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Lots of people got murdered between 1939-1945, how about that? WW2 was like 104 different small wars. Like Australians killed Syrians, and that was weird. People traveled for weeks on boats, just to kill other people. The best flying boat was the Kawanishi H8K.
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Jul 17, 2020 06:14
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. Takasu’s Aleutians Screening Force, centered on BatDiv 2, was perhaps a more appropriate target for this criticism. With the four oldest battleships in the Japanese inventory “covering” the two misfit carriers of Dai-ni Kidō Butai, Takasu’s force could not by itself provide a credible threat to any American carrier task force that somehow ranged into northern waters. Nor, with a top speed of around twenty-four knots, could it run away quickly enough to save itself should the wolf show up at its own doorstep. Had he encountered American carriers, Takasu would have suffered the same fate as the Pearl Harbor battleships, the only difference being the greater depth and lower ambient temperature of their respective watery graves
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Jul 17, 2020 06:25
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EVERY TIME GOING posted:Shinji get in the Kaiten, we got some pedaling to do!  Wikipedia posted:Men were to be armed with a Type-5 attack mine containing 15 kg (33 lb) of explosives, fitted to a 5 m (16 ft) bamboo pole. While concealed underwater, men, expecting to be killed by the resulting explosion, would use the pole to push the contact-fuzed explosive against the hull of a landing craft passing overhead. Off each potential invasion beach, an inventory of mines was anchored to the bottom for use by the submerged men. Three strings of mines were fifty meters apart, and men would be stationed sixty meters apart, staggered so there would be a man for each 20-meter length of beach.[2]
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Jul 17, 2020 18:43
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buglord posted:WW2 Week by Week by Indie Neidell is a gently caress this guy. I enjoyed his videos for a while. I didn't watch them religiously but found the ones I saw to be reasonably evenhanded and well put together. His episode on Prince Paul of Yugoslavia was straight bullshit British propaganda. He said that Yugoslavia's signing of the Tripartite Pact was going to allow German troops to move through the country, when they were very specifically forbidden from doing that by the agreement. He also presented the removal of Prince Paul from power as an entirely organic uprising and failed to mention British involvement. The UK was loving evil as hell in WW2 and listening to people defend them or Churchill is nauseating.
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Jul 17, 2020 19:52
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LordArgh posted:the ingersoll served in the pacific theater and would therefore not have been shooting at nazis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsun_Gruppe
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Jul 17, 2020 20:36
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buglord posted:Maybe reach out to him on it? He seems to genuinely want to do better and redoes episodes if he thinks he did a poor job of explaining something. It could be malice but he’s one of the few folks I’d give the benefit of the doubt to. This isn't a small omission or me being pedantic about some stupid detail. It's a huge glaring error. He treats Yugoslavia signing the Pact as Yugoslavia fully and completely joining the Axis with everything that entails. In reality the whole thing was mostly symbolic. Getting Hitler to agree to respect Yugoslav sovereignty, that German troops would not be allowed to move across Yugoslav territory, and that Yugoslavia would not have to do anything militarily to help Germany were HUGE concessions. The guy not only has a special video about Prince Paul where he unequivocally states that after the signing of the Pact that German troops were going to invade Greece through Yugoslavia he repeats the same lie in one of his regular weekly videos and even has a special video just about the coup that removed Prince Paul from power where he declares the British had no involvement. It's a very traditional British propaganda view. It's some slimy poo poo.
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Jul 17, 2020 21:15
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Fojar38 posted:Nazi Germany is well known for respecting its treaty obligations Before agreeing to join the Axis Prince Paul begged the British and Americans for guarantees or any kind of help and got none. He wanted to protect Yugoslavians. As a human being he was probably an rear end because he was born royalty and his life was all about being rich and loving England and pretty things, and he probably was pretty anti-communist in his heart, but he wasn't a fascist. I'm sad about what happened to the people of Yugoslavia and I do blame the British for a lot of it.
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Jul 18, 2020 02:09
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First phase of learning about Nazi Germany: "Nazis were brutal efficient conquerors who briefly ruled a large portion of Europe due to their technological prowess and relentless planning." Second phase of learning about Nazi Germany: "Actually all the Nazis were hosed up stupid drug addicts who ran a fundamentally dysfunctional economic and political system into the ground and never did anything that wasn't a giant shambolic mess. They're funny, not scary." Third phase of learning about Nazi Germany: "Oh the giant clown car that is Nazi internal politics lost the war, and they were always going to lose the war, but they still managed to kill millions of innocent humans. That's sad."
