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Infinite Jest, written by David Foster Wallace Tip: If you prefer NOT to read Infinite Jest, it does make a good coffee table on which to lay your cup. OP goes here. Sorry for putting this part off but I will get to it. I am on a tight schedule in life, but this subject is important to me and I hope to continue to pursue the novel. I am taking this seriously, also going into it mostly blind although I am aware of one or two spoilers. The book was described to me as a big puzzle that you, the reader, are intended to unravel. I'd appreciate not outright spoiling the ending, but I guess I can't stop anyone. Please try to show some restraint. I'm attempting to have a neat organization. Symbols I'm using: * Chapter ** Character or Environment **** Details/Plot/Summary of the narrative >> My comments I read the section first, then go back a second time to take notes. Essentially, if I muster the energy, it would mean reading the book twice. excellent bird guy fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 06:24
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This is my analysis of the first page of the first chapter. * Year of the Glad: Chapter 1-1, page 3 **** The first paragraph of the first page The story begins in the first person narrative. "I am seated in an office surrounded by heads and bodies." The individual who's mind we are sharing is: ** Character: Harold 'Hal' Incandenza Hal is hyper-aware of his bodily sensations. He thinks in a painfully detailed manner. **** The introductory paragraph continues Hal's conscious awareness of temperature, the feeling of the chair, the walls, decorations on the wall, the windows, and the wall's insulation. >> This isn't what I'd call normal. A regular personality would not see the people in the room as 'heads and bodies,' while over-anaylzing the walls. ** Environment: Office of University Administration ** Character: Uncle Charles, AKA: C.T., Chuck Tavis, or Dr Tavis Accompanies Hal to the University Office. Hal's mother's half brother, Headmaster of Hal's high school. ** Character: Mr deLint Also accompanies Uncle Charles and Hal. He is the varsity tennis coach. **** Hal continues his observations "The faces have resolved..." Hal turns his attention to the people in the room. He attends to their coats and ties, then the wood of the table, the way the light shines. >> If the point hasn't been made clear, Hal isn't filtering out background details like a regular, socially well-adjusted person. ** Introduced Characters: Deans of Admissions, Academic Affairs, and Athletic Affairs Hal doesn't know who is who. All characters are at this time sitting together at a table. **** Hal's social mannerisms He attempts to become aware of his appearance. "I believe I appear neutral..." He was coached for this interview, being told not to make "what would feel like to me a pleasant expression or smile." >> This is a hint, that the individual coaching Hal was well aware of Hal's social differences. I can imagine Hal's expression of pleasantry being very odd if he was instructed not to do it. **** Hal sitting in a chair He is conscious of crossing his legs in a very particular manner 'ankle on knee,' hands in a specific position 'lap of my slacks,' and fingers in 'the letter X.' He becomes aware of other people again. Uncle Charles is sitting next to Hal. Hal hears the jingles of pocket change coming from Mr deLint, the tennis coach's pocket. Hal notices the 'digestive' smell of the room, and the high traction soles of his Nike shoes in comparison to Chuck's loafers. ** Character: The Yellow Dean A fixed smile. Conversational habit: "...relates my side of the story for me, to me." His face is yellow, according to Hal. >> Yellow tinge to skin is associated with jaundice. This may be a side effect of liver disease related to alcoholism. excellent bird guy fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 06:28
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I enjoy this book a great deal and i haven’t actually read much in depth analysis of the book other than when i googled “wtf just happened at the end of infinite jest” when i finished it. So i appreciate this and bookmarked. Enjoy your read!
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Sep 10, 2020 03:57
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I have that same coffee cup! And that book!
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Sep 10, 2020 12:54
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Have not long ago started this. I am about 400 odd pages in and I’m really enjoying it. Just want to be clear that what you’re attempting with this breakdown could end up being longer than the book itself. I also understand there is a pretty decent book analysing IJ out there already called Elegant Complexity that I’m considering getting if I return to this again. Having said that, don’t let me put you off and I look forward to reading your thoughts!
