Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
I wish pubbies would realize the Prince has got short legs and slow down like, even slightly, at all, ever, just a tiny bit. I've missed ascension chests before because everyone mashes the portal the millisecond they reach it, gently caress any money left on the ground, gently caress you if you can't instantly read an entire weapon's tooltip, gently caress you if you need to spend five seconds choosing between ascensions, we need to goooooooooooooooooooooo. *Runs into the next room solo and instantly dies.*

Also of course no consistency or awareness whatsoever when it comes to when to jump into a vault.

My fault for touching the pubstove, I know, but still.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Sep 18, 2022

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
W/r/t health balance, I hate that solo everything works just fine up until Pole Monarch and then I lose near-guaranteed because breaking through his shield even on normal seems to be mathematically impossible outside of specific crazy strong combos. I'm assuming this is partly a Prince-specific problem because his kit isn't designed for direct application of DPS. And at my current skill level I can only beat phase 3 by pure luck/luck of scrolls.

Meanwhile, he pretty consistently gets chumped in my co-op runs, but then the stage 2 and 3 bosses are absolute nightmares. Serpents isn't my favorite fight to begin with, but in co-op they're nothing but noise and death. And pubbies largely have no idea what to do about Wind God, though in fairness I think that fight is designed like hot garbage to begin with so it's more understandable.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
:shrug: I can blow through the first three stages without much difficulty at this point, give or take the occasional hiccup. I tend to need to slow down a bit in Jokul, usually because of UFOs or other bad layouts turning things into a bit more of a siege, but it's otherwise NBD when I'm not pinned down. But I simply cannot seem to bring enough raw DPS to the table as Prince. Outside of Energy Blade shenanigans infinite orbs are meaningless (and suck rear end in the rest of the fight as well :/ ) and smoke grenades even when built well don't magically solve the race on their own. I've made it there with plenty of decent, if maybe not S-tier, +10 weapons, geminis that should work well, etc. but when I say it comes off as mathematically impossible I mean it.

The only two things I can think of are that I'm somehow falling outside of optimal weapon ranges without realizing it and it's massively cutting my damage (but it's not like I'm trying to snipe him with a fire dragon) or my talents simply aren't at the point where my DPS can sufficiently explode out of control, which is pretty unsatisfying if it's the case.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Evil Kit posted:

If your primary weapon is only in the low teens in levels, then yeah you kinda hosed up. Gemini inscriptions are important, but finding a really good weapon in Desert with an exclusive inscription or just the right inscriptions + the right occult scrolls is all you need. Then you just slam money into it till it's in the 20s or close to 30. 30s are the extreme though, if you somehow manage to get a weapon to that point you probably had a money machine build early enough to get a weapon that far.

If I was going to point at specific talents that really enable dumb poo poo you might not have yet, surprisingly it's the peddler and money talents. Being able to reroll peddlers helps immensely, and having way better shots at getting occult scrolls available for sale helps you snowball a lot. The money talents let you go from saving up to spend occasionally on either/or of the peddler or weaponsmith, to just slamming money into the weaponsmith and peddler whenever you can if you want to.

Well that's at least something. I think I've had weapons in the high teens at best a few times but never in the 20s that I can recall. It usually takes me a while to find a good pair that I'm happy with, sometimes not until stage 3 to get a freshly dropped 10 with the right mix of stuff to start really dumping money into. But I've also never had any kind of clear benchmark for weapon levels until now. Every guide out there gives a vague rule of thumb about them not being worth it past a certain point and to focus more on higher quality inscriptions and geminis. Is that not the case anymore?

And indeed, the money tree is one of the ones I've yet to flesh out much. I do usually find myself with a glut of copper in the mid-game, but it's rare that I'm in position where I'm ending the run with full pockets so it really does sound like a mathematical roadblock of simply not having enough resources to push everything hard enough to solve the DPS race.

Edit: Realized I could check my run log. The highest weapon I've ever had is 15, which perhaps not-so-coincidentally was the same run where I still failed the DPS race but at least was able to eke out a win on phase 3. :ms:?

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Sep 19, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Oh, and of course no ability to etch yet means I can't freely slap a gemini on early stuff I like.



