled with insulation that could ignite at high temperature, as could piping insulation (which in Japanese warships was often made of wood). Damage-control lockers themselves contained wood beams for shoring, and additional shoring material was usually stowed in the overheads of companionways and anywhere else sufficient space could be found. Warships were (and still are) full of paper—reports, forms, charts, manuals, and blueprints. Belowdecks, there was cotton bedding for the crew (which numbered between 1,100 and 1,700 men for each of the four carriers), as well as their clothing and personal effects. For the comfort of the men, Japanese berthing spaces often had false wooden flooring over the steel decks, with floor mats and wooden messing tables stored underneath. The galleys contained cooking oil, grains, and combustible foodstuffs. Grease deposits could be found in the stoves and ventilator ducts leading from these spaces. The sick bay stored ether and other volatile liquids. The ship’s laundry contained uniforms and rags, as well as lint deposits in the dryers and ventilators. All Japanese shipboard furniture was wooden, including chairs, tables, workbenches and so on.1 Wooden furniture made perfect sense for a country that had to import practically all its iron ore, and hence reserved steel for truly essential items. The net result is that warships of the day burned easily and well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 02:52
|
|
|
world war two smelled something AWFUL
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 03:53
|
|
|
Re: flammable ships—the decks of many WWII era aircraft carriers were made of wood, which meant it was super easy to set them on fire
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 04:03
|
|
|
Surprised that “critically injured in Italy and they wrote an M on his forehead with his own blood to indicate he’d been given morphine” Bob Dole, and “shot down in France, escaped into Spain, later shot down a German jet” Chuck Yeager are still with us. Was interesting how while I’m sure there were exceptions, was our last war where the rich and famous didn’t all try to evade service. All four of FDR’s sons were in real roles, JFK’s older brother died attacking a V2 site, even golf champ Bobby Jones refused to play exhibition games and went into the Air Force.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 04:04
|
|
|
Hyrax Attack! posted:Surprised that “critically injured in Italy and they wrote an M on his forehead with his own blood to indicate he’d been given morphine” Bob Dole, and “shot down in France, escaped into Spain, later shot down a German jet” Chuck Yeager are still with us. turns out the last true american hero to be tortured in a prison camp was John McCain. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 04:10
|
|
|
Hyrax Attack! posted:Surprised that “critically injured in Italy and they wrote an M on his forehead with his own blood to indicate he’d been given morphine” Bob Dole, and “shot down in France, escaped into Spain, later shot down a German jet” Chuck Yeager are still with us. The sons of the rich and powerful absolutely evaded service in WW2
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 04:14
|
|
|
I'm just saying read "The Good War" there was very much this idea that if you served frontline you were a sucker. A lot of people tried to escape the worst of the draft in ways that would get them into a good spot away from combat, or at least in training for a long time by which the war would hopefully be over. Going into the Army, especially, was the last resort.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 04:18
|
|
|
Here's an interview with Audie Murphy's sister https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PCnRg7HXV0&t=4s
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 04:19
|
|
|
People signed up immediately after Pearl Harbor in a flood of patriotism but after that there was a sense that the war sucks and the war was bullshit and all you had left were draftees and overly enthusiastic high schoolers
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 04:20
|
|
|
The big problem in WW2 is that after December of 41 our entire war making effort went towards fighting the Nazis and your average American wondered... why?? Nobody knew exactly how awful they were and no matter how much propaganda you slathered on the American people they just didn't respond that much. Japanese they hated. Like really really loving hated. Like racialized virulent evil sort of hatred. Americans legitimately wanted to kill Japanese soldiers and civilians, Germans they killed because they were told to.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 04:28
|
|
|
Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:The big problem in WW2 is that after December of 41 our entire war making effort went towards fighting the Nazis and your average American wondered... why?? Nobody knew exactly how awful they were and no matter how much propaganda you slathered on the American people they just didn't respond that much. Japanese they hated. Like really really loving hated. Like racialized virulent evil sort of hatred. Americans legitimately wanted to kill Japanese soldiers and civilians, Germans they killed because they were told to. i bet the Japanese did nazi that coming.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 04:37
|
|
|
Strumpie posted:i bet the Japanese did nazi that coming. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-511
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 04:42
|
|
|
A story that I heard both from my dad and one of my profs in university was that at the university, the person both of them took modern European history from, so from basically French Revolution to WW2, was a former Polish resistance fighter. He has been in the Polish Army, but had managed to escape purges by both German and Soviets. He and his wife where in Warsaw when the uprising happened. He, like most of of the rest of the resistance, thought "the soviets will come and help us!" but it dawned on him earlier than most that the Soviets had no intention on helping the Pols liberate their own capital. So he and his wife snuck out of the city though the sewers and managed to get to the coast and found a boat which they were able to take to Sweden. From there they made their way to Canada after the war was over and you could move around a bit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 08:00
|
|
|
Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I'm just saying read "The Good War" there was very much this idea that if you served frontline you were a sucker. A lot of people tried to escape the worst of the draft in ways that would get them into a good spot away from combat, or at least in training for a long time by which the war would hopefully be over. Going into the Army, especially, was the last resort. and only the people who scored the lowest points were trained as riflemen
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2020 12:09
|
|
|
The words are never used in Shattered Sword but as far as I can tell the Japanese attack on Midway, as planned, was a bite and hold maneuver. The problem is that the Kido Butai couldn't deliver ordnance on target, it never could. It was a raiding force, not a bombarding force. So the whole thing was loving stupid from the get go
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2020 03:36
|
|
|
Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:The words are never used in Shattered Sword but as far as I can tell the Japanese attack on Midway, as planned, was a bite and hold maneuver. The problem is that the Kido Butai couldn't deliver ordnance on target, it never could. It was a raiding force, not a bombarding force. So the whole thing was loving stupid from the get go the Kido Butai? that's what Goku used to kill Frieza, isn't it?
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2020 03:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 02:52 |
|
|
Strumpie posted:the Kido Butai? that's what Goku used to kill Frieza, isn't it? It's actually a shining, mythical sword that stands upright in the ocean, point first, unmoved by wind and wave. If an adventurer sails by and grabs its hilt they are immediately consumed by an impossible to extinguish gasoline fire.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2020 04:14
|
|