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Sep 20, 2020 01:27
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i made a long post i didnt like so i am editing it out. Just consider this a long term project please
excellent bird guy fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Sep 20, 2020 |
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Sep 20, 2020 01:50
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Long term indeed
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Oct 7, 2020 01:36
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read this book in prison based off recommendations I got here back in the day. You think it's a hard read normally? Try reading it with 159 people slamming cards and yelling at the TV. DFW really did nail the whole AA and sober house culture to a loving tee. I'm in a sober house right now and my sponsor is very much a Don Gately type dude.
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Oct 7, 2020 16:39
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Lol, small world. I'm on my way to court now and browsing the threads for books to read during my stay, and I've always wanted to tackle this one.
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Oct 13, 2020 12:38
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The Valuum posted:read this book in prison based off recommendations I got here back in the day. many concepts that id heard elserooms finally sank into my head upon a couple readings of IJ. it helped me get unfucked, so i gave my copy to a friend in active addiction and he is now clean afaik. magic book
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Oct 18, 2020 05:10
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I gotta say, once you get about a quarter into the novel and have your grounding with all the major characters and a sense for the timeline, it's not actually that difficult, just long. Like it disorients you at first because it's not telling you who key characters are or certain plot points but by the time you're around 250-300 pages in it's actually pretty straightforward. That said, lol DFW had no literally idea to end it and it's maybe the biggest slap in the face to say, well it's infinite entertainment.
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Oct 20, 2020 15:03
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Is the Pale King worth a read as well?
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Oct 24, 2020 14:46
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Tbh I bounced right off of Pale King twice. It had its moments, but it was derived from a very incomplete pile of content, and apparently Wallace wanted it to be an examination of mind-numbing boredom. So in this goons opinion, no.
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Nov 5, 2020 20:44
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TrixRabbi posted:I gotta say, once you get about a quarter into the novel and have your grounding with all the major characters and a sense for the timeline, it's not actually that difficult, just long. Like it disorients you at first because it's not telling you who key characters are or certain plot points but by the time you're around 250-300 pages in it's actually pretty straightforward. I really like your first paragraph but I disagree with your second. The novel really isn't about beginnings and endings, and it suggests that repeatedly. The narrative text ends with Don Gately's end-of-your-rope addiction rockbottom, but the novel's first paragraph is the latest chronologically. The text is like a tennis match, turning your neck back and forth, back and forth. It does that symbolically (themes) and literally (the main text to the footnotes, the footnotes back to the main text). The reader isn't meant to unlock some secret gold nugget that levels you up, it's more like the stated AA mantra of "Keep Coming Back, It Works." That's the idea behind the "infinite", and all the references to fractals and the Sierpiński triangle.
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Nov 11, 2020 03:38
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Endnotes.
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Nov 11, 2020 07:43
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can't wait till you find the boner joke, OP
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Nov 12, 2020 02:32
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I have just finished this book, someone give me a medal. My feeling is it's a masterpiece of craft and writing but also kind of a lovely, self-aware joke in that it's knowingly testing your patience and trying to get you to throw it away. There's a bit towards the end (pg. 946-947 in my version) talking about one of Incandeza Sr.'s films that goes: "Did Himself subject us to 500 seconds of the repeated cry 'Murder!' for some reason, i.e is the puzzlement and then boredom and then impatience and then excruciation and then near-rage aroused in the film's audience by the static repetitive 1/3 of the film aroused for some theoretical aesthetic end, or is Himself simply an amazingly lovely editor of his own stuff?" and I think that sums things up pretty well. It's an incredible piece of work. Staggering in the effort and ability and the knowledge required to write it. I haven't the faintest idea how DFW completed it in only 3 years, the man was capital B Brilliant. Still kind of a shaggy-dog joke tho.
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May 14, 2021 23:23
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I’m not going to say the book couldn’t have been trimmed at times, but it has so so so many memorable moments that I think the length is mostly justified. If this was your first DFW, I highly recommend his short story collection Oblivion. It eliminates the exhausting length issue some might have, and delivers totally distilled DFW brilliance. It’s by far my favorite work of his.