A thing of beauty, left to rot. :qq:

I realize I probably should've kept it anyway.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Evil Kit posted:

I pretty much played from the start of Early Access and never actually looked at a guide, just kinda learned by feeling things out. Generally, outside of the Elemental type share and maybe the crit X sharing, Geminis are a bonus and not what you should focus on. I used to not even pay attention to them before they added the Jokul and the ability to etch a Gemini onto a gun with 4 inscriptions on it already. They just appeared so late and it was much easier to start finding an amazing gun in Desert from exclusive/rare inscriptions alone than try and hold out for a good gun that also had a Gemini you could try and roll.

This is not to say Gemini's don't matter, especially since you can play with them earlier now and you have an entire extra world to play through if you choose to go through the Jokul. I have absolutely won games because fusion status effects are very strong, and the elemental Gemini is just good.

The other thing is don't spread out your weapon level ups between guns, you're better off just focusing on one particularly busted gun with maybe a back up gun in case you run out of ammo or something, or are actually using a particular Gemini inscription combo. Any ammo issues you can shore up with scrolls, or ascensions depending on the character you play so no need to worry about gassing yourself on an ammo type late game with just one gun.

To be fair, I've been playing Prince, so my goal is almost always to find a decent elemental share combo for fire + lightning and lock it in as soon as possible. Which also dovetails nicely with pumping up the main gun and just using the other to mule a decent elemental proc. It just takes forever for geminis to start dropping naturally.

Unfortunately guides for the game are a bit all over the place. A hell of a lot of them are from various stages of early access, but it's usually easy to tell when they're woefully out of date because they'll only have half the characters or outright tell you to literally never play Prince. :v: I guess it's also possible that they're failing to differentiate solo vs. co-op strategies. You definitely don't need to crank raw weapon damage quite as high in co-op. But also like I said, outside of needing to slow down a tiny bit in Jokul, it's only Monarch phase 2 that actually stonewalls me. Nowhere else is my damage inadequate.

Evil Kit posted:

edit: also yes you totally should have picked that Sunder up, that is a loving busted rear end gun right there lol.

Wasn't a matter of picking it up, it was a matter of letting it go. We were blowing through things fast enough that the fire orbs were only performing so-so and I wanted elemental share, dangit.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Sep 19, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Count Uvula posted:

An exception is that '[element] ball on crit' scales exclusively on gun level and increases to skill damage IIRC so if you find lightning or fire ball on crit on a Aura of Venom/Cloud Weaver/Sunder it can be worth carrying that sucker all the way to the end, especially if you get goblets or scrolls that boost skill dmg since those apply to the balls.

That is...quite unintuitive.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.


Re: Weapon levels. I had been carrying a decent boomstick of a Scorcher (2x shot with a fast reload) but then this one appeared a few levels behind. The inscriptions were just too drat good to ignore given the rest of the build. Proceeded to have to scrounge and scrounge for every last bit of money to keep it on par. Could've been +12 but I forwent one last bump for Corrosion Enthusiast.



In general this is the first run where it really felt like everything clicked. A single mediocre ascension from Jokul and Bloody Ammo as my final vault scroll aside, this build was pretty drat good. And honestly with all the damage reduction I even felt somewhat confident that I could survive phase 3 if it came to it, but it didn't for the first time. :toot: Early investment into Pyrodominance was a big factor I think. I uh, I don't think I consciously understood the distinction between +Fire DMG and +Fire Elemental Proc DMG until this run. Not to say I ever utterly ignored the elemental ascensions before, but the nuance was definitely lost on me.

Also I got Crab Buffet easy peasy. :buddy:

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Sep 19, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Evil Kit posted:

Hell yeah, congrats! I would have ditched Reasonable Luck after having two+ lucky shot chance scrolls like you did myself but frankly it probably doesn't matter too much.

I don't have the passive Lucky Shot boosts yet. So unless I'm overlooking something I'd be much worse off because I'd only hit the same 150% if Lone Wolf and Ninja Discipline were maxed out, with the latter being particularly volatile given the high rate of lucky shots at that point. (And of course, a high uptime on dashing required either way.)

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Sep 19, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Oh, lol, my weapon's right up there ^

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Sep 19, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
'Sup tired and sick buddy. In fairness gun-based lucky shot chance would absolutely be something I'd brain off forget about when calculating for Reasonable Luck.

