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CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Epoxy Bulletin posted:

Anything over 250 is already technically a scooter here, so I figure in for a yenny in for a pound :japan:
:ssh: Ebikes in places without strict regulation advertise peak power consumption instead of nominal power output :ssh:

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CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Look at the Strava heat map and see which roads are more traveled by other cyclists. It can be a good hint about what routes are preferable.

https://www.strava.com/heatmap#7.00/-120.90000/38.36000/hot/all

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

My Thursday:




https://youtu.be/V9wPNbxL_W4

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

stephenthinkpad posted:

Is That a geared hub motor or a direct drive motor? I hope your phone is okay at the end of the video?
Direct drive. I managed to avoid breaking anything expensive.

I had a twist throttle that came apart when I leaned back. Turn out hall effect throttles stick at half power when you take away the magnets.

For some context, I've been working through some ideas for getting a cargo Carla knockoff built with some custom dimensions. I already have access to a bikes-at-work trailer, so I just bolted the front end to that to work out kinks before getting some help fabricating the frame.

I still need to figure out the surge brakes and a failsafe to kill the throttle if anything fucks up. Just a brake cable attached directly to a telescoping pull bar does not offer enough mechanical advantage.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012


It actually handled pretty well on level ground.

Buuuut without any input dampening on the throttle, going uphill was like pulling a 100lb yoyo.
https://youtu.be/ULlNrZ3wYs0

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

stephenthinkpad posted:

Are you powering the eChariot with a generator?
Only in the sense that every electric motor is also a generator.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Epoxy Bulletin posted:

My bike came, and I've been rambling around with it a few weeks now. The stock headlight is pretty dinky, 100 lumens definitely won't cut it for me. I'd like to get a replacement that also fits on the fender mount and wires into the battery, is there anything I should know or look out for when shopping for lights? I could make things simple and strap on a handlebar mounted one, but I want to keep the bars clear if I can, plus the wired connection works off the controller which has a sensor or something that clicks it on automatically, which I like.
Do you have a 6-12v output for lights or do you need something that runs off of full battery voltage?

I like the dynamo version of the B&M IQ-X and they make an ebike version. If that is too expensive it is worth taking a look at Axa.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Cugel the Clever posted:

Write your congresspeople to include ebikes in any electric vehicle subsidy, folks. If we're actually committed to fighting climate change by electrifying transportation for the average person, a $1500 electric bike discounted to $750 is going to be vastly more accessible to the broader public than a $30k automobile discounted to $25k (to say nothing of more environmentally-friendly). Would also expand the constituency for bike infrastructure.

I've been tempted to get the Rad Runner Plus since they announced it as I've fallen for the advertising
First part, strong agree.

Second part: I really recommend test riding a bike with torque sensing before settling on a bike with on/off PAS.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Bolts fell out, sheared off, or some of both?

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

kimbo305 posted:

If you can swing the difference, you absolutely should.
Rad-power is essentially a DIY ebike with some waterproof connectors that you don't have to put together yourself.

E: and a few proprietary bits for good measure.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

I want to both defend suntour forks for not being that bad, while also being criticizing any company who chooses suspension for a cargo bike when 2.5" tires are better for most non mountain biking needs.


I think I have an XCR on my mountain bike. It's about as good as I can imagine a single chamber air spring being.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

More things to note:
Geared motors tend to be much lighter than direct drive for equivilent torque.
The gearing does cause the motors to make a little more noise.
Geared motors are less good at shedding heat than direct drive, so people hot rodding their bikes will have their nylon gears fail.
Clutched gear motors don't contribute to any drag on the bike when unpowered.
I know of one gear motor (GMAC) that does not have a clutch. I would seriously consider one of those for a cargo bike.


Once again it is worth emphasizing that direct drive motors are heavy. They tend to perform better at speed than low end torque.


Every motor will have some trade offs. Unlike a mid drive where you can just shift gears, hub motors have to be built for speed or torque or somewhere in between. Direct drive motors tend to be specced with an rpm/volt rating or by number of turns of wire on the stators. Lower number of turns generally means higher top speed, but less efficient low end torque but you can really only do a side by side comparison of motors that are otherwise physically the same.

Geared motors generally hint at their torque and top speed by gear reduction ratio. More gear reduction means slower, but more torque. There is a gear motor that has high and low speed gearing that is selected by running the motor forwards or backwards.

Sorry that my post isn't one you can just copy and paste into the OP without more context.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Without confirmation that says otherwise you should assume the worst that the batteries are just wired in parallel.

To make sure bad things don't happen you will need batteries with the charge circuitry on the BMS sharing the output connector. Otherwise if you hook up batteries with different level of charge there will be no limit to the current flowing into the battery at lower voltage.

E: for a very rough explanation power mosfets can only block current in one direction. Most batteries use one set of connectors that control output current and one set of connectors to control input current. These circuits can be set up in series, but there is power loss when running mosfets backwards so most don't do this.