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May 15, 2021 02:45
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I wouldn't cut it down - the length and aimlessness and repetition of themes of it seems like part of the point. You could probably cut 500 or 750 pages out of it and lose nothing of the plot, but you would lose the point of writing a super long and unfocused book that is still extremely careful and precise. Spoilers (in case the OP returns) - What's going on with Hal by the end/start? There's a summary here: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ijend that says Hal's brain got messed up by eating fungus and his Dad (James) was the only one that noticed, and James comes up with the movie and some drugs to treat him. But Hal's "Call it something I ate" (pg.10) leading to the fungus-eating story is ambiguous, we only know about that story from Orin (whom no-one trusts), no-one else in Hal's life seems to think he's deficient or unable to connect or communicate and as for James, the Incandezas seem to have a familial trait of bad father/son communication - James seems permanently broken by the idea that his father never communicated with him but we have chapters that show otherwise, and not in an uncaring or abusive way exactly, James was just a cerebral and awkward child and his dad (James Sr.) was an unbelievable drunk, also in turn hosed up with the idea that his dad (James Sr.'s dad) didn't care about him. The summary (written by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz incidentally, big rips to that guy) suggests that Hal is sick from eating the fungus and the film Infinite Jest was intended to be used alongside the drug DMZ as a treatment, so the ghost of James Jr. drugs Hal with DMZ via his toothbrush to start the process of fixing him. Now Hal's problems by the start of the book do resemble the legends he and Pemulis share about people who've taken too much DMZ (singing show tunes all day and unable to communicate), which suggests he must have taken the DMZ at some point. But ghosts aren't real, and Hal is also going through a kind of depression and personal crisis brought on from his withdrawal from constant cannabis use, which could also be responsible. Has maybe Pemulis drugged Hal with the DMZ in some attempt to help him? (Pemulis being against the idea of going white-knuckle cold turkey and probably worried about his friend spiralling into depression). Does anyone have any theories about this? Is Hal actually deficient in any way beyond being a bit cerebral and a weed addict? Does the fungus have anything to do with anything? Did he take the DMZ somehow or is he just going through some kind of extended psychosomatic rebellion that he was previously suppressing with cannabis? Are ghosts real? Often Abbreviated fucked around with this message at 12:32 on May 15, 2021 |
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May 15, 2021 12:28
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I decided to pick this up purely on a throwaway comment somewhere saying Infinite Jest fans are as annoying as Dune fans, and I really liked dune, so  So far what's got me through the first 100 pages is getting to the very brief glimpses into how the medical attaché's quiet night in is progressing, but I'm persisting in the hope that the book gets going soon... I have read literally nothing about this book that spoils the plot, but so far I'm guessing that the infinite jest work(s) that got mentioned in the torturously long filmgraphy endnote is what the mysterious tape is? My PIN is 4826 fucked around with this message at 11:51 on May 20, 2021 |
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May 20, 2021 11:49
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My PIN is 4826 posted:but I'm persisting in the hope that the book gets going soon... Persistence and hope are valuable traits.
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May 20, 2021 14:24
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My PIN is 4826 posted:I decided to pick this up purely on a throwaway comment somewhere saying Infinite Jest fans are as annoying as Dune fans, and I really liked dune, so I finished it a month or two ago. I would say that it never really gets going, so to speak, it just kinda sucks you in at some point. It got me somewhere after page 200. regarding your spoiler yes, its one of them, V i believe
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May 21, 2021 00:49
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Often Abbreviated posted:Does anyone have any theories about this? Is Hal actually deficient in any way beyond being a bit cerebral and a weed addict? Does the fungus have anything to do with anything? Did he take the DMZ somehow or is he just going through some kind of extended psychosomatic rebellion that he was previously suppressing with cannabis? Are ghosts real? It's been a long time since I've read the book and I don't really have a better theory than Aaron Swartz's but I'd say the long section where the ghost of James appears to Gately is confirmation that ghosts exist and can at least communicate with people. That's different from them being able to actually interact with objects, of course. As I recall, the only suggestions of that are all the weird stuff that happens to Stice but nothing is confirmed. Also, Infinite Jest obviously borrows a lot from Hamlet and I think the ghost there only ever talks to people. My PIN is 4826 posted:So far what's got me through the first 100 pages is getting to the very brief glimpses into how the medical attaché's quiet night in is progressing, but I'm persisting in the hope that the book gets going soon... For me it took about 300 pages (up to the Eschaton game, I believe). After that it picked up really fast
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May 22, 2021 12:56
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I finished this book half a year ago. It was good in the end, and I still think about it often  10/10 would not recommend
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Feb 13, 2023 22:53
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I reemember following this thread while I read other books, and I was seeing connections with IJ where none existed. 10/10
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Feb 14, 2023 01:17
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I'm about 200 pages into Gravity's Rainbow, which also happens to be my first Pynchon. I was startled to realize just how nakedly Infinite Jest borrows from Gravity's Rainbow in style, form, aesthetics, scope, ambition. I thought Infinite Jest was a little more... sui generis I guess. But it's much clearer to me now that it had at least one major antecedent.
