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Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

YES bread posted:

weep, you catgirls
my trusts have given you up
I now run dungeons with chuuni catboys
goodbye, wondrous femininity!

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Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Yeah I really couldn't care less at this juncture. Maybe the third raid will go off the rails to a crazy extent and salvage it all but it's pretty boring in a narrative sense so far.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Waffleman_ posted:

No, I think it matches your WoL.

It does.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

I'm confused by the resurgence of people saying we arent actually connected to Azem at all...Wasn't that basically confirmed already?

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Oh yeah, obviously we aren't literally Azem but people seem to like deny any connection at all which was wild to me around the net.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

The OG nier had way better gameplay than Automata because at least it didn't pretend to be a lovely character action game. It was still not good but at least wasted less of your time.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

You can just emulate the old western version at this point at least. It'll be nice to play Replicant in english for the first time.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Feel like that's been explicit for a long rear end time now, no?

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Not really. When asks why he does something he literally just shrugs and says he's tempered. That's the only thing ever said on the topic.

Nobody else when tempered has that sort of clarity without some fanatical devotion. They're entirely devoted to their primal all day every day. Emet-Selch fucks off and does his own thing routinely. He basically takes a vacation in one of the short stories. He even says he tried to forget the whole thing and live life, but the frailty and weaknesses of the mortal races crushed that idea. None of his motivations need him to be mind controlled by Zodiark to fulfill.

And he gives Azem's stone to "Hythlodaeus" to give to the WoL. Maybe a contingent mercy to help put one of his last friends to peace, but still in direct opposition to Zodiark.

Sorry, should have quoted the post since yours wasn't there when I hit submit, I meant I thought it was pretty explicit that emet wasn't mind controlled.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

The WoL had magical chosen one protagonist powers from the getgo. I don't see what the Azem reveal changes about this. You will never a nameless mudfarmer.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Cleretic posted:

My theory on Emet saying he's tempered: remember that Emet is a bastard man who doesn't care about 'lesser' beings than him. He probably doesn't really care that our definition of 'tempering' is far more total than his, and he didn't go into any detail. To him, 'being tempered' might mean 'I hear an angry voice of my god in the back of my mind but I can mostly tune it out', and he probably doesn't see the difference betweeen that and a mortal's problem of 'my entire will and personhood was subsumed by a parody of a god that until now I did not believe in'.

The brainwashing equivalent of 'I got the flu and I'm fine, so stop whining that you're in pain and can't get out of bed'.

You do realize that Emet saying all that poo poo about how he doesn't care about lesser beings wasn't like..Actually how he truly felt, right?

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Blows my mind that people are so opposed to depth or nuanced characterization that they just plug their ears and yell fascist anytime Gaius comes up.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Oh he absolutely is a fascist but there's more to him and that's why he's interesting. When people just go "hes fash end of story." and treat any examination of what makes him tic as apologia or whatever it's a huge disservice to the story.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

This is true and he is an interesting character but I still hope the story grinds him down into a tiny nub and gives him no catharsis or relief. Yeah yeah I'm sure he's sad about the adopted kids gooping themselves but no one in the plot has stopped to point out how hosed up it is he basically collected orphans who's parents he had murdered through his own military campaigns. I'm sure he's got feelings for them but like everything else this guy has ever believed in the entire thing is rotten to its absolute core and he just cannot make that final step to realizing it, much as he clings to the notion that the ideals of garlemald having anything worth holding on to. It's what makes him a compelling and tragic figure and its also why they shouldn't give him an inch.

The closest thing to a happy ending is the last kids get out alive and tell Gaius to gently caress off and they go somewhere far away from him. But this is a gundam so the big brother is going to die taking out the Legate in a suicide attack, possible fusing them both inside that core tester machine

Oh I'm not really opposed to him getting owned or anything. The way people gleefully say his kids deserve to be murdered because "no quarter for the family of fash" poo poo that comes up all the time just makes me really uncomfortable. I remember when last patch dropped multiple people were mad they couldn't bash Allie's skull in and how she "chose this life, she deserves no forgiveness" ...It's loving creepy!

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

HenryEx posted:

if you think a prison's function is to serve as punishment, there's already a lot wrong with you in the first place

what

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

No one thinks there's not something off about crystalmom, just that the game isn't going to go "actually she's evil and we need to kill her"

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

She's also a tool. If you want to go that route that she murdered everyone (I don't really agree with that framing) you're better off pinning the blame on Venat and co. She was doing exactly what she was created for, she couldn't just say "no" to fighting Zodiark or whatever.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

How many people she killed has nothing to do with her being evil or not either.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

The catboy wife is better by far.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Make the 90 capstone a button that turns you into the Estinen Nidhogg fusion form. Just let you go SSJ.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Gimmie a Gaius trust!!!!

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

I think he plenty realized what he did wrong.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Kyrosiris posted:

Oh sure, I think that's what the scene with the synthetic auracite at the end is supposed to be.

On the other hand, it's still very Gaius-centric. Other than the couple of people who were acting as essentially his wardens, there's no examination of how the formerly subjugated people of Werlyt are getting on with Literally The Black Lion showing up and being put in charge of restorations.

I think a dusting of giving a voice to the victims in that case would be beneficial to the overall plot. It doesn't have to be a lot - Fordola's narrative has just the right dashes of it applied here and there - but I think Random Werlyt Citizen 467 rubbing Gaius's nose in it would have more impact, if not to the character in the narrative than to the people observing said narrative.