CopperHound fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Dec 4, 2020

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

bawfuls posted:

For long term battery health wouldn't it be better to wire two batteries in true parallel and draw them down/charge them up together all the time? This cut's the discharge rate in half on a given battery, and keeps you from cycling one battery more than the other over time from shorter trips. Of course you need a BMS that can handle this arrangement.
Short answer yes, but to do this the BMS needs to be able to disapate an extra [~0.6v*current] of power without cooking itself to death.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

loaf posted:

Any recommendations for a simple hub motor setup with drop bars? I ride a Long Haul Trucker 10-20 miles a few times a week and want to go faster/farther without adding too much weight or making it too prone to theft.

I'm thinking I could start with a 36V or 48V front hub with a thumb throttle and maybe add a torque sensing bottom bracket (and/or bigger motor) later. It's mostly flat around East Bay and I rarely go off road but it'd be nice to boost up 8% hills occasionally.

There's also an e-bike shop nearby that sells this complete bike with a 36V/8.7AH battery and 350W rear hub with a torque sensor for $1200: https://www.pacificebike.net/product-page/artemis
That bike woudn't be a replacement for a long haul trucker, but to be honest you probably would be spending close to that (if not more) putting together an ebike kit with torque sensing.

And before you get any ideas: that torque sensor is integrated into the frame, so it wouldn't be a simple move everything over if you don't like the bike.

e: lol headshock

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

Is there a typical connector I can just get in the length I need?
Here is good information on various connectors: https://ebikes.ca/learn/connectors.html

Keep the anderson connector. If you just want to hook them up as easily as possible, buy this https://ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/wiring/battcable12.html and some bullet connectors from an autoparts store.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

I revisited the electric trailer project I was working on earlier. Before I was having a problem getty smooth power output, but I have found a solution by using an old suspension fork with no spring (but still damping) actuate a throttle on the pull bar. One half of the travel increases assist power and the other half of the travel actuates proportional braking.

Despite how janky the front end is attached, I decided to take it out on my routes yesterday and it worked fantastic! Up to a load of about 200lbs it was like not even pulling anything. I ended up loading it up over 350lbs without too much effort, but my poor little 16" tires could not handle much more weight. I'm quite upset about 16" big apples and hook worms being discontinued.



I plan on getting a less janky platform built now that I feel more confident with the e-assist. Also gotta add some safety cutoff, maybe like a jet ski kill switch.

evil_bunnY posted:

Man the Tern GSD v2 looks like such a great bike.
Comes with a good kickstand now?

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Safety Dance posted:

What do you haul?
Kitchen scraps for compost

and sometimes some less successful attempts at other stuff:

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Test ride something with and without good power sensing, so you can see what you're missing out on with most conversion kits. Make sure you to try some low speed menuvers.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

frogbs posted:

Also, possibly dumb question. Are there 'pedal assist' only kits out there? I'd be fine with just having a little boost when pedaling, vs. a whole throttle system, etc. If there's no cosst savings I guess it doesn't matter, but thought i'd ask.
Yes, but it is no cost savings beyond just the cost of a $10 throttle. If not using a throttle appeals to you, you should probably lean more towards the TSDZ2. Torque sensing feels so much better than cadence based pas.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Kidney Stone posted:

So it wouldn't just limit the power of the motor?
Usually it does just limit the power, but other times that rating is just whatever their MOSFETs can handle without burning out.

I would trust anything from ebikes.ca to limit the power, but amazon or ali express? :shrug:

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

evil_bunnY posted:

An e-bike hambini would own
I found my calling in life. I just need to get people to send me their bikes so I can poo poo on them.

I can see most of my reviews saying something like:
"If you take of the 'e' from this e-bike you got an absolute shite bike underneath"


I should have made a recording when I fixed a rad bike that had bearings poo poo the bed in less than 150 miles. I had to unlace the rim to open the hub.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Cicero posted:

Their most expensive recommended regular e-bike is $2,400, their least expensive recommended mountain e-bike is $4,800. Is that weird? It seems weird to me, that the extra components needed for a mountain bike would make an e-bike cost 2 or 3 grand more.
No. Look at the price difference between a decent full suspension mountain bike and a budget town bike. Then look at the difference in price between a mid-drive ebike with torque sensing vs a basic cadence based assist hub motor bike. Add those differences together and the prices make sense.

Cost cutting on a full suspension bike is a recipe for disappointment. You can get away with primitive pedal assist on the road, but it would be unacceptable on any sort of technical terrain.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

I've made some more progress on this e-trailer project
After spending countless hours making drawings, I got together with this dude to help me build the project (https://www.instagram.com/francescycles/)

finished frame:

Brake cable and throttle stuff. The fork is gutted just to be used as a linear bearing:

Still need to do some cable management


I'm going to take this thing for it's maiden voyage at work today. If you don't hear back, you can assume the worst.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Safety Dance posted:

RIP Copperhound, launched off a cliff by poorly tuned bike trailer PID values
RIP me:

Nobody to blame but myself.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Nessus posted:

Do Rad Power have a really bad warranty process or is it more "since the components may be budget, you're more likely to have to deal with it"
Not great quality control, but they seem to be good about sending replacement parts out to first hand customers.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Safety Dance posted:

In reality, I think this is awesome. How's it feel?
My benchmark for good e-assist is not even noticing it is there until you go without it. It worked out pretty good picking up 285lbs of trash without anything particularly sketchy happening, but it isn't quite where I want it.