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Feb 14, 2023 03:47
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Jewmanji posted:I'm about 200 pages into Gravity's Rainbow, which also happens to be my first Pynchon. I was startled to realize just how nakedly Infinite Jest borrows from Gravity's Rainbow in style, form, aesthetics, scope, ambition. I thought Infinite Jest was a little more... sui generis I guess. But it's much clearer to me now that it had at least one major antecedent. How far into GR are you now? There is a scene in “in the zone” that seems to have a pretty direct analogue in IJ.
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Mar 2, 2023 22:10
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I got a few sections into Section 2 (The Herman Goering Casino) and then gave up. I haven't stopped thinking about it though, I think I just needed a few weeks off and will dive back in. It definitely feels a bit like homework.
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Mar 3, 2023 23:42
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Jewmanji posted:I got a few sections into Section 2 (The Herman Goering Casino) and then gave up. I haven't stopped thinking about it though, I think I just needed a few weeks off and will dive back in. It definitely feels a bit like homework. I bounced off it a few times too. It’s definitely a grind to get through in places, but it was definitely worth it to me to finish it finally. I did a hybrid ‘read’ on it — I’d listen to the audiobook for some of it and then read some of it myself. Good luck!
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Mar 4, 2023 01:53
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I prefer genre fiction and true crime, but good writing is good writing so I’m trying to expand my horizons. How hard will I bounce off of this? Is it at least funny? If I finish it, how much smarter will I feel than the normies?
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Mar 4, 2023 19:24
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Good news, it’s set in the near sci-fi future when time has been abolished and giant radioactive hamsters roam the north.
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Mar 4, 2023 19:27
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No it isn’t and that doesn’t sound like genre fiction I would want to read! It’s about, uh, a college professor who finds, uh, an evil VHS tape? You see I can’t even get a clear synopsis from you literary types!
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Mar 4, 2023 19:29
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I would start with his essays first to get a sense of his style. His short story collection Oblivion is also fantastic and a good entry point.
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Mar 4, 2023 19:31
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I read that lobster article. You know, while I was eating a lobster roll. It was on a plane, we didn’t have choice of reading material or food.
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Mar 4, 2023 19:34
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If I were describe it honesty I’d say it’s about a young tennis prodigy who is slowly falling into addiction, and an older man who is slowly recovering. There’s a lot of other plots and characters, and a lot more to those two, but following the journey of those two is really what make the book great to me.
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Mar 4, 2023 19:36
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lifg posted:If I were describe it honesty I’d say it’s about a young tennis prodigy who is slowly falling into addiction, and an older man who is slowly recovering. There’s a lot of other plots and characters, and a lot more to those two, but following the journey of those two is really what make the book great to me. I mean yeah that's sort of the "synopsis" but that gives readers the impression that this is a straightforward narrative with a clear throughline and ending, which itvery much does not have. It's the opposite of the OP's true crime stuff- there's nothing linear or conclusory about it.