Really, really wish there was a stat tracker you could just consult with instead of needing to add up your bonuses in your head. Unless that's another thing I've missed.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Sep 19, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

explosivo posted:

Just gets old slowly walking through each level after a fight to break every box and pick everything up or god forbid go back to hit up a vendor a stage or two back.

The worst is the scroll that adds currency drops to breakables. Normally at this point I only need to break the occasional pot to top up grenades or ammo after a tough fight, but that scroll slows everything way down.

Bird feels borderline OP.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Finally unlocked the Talisman, this is the one that dropped for free:



:dudsmile:

IIRC, the lucky shot chance was the added etch. I was playing Rabbit which was not the best fit for it, but how could I say no??? Kept it in Corrosive and gemini'd it to a 50% lightning sword. Had Elemental Cube or w/e it's called to go along with it too.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
FWIW, there are mods to fix the lack of respawning and the lack of mid-run saves in RoR2. I think it has a little bit more depth/variety than people give it credit for; its itemization absolutely can have the same decision making thrill as picking between ascensions in Gunfire for instance. But it's definitely held back by a lot of issues. For one, I think the game fundamentally breaks down in casual co-op and it has a fairly rigid metagame even in solo play. Its character roster is also a mess, and the one meaningful bit of meta-progression attached to them, the alternate skills, are A) downright hair-yanking, blood-boiling frustrating to unlock and B) poorly balanced. The DLC characters are a smidge better overall.

While Gunfire has a few clunker ascensions, I'm honestly impressed at how thoroughly well designed the kits tend to be. Particularly the later characters where, at the cost of some added confusion/complexity (Monkey's weapon bonuses :argh:), they managed to tie everything together really well.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
I would say there are vanishingly few outright bad ascensions, but a fair few mediocre ones. I think it's also worth pointing out that the exact value of some of them ends up changing depending on difficulty, talents, spiritual blessings, and/or spirit links. And more granular still, it's easy to pick apart ones where tier 2 is especially limp and/or tier 3 is winmore. A lot of the +secondary charges ones have tier 3s that are hard to justify, but even Cat can do with a few extra grenades sometimes, especially absent any scrolls to help generate more.

There's also something to be said for ones with more significant dependencies (All or Nothing being an obvious example), ones that are overly fussy and complicated (like half of Turtle's, a lot of Fox's primary ability stuff), and ones that are just plain boring (+HP on Dog).

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Ah, knew there was a weird compound chance ascension somewhere that was really bugging me: Fox's Unceasing Blaze has a 50% chance to restore a use when Meteor inflicts burning...which is itself a 50% chance. Mind you, Fox doesn't necessarily need to be buffed and I'm guessing it can do some wacky poo poo if you spec into the other meteor spam stuff alongside it, but that's a good example of a wonky bit of design.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
On Nightmare and up you have to start thinking of your act 1 build (and possibly into act 2) more in terms of how you can beat the Elites or sometimes even how well you can handle a dragon chase. Piercing for Elite Horsehead and a corrosive weapon for Elite Spearman start to become essential rather than just handy to have.

Also worth noting you can just nope out of vaults at will. Non-shielded elites can even be cheesed a bit by dancing in and out as needed.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Question of my own: Who do y'all think is the best choice for the Reincarnation with no blessings cheevo? I'm thinking Bird or Turtle on account of them usually being able to reach unkillability, but it still seems like it might take some added luck from the phantom peddler and getting good bosses.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Fishstick posted:

Crown prince is very versatile so you can roll with what RNG blesses you with

I don't really see it. His lack of movement speed is a massive detriment to survival and 2/3 of his exclusive blessings radically shore up his limitations such that giving them up is way too much of a handicap. If you can make it past act 2, you're probably in the clear, but getting to that point is one hell of a hurdle.

Evil Kit posted:

Hell, it's even easier to pull off slap build now since Easy Kill is retroactive, you can just kill everything with slaps even without it and still benefit when you finally pick it up. Such an insane QoL buff, glad they finally put it in.

Tangentially related, it also helps that spirit links exist now. Though I guess the bigger problem for the moment is that I'm still farming up for the last few talents and don't have enough essence to splash around for phantom peddler buys anyway.