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Jul 19, 2020 04:35
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quote:A song, sung to the tune of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic," turned up at Bataan:
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Jul 19, 2020 15:08
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Grape posted:I did a big rear end undergrad paper on Nazi quislings in Eastern Europe, and from what I recall Teriyaki has it right here. Also Prince Paul and his government were conferencing with British and American officials right up to signing the Pact begging them for some kind of plan or guarantee or something other than just throwing Yugoslavia on the loving fire like what happened with Poland. They got nothing. He literally said to the American ambassador quote:You big nations are hard. You talk of honor, but you are far away. I know a lot more and have a lot more opinions about WW2 than just Yugoslav politics of 1941. I'm currently rereading Shattered Sword for the second time and goddamn it's so good
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Jul 20, 2020 03:47
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Grevling posted:It's hosed up when you're from a country the Nazis invaded and occupied and read about the extent of collaboration. It was more common than you'd think! One of the simplest ways was just letting the Nazis hire you to build stuff for them. Local police also helped them round up Jews. One guy from my hometown who ran a shop before I was born had actually fought for the Nazis on the eastern front. Are you in The Netherlands? They were really up there when it came to collaboration.
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Jul 20, 2020 04:50
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:It would probably depend on the circumstances If you sank the submarine after loving up the operation of an experimental toilet, all deaths are preferable.
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Jul 22, 2020 02:24
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buglord posted:Was there any point during WW2 where the Nazis and UK could have settled for peace if the evacuation of Dunkirk failed? Was there a point in time where Nazi Germany was closest to winning the war in the west? No, never. No. Not with that political climate, not with the war as it was. Counterfactuals are loving stupid. Alternate history is the worst. I've read every book Turtledove ever wrote, even the obscure ones.
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Jul 22, 2020 02:28
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buglord posted:I'd like more about this. Not that I disagree with your statement or anything, but why would the political climate prevent that from happening? My impression was that Britain wanted to avoid war at all costs much like France did, and they sold out Czechoslovakia in their attempt to do so, and then when Nazi Germany declared on Poland they didn't really bother helping the Poles either. With those assumptions it seems reasonable to guess they would take an easy way out when presented. The UK wasn't actually doing that bad after Dunkirk. They had lost the best of their army in Europe and all of its equipment and in no way could they resist an invasion of the island of Britain, but that wasn't going to happen. The Navy made it impossible. They had all the people and resources of India, Canada, Australia, huge swathes of Africa, all the oil in the Middle East, a blank check from the USA, and supposedly the moral high ground. Also it wasn't a democratic society. Churchill didn't get elected PM. There was a massive blanket of propaganda and oppressive laws against dissent. Every aspect of society was systemized and militarized. A groundswell of public opinion would have had to have been giant indeed.
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Jul 22, 2020 02:54
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twistedmentat posted:I just want to point out that in Parliamentary Democracies, the public elects the PM directly, they are chosen from within the party, and whomever is in charge of the party at the time of winning the election become PM. So yes, no one elected Churchill, but people elected the party he lead. But the rest is right, there was a lot of curbing of free speech and criticism of the war and government at the time, which is often left out and its sorta made out that everyone in the UK was all stallwart and cheerie o pip pip as the bombs fell. That's all very much true and I'm not contesting it. I'm just saying that the UK has been very much lumped into the Free World and the good democracies and it's bullshit. They had a General Election in 1935 and those representatives kept power for 10 years. WWI Germany was more democratic. Even our loving CSA had an election in 1863. Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 04:19
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E: no
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Jul 22, 2020 04:29
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MakaVillian posted:The war in the Atlantic was pretty dire for the British Isles in 40 and 41 but yeah, there's no realistic way the Germans could've threatened Britain militarily. There was no way the German submarines could have cut off UK food stocks down to anything threatening their war effort and, again, popular opinion in the UK didn't matter.
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Jul 22, 2020 05:29
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The main thing to understand is that even at the worst time immediately post Dunkirk the British Empire was not the underdog. It never was. Never. Ever. Ever. The Third Reich was not a juggernaut.
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Jul 22, 2020 05:57
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Fojar38 posted:It's really weird how much you hate the UK even in the context of the British fighting literal Nazis All I said in the post you quoted was that the British Empire was not the underdog. I don't believe being the underdog conveys any kind of innate moral authority. Also my human brain has the capability to hate more than one thing at a time. It's not a zero sum situation where turning up the "hate British Empire" dial somehow decreases the "hate Nazis" indicator.
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Jul 22, 2020 10:38
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PTSDeedly Do posted:the war was extremely huge and fighting was everywhere https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gabon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Thai_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_weather_war https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_River_Plate
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Jul 22, 2020 18:03
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Stanley Tucheetos posted:The only thing the Italians did halfway right was their naval communications. The allies didn't completely break their codes. The Germans ruined that by eventually forcing them to use their unbreakable system that was already completely broken. E: no Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 04:34
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Am I right in remembering that the hardest fighting Italian partisans, the ones that did the most work, were mostly communists and got pretty badly hosed with by the CIA after the war? Not as bad as Greece of course.
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Jul 24, 2020 00:12
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Grape posted:Fun Fact: The proud runners of the ONLY non-German death camp. Jasenovac. And the only concentration camp specifically for children!