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Mar 4, 2023 20:29
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The main thing you need to know is that it's an odd setting that rarely comes out and explains itself to you, but feeds you bread crumbs (beans you on the head with dinner rolls) with clues that help you piece it all together. It strikes the "ah hah!" center of your brain when you piece things together.
ninjoatse.cx fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Mar 5, 2023 |
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Mar 5, 2023 01:03
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Even if you're a dumb idiot like me who doesn't make all the connections, you'll probably get to 90% of making all the connections and read that one guy's blog post who explains it all, and then you get the same "ah hah!" Other than that, I think the use of language itself in this book was memorable. It was just a really enjoyable how many POVs in the story have their own style of writing, and how DFW's sentences pay zero respect to readability and still makes you want to make the effort to parse them even if you read one for the third time.
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Mar 5, 2023 09:03
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Been going through this book for the third time (although this time I’m just listening to the Infinite Cast podcast which is a lot of fun although of course I would not recommend it for anyone’s first time) and it still kinda bowls me over how often I find passages and ideas I find powerful and thoughtful and generally hashtag relatable and also just how much more casual and readable it is than its ridiculous reputation would lead one to assume. Also just how many characters are like legitimately loveable and engaging. Best book!!!!!
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Jun 7, 2023 12:45
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Nigmaetcetera posted:No it isn’t and that doesn’t sound like genre fiction I would want to read! It’s about, uh, a college professor who finds, uh, an evil VHS tape? You see I can’t even get a clear synopsis from you literary types! I feel the same way, it's like they're allergic to saying anything concrete or elucidating. I listened to some of the audiobook, but I'm going to have to read it because the audiobook doesn't read out the endnotes. From what I've got through so far, there are some main characters, one of them being the tennis prodigy, but their scenes are sandwiched around various vignettes For example, there's a story that for all I know will never come up again, but I guess I'll spoiler tag it, about a judge or DA or something that goes way too hard on some kids, and they get revenge by breaking into his house and shoving his and his wife's toothbrushes up their butts, and sending them the video of it after they've used the toothbrushes for several weeks. Then the kids accidentally kill someone, like in a way that they and most people wouldn't expect someone could die, and the DA gets his revenge by getting the maximum sentence for that, I think. I don't remember exactly. Point is, there are random weird stories like that. The years are named after brands, I guess, which is good for a gag when one of them is "Year of the Depend Adult Undergarment," but the purpose seems to be to make the timeline unclear at first other than what was contemporaneous, but I also am not going to remember which year each event took place in without a ton of back-tracking, so it's not the best choice, but at least it's not picking a year that readers will eventually be in, chuckling that the author thought people would still be watching VHS tapes today. The VHS is introduced in a series of brief scenes peppered amid the "main" stuff, in a way that you might present a Patient Zero in a disaster movie. I won't spoiler tag this one because it's one of the main things I hear people say about the book. It becomes impossible to stop watching, and so the first person who found it (I don't know how) basically dies of starvation or dehydration, and her husband finds her and suffers the same fate. So it's like the Monty Python sketch about the funniest joke in the world, except I don't think the creator dies of it, but I wouldn't know. I'm told at some point a plotline involves the feds trying to track it down, either to contain it or use it as a weapon? That piqued my interest and got me to start the book. I wasn't sure whether I would give a poo poo about some high-pressure tennis academy, and some of that stuff definitely drags on. It takes way too long to explain how he goes to some maintenance tunnel to smoke weed. In that sense I would appreciate a trimmed-down version, because I really don't care about matching the style to the themes, or the reading experience with the experience of the character, in the way I might with a film, but it would probably be hard to make the right choices about what to cut. But ultimately I think the tennis guy is relatable enough, his disability an asymptote against which to compare my own disconnection between my inner and outer state. His woes remind me a little bit of some of Louis Sachar's characters, just a bit more grown up. I think the degree of plodding means that you can gloss over any overly boring sections and be sure that you're not missing information that is required for the rest of the story to make sense. Judging by his posthumous novel being about boredom, I can guess that DFW felt a lot of internalized pressure to make books into grueling work, and from the nature of his death I'd prefer not to follow in his shoes, instead cutting my own path through his jungle.
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Jul 13, 2023 06:19
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