Edit: Suddenly realizing that nothing in the achievement description explicitly says it has to be a solo run. 🤔

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Oct 1, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
I mean, I don't think the issue is tombs. It's that desert will just up and kill you sometimes and both boss fights can turn into absolute nightmares for Prince if you don't show up already OP or haven't managed to find some kind of extra mobility beforehand. Ichthyosaur especially has some awfully narrow margins for error if you don't have anything to work with. Just did a nightmare practice/farm run with Prince that ran into that.

Also did a Bird practice run and found out that Corrupt Monks' lanterns can be infinitely farmed with Easy Kill, which seems like a massive albeit time consuming exploit. First frame unlocked!

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Oct 1, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Well, naturally after poo-pooing it I just went ahead and did it anyway.



Early Advanced Depot certainly helped. Predictably, I died once to Wind God but I had the full combo going by then and it was just a matter of not screwing up at the tail end of act 3. Had a few butt-pucker moments (including my usual need to get hit by at least one serpent rush) but hey, it worked.

Not only is that out of the way, it also got me to level 178. I can start actually enjoying Reincarnation! :toot:

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Oct 1, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
dfsdhfkjsdhfhsdfsd



Naturally, an S+++ tier drop like this could only come from the Pole Monarch himself. :argh:

This run was also my most broken to date. Prince with the smoke grenade blessing + both links. Elemental Orb + its link. And then Flesh and Bones + Sanguine Relic + Spirit Feline making me unkillable. Oh, and a Tombs phantom peddler with a 97% lightning sword, elemental shared ASAP. Just the most grotesque pile of bullshit.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Okay, definitely feeling the weird stratification caused by new stuff being stacked on top of old stuff. Granted, maybe Lei Luo's frame challenge isn't that hard to begin with, but I didn't expect to sleepwalk through it. But blessings, links, and even Mysterious Jokul will do that.

Mysterious Jokul is particularly odd to me because I originally assumed it would make the game noticeably harder but...it really doesn't. If anything it makes it way easier because I'll gladly take a double elite fight over certain rooms (especially in desert) and I end up with even more ascensions and scrolls. Plus more shop rerolls! Which snowballs into utterly stomping Jokul once I get there. Granted, I'm sure that changes once you're in high reincarnation and elites start having tons and tons of HP, but I'm happy to keep loving around on lower levels.

My build for that run was also hilarious. Unintentionally I kept going "that looks nice, that fits what I'm doing right now, oh that'll give me a good link" until by the end I nearly had 1 point in every single one of his ascensions. Worked way better than I would've ever expected.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
There's a particularly good link if you can nab at least three of the co-op exclusive scrolls, too. Buffs the whole team.

Mysterious Jokul hits a bit differently in co-op. The final elite rush is a huge clusterfuck (I think last night it was three mandrills and two snipers? enhanced ones, mind :gonk:) and unlike in solo Monarch gets a shadow clone at each boost phase, on top of his other buffs.

Granted it was also R6, so stuff was properly loving tanky by that point too.

Fishstick posted:

I still dont like the frames that require you to do them solo, very weird choice for what is ostensibly a coop game.

Is it though? I know a lot of folks play co-op, sure, but this isn't like Left4Dead or something where playing solo is a vastly diminished experience such that it's "wrong". And obviously the solo-only challenges would kinda lose their teeth if you could do them in co-op. Granted, the only one of the three that I think is well designed is Lei Luo's.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Oct 6, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Patch seems a little undercooked. Game's feeling a bit off and there's some definite bugs. Most obviously, try comparing a weapon with Z at the phantom peddler.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
That's a new one. Had two Phantom Peddlers in the first act. Pretty sure that's not supposed to happen...

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Speaking of, I do wish they would fix the map configurations that fail to spawn vaults or craftsmen.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Given he shows up 99% of the time it's just conspicuous when he doesn't. And it's happened before when I'm flush with copper and could really use a weapon boost to help my build take off.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Idk, feels like it needs some tweaks. Wiping out the entire skill unlock tree and then selling it back to me piecemeal as tetris buffs feels incredibly bad and in general resources feel slightly too limited and enemies scale slightly too hard. Elites especially have way too much health for solo.