Could just be my take though.

Hmmm..I don't necessarily disagree but I have trouble thinking of a way they can do it without it seeming kinda hackneyed.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

sexpig by night posted:

he did but him getting instantly accepted into the resistance felt...forced to me. Like if it was just 'wow...this was some poo poo huh, WoL? Welp, I'm gonna go back to wandering and try to sort this poo poo out' and hell even give him a 'I don't forgive you, but thank you' moment too and I'm down, but having it just instantly transition to 'and we now trust you implicitly' was a bit much.

Remember he had been paling around with that crew of his for a while, I think them giving the thumbs up to the others about him is probably good enough for most people.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

multijoe posted:

It doesn't though. The Garlean empire is a classically imperialist empire in the shape of Rome or the British empire and Zenos is just a nihilist who doesn't believe in anything past the next combat high. Neither have the characteristics that distinguish modern fascism from any other type of expansionist empire through history and it just leads to people making interminable self-righteous tracts about what good anti-fascists they are for wanting to see every Garlean launched into space or whatever

The fact that people have convinced themselves that playing this game is revolutionary praxis never ceases to astound me.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

SirSamVimes posted:

Who has claimed this?

Every single little weirdo in these threads who talk about how we should execute Hien cuz monoarchies are bad, or how Gaius' children deserved worse fates because "bash the fash"

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

It's actually been quite a while since I saw one of those posters genuinely act like that so it was stupid for me to invoke it and just made myself out to be an rear end in a top hat. Sorry.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

It was really weird since Varis never came across as an idiot to me in the limited screen time he got prior and the first bit of that scene is really good and then he goes completely off the rails but not in a way that seemed logically consistent with what we were shown before.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

YES bread posted:

most of those people find those characters sexy because they're evil. fordola is a lame flip-flopper and thats why people are awoogaing over the 9 foot tall resident evil lady instead of her

Absolutely.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

My WoL is volcel.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Cleretic posted:

Yeah, this is something that really confuses me about people begging for a death to egis and instead entirely demi-focused SMN set.

Like... you people have seen the Ifrit-Egi, right? That thing is all angles and has some rad animations, especially compared to Ifrit himself who's just a primal of future back problems.

It looks like a drat gummy bear.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Moofia Boss Val posted:

Pretty hypocritical given that G'raha Tia was trying to do the exact same thing: kill the people of the present he came from the resurrect the people of a past that he deemed better than the present. Mind as well just be honest "Nothing personal, I'm just going to kill you to save my folks".

What

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

People really reaching tonight lol

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

It was a good run but they have dug too greedily now.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Cythereal posted:

Resubbed today, started catching up on the last couple patches. Started with finishing the Weapon storyline.

To be honest, Gaius getting a happy feel-good redemption arc sits really badly with me. Bad enough he came back at all. But the fact that I feel zero sympathy for him meant the emotional weight of the finale didn't work for me. Yeah, poo poo sucks for you, dude. You knowingly walked into all of it and brought all this on yourself.

It was good, actually.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Ironslave posted:

I think the whole point of that arc is that Gaius finds himself looking into the face of himself--literally in one case, with the Emerald Weapon. Valens is doing what Gaius did, to achieve the same things Gaius wanted to do. Right down to adopting war orphans. The only difference in what they were doing is in the why, and the point Gaius ends up facing and acknowledging by the end of it is that the why of it isn't enough, and was never enough to justify or excuse it. That the children he lost are the same children lost to every war.

Gaius was a power-hungry authoritarian who outright went rogue before the empire even fell to satiate his desire for conquest under the belief and justification that only the strong should rule because only they'd have the means to protect. He saw others as future citizens and was socially egalitarian. This is largely why he can manage a redemption arc: there are understandable desires and idealistic goals twisted up by a lust for power and the rhetoric of empire. I suspect if we ever got a more in-depth explanation on why Werlyt was so willing to bring him in it'd probably be because his actions and reforms weren't outwardly malicious and in some ways may have even been decent, in the same kind of way Gabranth's were for Bozja.

Him loving Livia is really gross though.

Gaius went Rogue cuz everyone else wanted to drop a big ol rock onto Eorzea and murderize everyone, not because he was too conquest hungry.

The Livia stuff was rejected in the Weapon storyline, she wanted his love and he never gave it.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Sharkopath posted:

Instead of simply villains the Bozjan legion are people who have directly benefited from an egalitarian reform of their society that gave them advantage and opportunity they never would have gotten in the much more stratified and aristocratic social structure the empire replaced, and because of it are fiercely loyal to the new regime and as they continually lose ground are getting more and more desperate to stop what in their eyes are a blueblooded nobility intent on overthrowing it all and replacing it with the old way.

In another story they're the heroes, but it's not that story.

It's a really cool story, much more nuanced than most games would have done with the situation.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Gnossiennes posted:

yeah but the ancients were huge dipshits too tho

Not really??

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Captain Oblivious posted:

Yeah but people were classist to Misija once, so brainwashing people and permanently warping their souls is sad and sympathetic actually. Did you think about that

Truly who can say what’s right or wrong in war

The Bozja storyline is blitheringly stupid

Did you ignore like all of it or what to come to this conclusion?

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Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

drat...Can't believe that a group of people who saw their lives improve significantly under Garlean rule compared to the awful stratified society of old bozja fought tooth and nail against people trying to bring it back. Surely there's no commentary or deeper meaning to this struggle.

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