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Jul 24, 2020 01:32
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Shattered Sword is all about details and the dude even mentions how flammable all the paperwork was. It's a very detail oriented bookquote:WW II–era warships were marvelously flammable. Anyone who has been on board a ship of that vintage will have noticed that one of the prevalent odors present is that of petroleum distillates, in the form of lubricants, solvents, gasoline, and thousands of tons of fuel oil. Added to this, of course, was ammunition for the ship’s guns, which was stored primarily in the magazines, but smaller quantities of which were kept in ready storage lockers near the guns for quick access during an attack. In contrast to today’s warships, oil-based paints were used extensively. Wiring ways were filled with insulation that could ignite at high temperature, as could piping insulation (which in Japanese warships was often made of wood). Damage-control lockers themselves contained wood beams for shoring, and additional shoring material was usually stowed in the overheads of companionways and anywhere else sufficient space could be found. Warships were (and still are) full of paper—reports, forms, charts, manuals, and blueprints. Belowdecks, there was cotton bedding for the crew (which numbered between 1,100 and 1,700 men for each of the four carriers), as well as their clothing and personal effects. For the comfort of the men, Japanese berthing spaces often had false wooden flooring over the steel decks, with floor mats and wooden messing tables stored underneath. The galleys contained cooking oil, grains, and combustible foodstuffs. Grease deposits could be found in the stoves and ventilator ducts leading from these spaces. The sick bay stored ether and other volatile liquids. The ship’s laundry contained uniforms and rags, as well as lint deposits in the dryers and ventilators. All Japanese shipboard furniture was wooden, including chairs, tables, workbenches and so on.1 Wooden furniture made perfect sense for a country that had to import practically all its iron ore, and hence reserved steel for truly essential items. The net result is that warships of the day burned easily and well.
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Jul 24, 2020 02:52
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Surprised that “critically injured in Italy and they wrote an M on his forehead with his own blood to indicate he’d been given morphine” Bob Dole, and “shot down in France, escaped into Spain, later shot down a German jet” Chuck Yeager are still with us. The sons of the rich and powerful absolutely evaded service in WW2
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Jul 24, 2020 04:14
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I'm just saying read "The Good War" there was very much this idea that if you served frontline you were a sucker. A lot of people tried to escape the worst of the draft in ways that would get them into a good spot away from combat, or at least in training for a long time by which the war would hopefully be over. Going into the Army, especially, was the last resort.
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Jul 24, 2020 04:18
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People signed up immediately after Pearl Harbor in a flood of patriotism but after that there was a sense that the war sucks and the war was bullshit and all you had left were draftees and overly enthusiastic high schoolers
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Jul 24, 2020 04:20
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The big problem in WW2 is that after December of 41 our entire war making effort went towards fighting the Nazis and your average American wondered... why?? Nobody knew exactly how awful they were and no matter how much propaganda you slathered on the American people they just didn't respond that much. Japanese they hated. Like really really loving hated. Like racialized virulent evil sort of hatred. Americans legitimately wanted to kill Japanese soldiers and civilians, Germans they killed because they were told to.
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Jul 24, 2020 04:28
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Strumpie posted:i bet the Japanese did nazi that coming. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-511
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Jul 24, 2020 04:42
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The words are never used in Shattered Sword but as far as I can tell the Japanese attack on Midway, as planned, was a bite and hold maneuver. The problem is that the Kido Butai couldn't deliver ordnance on target, it never could. It was a raiding force, not a bombarding force. So the whole thing was loving stupid from the get go
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Jul 25, 2020 03:36
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Strumpie posted:the Kido Butai? that's what Goku used to kill Frieza, isn't it? It's actually a shining, mythical sword that stands upright in the ocean, point first, unmoved by wind and wave. If an adventurer sails by and grabs its hilt they are immediately consumed by an impossible to extinguish gasoline fire.
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Jul 25, 2020 04:14
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twistedmentat posted:I read a real good book on the fall of Berlin and it was by the same guy who wrote Enemy at the Gates, and that other scene in Downfall where the kid finds all the civilian hung is based on the fact during the Battle of Berlin, the Nazis still devouted manpower to punishing political enemies, in this case civilians that refused to go die to the advancing soviets. You know, rather than going out and fighting them. God they were stupid, its amazing that their ideology is still popular with people today. They're all weirdo losers who want to blame women on why they can't be laid, but its kept alive. I assume you're talking about Beevor's Berlin book not Enemy at the Gates. I like the part at the beginning where he's talking about daily life in Berlin after years of war and continuous bombing.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:38
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buglord posted:Books/media on Churchill you’d recommend? Stuff I find online is either valiantly defending him or attacking him because the person has an axe to grind. Looks like he was a legitimately awful dude but it’s hard to find reputable looking information on him. Churchill's Secret War is absolutely reputable. It's honest, thoroughly researched, and is non polemical.
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Jul 28, 2020 18:29
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Churchill had the advantage because he literally wrote the history of his reign, and it wasn't just some memoir by a crank general.
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Jul 29, 2020 06:21
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Lil Peeler posted:Do you think after boomers die off the market for world war II dramas is going to tank? I hope so. The baby boomers have mythologized WW2 to the extent where its become parody and the actual study of what happened can only be advanced by all of them being loving dead
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Jul 29, 2020 06:23
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