There's also half a dozen weird annoyances. Biggest one, even when solo the game doesn't pause when you compare weapons, so comparing and swapping out weapons is a huge nightmare but you really have no choice because unless you build for economy you can't rely on the peddler and craftsman that much. The map is full of bad corners that you can get stuck in real easily, not helped by the game in general not being built around kiting to this degree before. The enemies mostly work as hordes, but the elites particularly do not mesh well and probably the worst example are the Sharks that can spawn on top of you and hook you basically instantly or even get teleported around the map mid-hook so you get yanked by phantom hooks. Also some instances of stacked enhancement types (shielded + healing + loyal) that turn a swarm of enemies into an impenetrable mass.

Though I guess my biggest problem is that the appeal of the regular game is scaling exponentially out of control and having that big "pop" moment like other roguelites, whereas this mode keeps you treading water for the duration.

The new boss is okay, though nothing to write home about.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
I've seen people elsewhere saying it's busted. Particularly if the rhythm element doesn't trouble you at all.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

John Lee posted:

What's the secret to making the other gauntlets good, by the way? I've never had one that dealt worthwhile damage, which makes me think I should be looking for some particular quality or scroll combination or something, because I've HEARD of them whupping rear end.

The two biggest ways to make injectors pop off are 1) spore Gemini them with basically any mid-high damage shotgun and get lightspeed spore stacks or 2) abuse elements for all they're worth. Gemini lightning and decay together and bam, you're racking up 9 stacks of miasma on everything with ease.

Fire gauntlets can lag behind slightly because no miasma potential, but they do get ramping single target damage and can melt anything with bare health if you've got a decent one.

One final huge secret is the scroll Wait for Good. "Once every 10 seconds your next shot crits" sounds pretty mediocre, except injectors are special and your 'next shot' is actually the entire uninterrupted duration you hold the trigger down.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

BrianRx posted:

Is it possible to make a Prince build focused on Energy Orb? I like the character but the Primary skill seems so weak. It's a moderate amount of damage, a few seconds of freeze, and possibly infliction of elemental damage. Even with the spiritual blessing that triples the amount of projectiles, it's underwhelming. Granted, I don't know what to build toward when picking its ascensions, but what is its purpose as a primary skill?

Energy Orb is always going to be utility first and foremost. The utility ascensions are crazy good for letting you press pause on nastier enemies and stay safe.

If you get the skill damage scrolls to feed it, the +damage and multi explosion ascension can be kinda good. (And there might be some way to use it to rapidly multi-proc combustion.) But Energy Blade is the better way to go if you want to translate orbs into damage. Especially if you mix in Acidic Explosion and a beefy fire sniper.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Nov 28, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Oh yeah, another quick addendum on injectors, it's worth remembering that with all the talents unlocked, they start with a baseline 50% lucky shot chance, so they tend to scale really well with anything that can dump extra lucky shot on top. Honestly anything that adds more stats is probably good. Even more RoF, crit, lucky shot, extra projectiles, raw damage isn't even terrible. They scale great with everything. There's even two rare inscriptions that add base damage but subtract accuracy or stability...well AFAIK injectors are always 100% accurate with zero recoil so...

Also it applies to most guns, really, but Against the Flow or Skateboarder can enable all sorts of shenanigans that fit together well with the kind of stuff you see on injectors somewhat often. +Lucky Shot or +Projectiles that reset after reloading...well just don't reload. Merciless Combo also makes injectors very, very happy.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Acidic Explosion doesn't scale off enemy HP (I think?), it creates a instant burst of damage equivalent to what a smoke grenade would have dealt over its full duration. So not only does Toxic Smoke help scale the damage up, but so does Smoke Genius.

Edit: In general, for horde mode I'd think Prince would benefit from not having any hard synergies in his ascension pool. Very few dead picks, even raw grenade capacity has its place. Whereas other characters need to worry about assembling the right parts, Prince can more easily pick and choose in situ and walk away with something good every time.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Nov 28, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Runa posted:

Yeah miasma is how I've been doing the vast majority of my damage, radioactive gloves seem custom-built specifically to be used as a crutch to deal with how overtuned the horde mode feels.

I've been running bunny rather than cat and also been rolling with the infectious fatal bloom which, thankfully, seems to be a common reward.

But it also feels like Miasma is required because your own damage output doesn't scale up nearly as quickly as the horde's HP numbers. I was dealing four times as much damage as my team combined just on the back of using Miasma. It feels weird that there's exactly one way to deal enough damage to put a dent in the horde and it relies on you getting the correct elemental weapons or ascensions to drop.