This gutted fork compressing pulls the brake cables and extending pulls the throttle:

There are a couple problems with this setup:
-Under heavy braking the trailer still pushes pretty hard. There should be more mechanical advantage for the brake cables, so I might try using a couple travel agents.
-The spring of the brakes themselves pushes to extend the fork slightly, so often the linkage finds a resting spot that applies throttle slightly. On flat ground the empty trailer will push enough to keep me at a jogging pace without pedaling.
-The brakes actually stop me from pushing the trailer backwards :v:
-I really should use a linear position sensor for the throttle, because having a cable pull a thumb throttle is some Rube Goldberg poo poo.

There is one more problem that I probably need to use a micro controller to solve:
-When stopped on an incline, the motor will just sit there stalled with power running thru it. I think I want to cut the throttle if the wheel isn't turning for some small amount of time.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Some places, such as Henry Coe state park, specificaly only allow class 1* ebikes.

*Most people do not have class one ebikes in the US.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

The fact that they don't sell any spare parts is a good hint about the level of support you can expect.

The said, there is a real person publicly behind the company: Daniel Basaldua

That is more than a lot of drop shippers will claim.

CopperHound fucked around with this message at 20:16 on May 29, 2021

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

learnincurve posted:

60 mile range on a bike that expensive means they either cheaped out on the battery or the bike is hewn from iron.
This is the most pointless critique of a bike that weighs 20 lbs less than a rad power.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Found this pic on the internet. Looks like you might need a seat clamp adapter to mount a normal style sturdy rack:


The stock rack will only carry bags on the sides.

e: The stock rack looks like it doubles as a fender stay, so I'm not sure how floppy things are without it.

CopperHound fucked around with this message at 22:18 on May 31, 2021

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

More e-trailer progress featuring improved safety:

I added an emergency stop switch to pull the throttle down to 0v along with a simple on/off:

Also made the drum brake arms longer for more mechanical advantage:

I also changed out the old ebike throttle to an automotive throttle position sensor.


Todo:
Implement an intuitive reverse button or a brake lockout because pushing a trailer with surge brakes backwards is hard.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

ColonelMoutard posted:

Just endless sphere forum, where all electrical questions are answered
There is a ton of good technical information on that forum, but I have to remain dubious about what those forum regulars consider an appropriate amount of power for an ebike.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Charles posted:

And I see discussion of Rad Power Bikes here on this page, how are they able to be so much cheaper than other brands but they say Panasonic or Samsung cells?
I don't have the energy to effort post, but if you had the chance to test ride the difference will become more clear.

I'd put rad power bikes at the more reputable end of the cheap bikes, but still on a completely different level from a seamless torque sensing setup.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012


I don't see any room to slap a 18650 based battery pack in here. Any attempt to use up the available space would need to be some custom engineered lipo packs if not an entire redesign of the bike itself.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Walked posted:

Want something that will primarily be used throttle-only (have a bunch of real bikes for when I want to scratch that itch)
Have you at least entertained the idea of an electric motorcycle instead?

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Epoxy Bulletin posted:

The hex bolt holding my left crank on keeps loosening itself as I ride,
Is the crank arm itself loosening? If so, it is ruined and also needs to be replaced.

e: to answer your question those bolts are functionally the same. Any bike shops should have some floating around for cheap/free.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Yep, your crank arm is hosed. As soon as it starts coming loose like that it will never stay tight because the square taper interface is knackered.

Most common cause is it just not being tight enough in the first place.

If you get a replacement note:
-left vs right
-length (usually stamped inside 165, 170, or 175)
-orientation of the square hole. Some are 45° off of what you need.

CopperHound fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Sep 2, 2021

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

First. Take the bolt out. Ideally you'll see something like this:

Note that the spindle is recessed into the square hole a little. This is a press fit interface that ideally should be able to stay on without the bolt even there. If you have already tightened the crank several times you might see something like this. Note that no matter how much you tighten the bolt it will not push the crank further in:


Now if you can pull the crank arm off with your hand (which alone should be enough of a sign that it is hosed because that would be a loose fit not a press fit) take a look inside the crank hole. If the flat edges aren't flat or you see an edge going across the flat section, it is ruined. Here is an example of a bad one.

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CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Queadlunn posted:

Found this battery pack, wondered if anyone's used or head of one of these?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154188690928
That looks like a pouch based instead of 18650 battery pack. That means you need extra mechanical protection to make sure an accident doesn't cause an uncontrolled release of a bit less than 1million Jules of energy.

CopperHound fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Sep 27, 2021

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