My solo win didn't use miasma...just spores. :v: But even then spores had trouble keeping up with the power curve to some extent.

Turin Turambar posted:

Remove radioactive gloves and a pair of broken build interactions, and the Horde mode is hard as hell, I agree.

Broken build interactions? Why, what do you mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBFdft9kWjU

:allears:

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Nov 29, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Fishstick posted:

Did I have a weird run, or did they change the Gemini "share elemental advantage" inscription so that the elemental chances now average out? eg a 5% shock gauntlet + 40% decay pistol => 30% shock gaunt / 30% decay pistol. However it occurred, insta-applying 9 stacks of miasma is pretty strong.

The numbers on elemental gauntlets are deceptive. Their RoF is insane enough that 5% is more than enough to proc elements like crazy. And then you can an inscription that bumps it up to 8%, IIRC.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Feb 18, 2023

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Ohh sorry, I completely misunderstood. That is peculiar.

I don't remember outside buffs dynamically changing weapon cards in the first place, but maybe I'm wrong. I do remember there's a few spots where which gun is in which slot does matter, though that's mostly a Dog thing and wouldn't be related to elemental procs. And there's the +50% Elemental Effect Chance upon hitting an enemy inscription...but that wouldn't steal anything from the offhand weapon so huh...

I'm assuming this was post-patch? Seems likely they mucked with something then, intentionally or no.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
I'm still not really sure how to feel about it, but Bird did always feel pretty drat broken if you got all the right pieces.

Well, I guess I should say broken in a "just mindlessly spam your nuke kick that also makes you unkillable" broken rather than regular Gunfire broken.

Edit: Giving it another read, it seems like they basically spread out the potency of kick across a few more ascensions (plus shunting All or Nothing to a Blessing) and tried to make armor management more active and his overall playstyle more about dancing between skill use and shooting. Seems reasonable.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Jun 3, 2023

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Turin Turambar posted:

As much as I like the game, it has some flaws that I don't understand how they aren't improved at this point. Like, the loot progression, it seems designed as if the players won't upgrade the weapons, ever, so they are hopelessly outdated by the point you reach Fjord (or even by the last stage of Desert). Even if you find a weapon with super ideal afixes, if it's level 9 and you have a level 18 weapon in your hands, it's too late at this point, the DPS is at the end of the day the most important thing, it's going to be scrapped for gold.

And a half a dozen weapons need a buff soo much. Just yesterday I tried to make the Arc Light work. Despite focusing on it, it was like swimming upstream, I ended up needing four times the usual time to kill one ufo, for example, and the final boss killed me at the end. Even for things with shield it wasn't very good.

I don't entirely disagree that it gets weird how many weapons drop over the course of a run yet only maybe 10% are worth even thinking about, but if you find killer affixes it can absolutely be worth accepting the level downgrade. Pretty sure weapon levels tend to be a very linear increase in power whereas most inscriptions will add multiplicative power. Granted, it's been a while and I don't remember things usually dropping with that severe of a level gap in the first place.

As for Arc Light, I don't know what you were doing wrong but IME it is actually pretty drat good. Your examples are strange because UFOs are usually pretty tanky unless your build has really kicked off and without a proper build backing it up I would never expect it to singlehandedly murder Pole Monarch either. Between a 3x crit multiplier letting it pop things on headshots and the secondary skill doing silly things it's a fantastic room clear weapon first and foremost. Of the three kunai weapons it's the one least in need of a buff.

John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Jun 5, 2023

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Geminis are a good example of the multiplicative power I'm talking about tho. Granted, runs where rerolling just absolutely refuses to give me the one I want, ever, are fairly uncommon but rerolling them is still a gamble and a money sink with its own pros and cons.

Ultimately I take it as another facet of the metagame same as evaluating weapons in general or budgeting your money or whatever. It's not the right choice 100% of the time, but it can be the right choice often enough that it's worth considering instead of blindly trashing all of your drops because they're lower level than what you've already got. True that it depends on where you're at in the run, same as a lot of other metagame aspects.

Though :psyduck: at the idea that exclusives are nbd. Heck, there's some common/rare ones that can break the game if they just happen to end up on the right gun. Geminis are important but they aint the whole story just like weapon levels aren't.

Maybe the margins are that much tighter on R8, but like, there's ten other difficulty levels below that...

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply