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I am very pro border restrictions but that case was one in which Morrison was right and Palaszcuk was wrong. The bereaved in question was flying in from the ACT, where there's no community transmission. What was the risk? edit - I'm not saying Morrison wasn't politically motivated, obviously he was. But so was Palaszcuk. Taking a hardline "no exceptions" rule to "send a message" is lovely when we do it for international migrants and lovely when we do it to our own people too.
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Sep 11, 2020 01:10
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Knobb Manwich posted:There was an exception. The bereaved was offered a private viewing but not exempted to attend the funeral proper to mix with other people. There's more COVID in Queensland than in the ACT. She would literally be more at risk from the other funeralgoers than they would be from her.
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Sep 11, 2020 04:57
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Knobb Manwich posted:It's no risk to travel from a lower risk area to a still-low-but-higher risk area? It's an infinitesimally small risk for somebody asking for compassionate exemption. It would be a different question if they were coming from Melbourne, but they're coming from a territory that's recorded no cases of COVID for six weeks. uvar posted:I didn't even know he was on TV and thought you meant his column had been dumped. What a letdown. I'm more glad KAK is gone from Channel 10 than Hildebrand because she's orders of magnitude worse, but either way it doesn't really make any difference, these are just budget cuts and they'll resurface elsewhere. The more troubling thing is that this is part of massive budget cuts across Ten which has also seen them slash their non Sydney and Melbourne newsrooms. I know it's just Ten, but a) a lot of those same journos fed work and material into The Project which is some of the only decent progressive journalism in the country, and b) it's part of a much broader pattern of the slow death of journalism in this country.
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Sep 11, 2020 10:34
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SHALASHASKA HAWKE posted:hahahaha Can you name me anywhere else on the commercial networks that you'll see people discuss (for example) Indigenous discrimination from a remotely sympathetic perspective?
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Sep 12, 2020 04:02
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SHALASHASKA HAWKE posted:It’s milquetoast ‘centrism’ with a socially progressive veneer that pretends class doesn’t exist and loved Pyne, Turnbull and Julie Bishop. And without it we're left with panel shows that are just openly racist and right-wing. Anyway CBS slowly dialing down Ten's life support is a bad thing. Even without taking a political view of where the networks sit along the spectrum from centrist to right-wing, gutting the Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane newsrooms is just as bad as all the regional newspapers constantly going out of business. Less scrutiny of local issues and local politics is not good for anyone.
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Sep 12, 2020 15:19
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Anidav posted:Started with centrelink finally, first job they recommended me is picking fruit lmao. I was watching a Senate committee the other day (for work, not my usual past-time) and they were talking to producers who were basically saying the entire industry is in crisis because it's so reliant on backpacker labour and while there are some who are stuck here, there are certainly no more coming in, and the labour pool is basically draining every day as all those French and German and British kids gradually go home. I'm not surprised they'd shove Centrelink recipients out on the front line, but they were even spitballing trying to recruit grey nomads, prisoners, or offering school leavers a HECS discount if they go do a season of picking. (Which, frankly, if I was a Year 12 student staring down the barrel of beginning university in my bedroom on my laptop, wouldn't sound too bad as a gap year option.) The obvious response I had was "maybe it was a bad idea to make agriculture and horticulture entirely dependent on working holidaymakers," but it is a genuine pickle when you can't just change that lovely, gradual, not-quite-policy decision overnight. Lube Enthusiast posted:I-i was honestly thinking of looking for a fruit picking job a while back Pretty much. I had a friend who did a few summers of cherry picking in Tasmania in his 20s and loved it - start at 5:00am, listen to your iPod while doing repetitive manual labour in the fresh air all morning, knock off in the early arvo and spend the rest of the day smoking weed and swimming in the river with the European backpackers. If you're young and don't mind relocating, communal living and early starts, it's probably better than a lot of the other lovely manual labour jobs out there.
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Sep 13, 2020 11:12
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. I assume it’s mostly unskilled labour that only requires transport
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Unless you're in Tasmania at the very end of December I think you'd be hard-pressed to spend 14 hours under the sun
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Sep 13, 2020 11:28
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As I've said before the offer of HECS discount would be a huge incentive if I was finishing Year 12 or finishing uni - in fact it would be a huge incentive to me now if I'd lost my job from COVID - but they really need to be prepared to put a figure on it. Kids aren't going to uproot themselves for a manual labour job for whatever paltry 10% off bullshit they end up offering.
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Sep 15, 2020 10:50
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It'll be fun if they actually gently caress this badly enough to the point that we see fresh produce shortages. If you thought people were going apeshit panic buying toilet paper, just wait until there's only one bushel of tomatoes left!
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Sep 16, 2020 01:04
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If Qantas is desperate for business they can loving lobby the state governments to lift their quarantine cap so they can go fetch Australians stranded overseas
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Sep 17, 2020 10:09
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Electric Wrigglies posted:Yes, that would be part of the reason for quantas to get media to help put pressure on government about covid protocols - mostly empty 777s or A380s flying Dubai Sydney probably aren’t profitable even if every passenger was business /first class. Yet instead they choose to take out ads to pressure state premiers to open their borders. Particularly galling since it's also up to state premiers how many returned quarantinees they let in - so pressure them about that, please. uvar posted:Would you pass the Australian Values section on the updated Citizenship Test? I'm also still waiting to see what the updates to the Australian Values Statement are about. Unpopular opinion: there is a big difference between residency/permanent residency and actual citizenship, which confers the right to vote and run for office. Popular opinion: A multiple choice test is completely pointless because it's obvious to anyone with enough English proficiency to take it what the "right" answers are, in the same way that I did basically none of my uni readings this week and still got 10/10 on the weekly quiz.
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Sep 17, 2020 14:52
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Yet another loving fat cat on a seven-figure salary displaying a newfound concern for mental health and poor people that definitely has nothing to do with his own business interests: https://www.theage.com.au/national/melbourne-uni-chief-says-victoria-must-address-difficult-ethical-questions-20200919-p55x82.html It baffles me that you would try trotting this out now, as we enter the home stretch. Yeah for sure man let's open the borders up and let cases spike again after all this, sounds like a loving plan
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Sep 20, 2020 05:27
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abigserve posted:This is so loving stupid and it's whipped out constantly Exactly. Even if you're a complete loving ghoul who's happy for people to die as long as The Economy can keep going, having Australia eliminate the virus and keep the international border closed is going to be way better for The Economy than having us chug along like America or Europe with a constant death toll and plummeting consumer confidence. I don't think it's unreasonable to open to foreign students as long as they do their two weeks quarantine, and I don't think two weeks is particularly onerous if you're here for a full semester or year (as opposed to tourists). The most galling part is when he says Australia has become a "victim of its own success" because it's been eliminated in 6 states and now people have that "expectation." So basically, the plebs have figured out that they don't actually have to sacrifice their lives just because the captains of industry want them to. What a disaster.
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Sep 20, 2020 08:52
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Megillah Gorilla posted:"Natural causes" for an Aboriginal death in custody in this country still includes hanging yourself with your hands tied behind your back and spontaneous heart attacks with associated boot shaped bruising on the chest. Alleging that Tilberoo's death was a covered-up murder is not helpful.
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Sep 21, 2020 12:44
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Yes, because Aboriginal people have such a connection to the land that being severed from it by being placed in a concrete cell can cause them to wither and die. This is why so many die in custody each year. Definitely that and not from either neglect or active malevolence. I didn't say it wasn't from neglect. (Or that the higher rates of alcoholism, self-harm and adverse health conditions aren't a direct result of 200 years of oppression). There is a huge difference between neglect, and active murder covered up by an independent coroner. Both of them are bad. One of them is what actually happened. Pretending that every death in custody is a straight-up murder is false, and pushing a false narrative is not helpful for a cause.
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Sep 22, 2020 01:30
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TheLastRoboKy posted:It's a bit ironic but "This isn't helping your cause" is the least helpful response you can give when faced with someone venting in frustration and anger about institutionalised abuses of human rights and decencies, that are often covered up by the institutions to protect themselves and their mates from scrutiny and responsibility. This is fair enough. Nobody needs to be doing anything "helpful" on a dumb comedy forum. I just get annoyed on principle when people react to actual, real issues with inane hyperbole like, say, implying that the Brisbane coroner is conspiring with police to cover up a deliberate murder. Given that it's an institutional problem, what I mean by "unhelpful" is that it draws a false dichotomy by suggesting that all Aboriginal deaths in custody are the result of direct malice rather than indirect malice, callousness or carelessness because Aboriginal lives are viewed as less important (on the part of both police and a social system which in the first place makes them come into contact with the CJS far more often). This is precisely what allows various officials to get away with mealy-mouthed talk about deaths of "natural causes." The failing being examined at the moment is that she wasn't checked on hourly - as though everything would have been fine if she were. It allows society to dodge the broader question of why she was in that cell in the first place, why she wasn't with family or friends when she had a health crisis. That's what people should focus on. It's enough of an outrage without speculating that police murdered her. And yeah, yeah, I know, who cares because it was a throwaway line and this is a private forum nobody's actually reading anyway.
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Sep 22, 2020 05:08
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realbez posted:Hey freebooter you should join us on the discord where we have civilised conversations with each other instead of the petty sniping done on this here forum Genuinely don't understand the appeal of Discord over Twitter (which is where I do my laconic petty sniping)
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Sep 24, 2020 11:21
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Into The Mild posted:The only memory of Healthy Harold I have was this kid in our class ripped the puppet off the hand of the lady, and threw it on the ground and started to jump on it, whilst yelling something in Farsi (I think) Tremendous
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Sep 25, 2020 00:27
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Cartoon posted:Do police deter crime? A majority of studies surveyed found that either This isn't wrong (and lol at Queensland) but bear in mind that the recorded and/or reported level of crime =/= crime
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Sep 28, 2020 00:49
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It's pretty funny that we renamed an agency BORDER FORCE and poured all that money into it and gave its agents spiffy jet-black police state uniforms and then when we had a genuine emergency relating to the borders we punted it to Serco
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Sep 28, 2020 05:57
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Cormann's retiring before the next election, but it'll be interesting to see whether the Liberals' constant sniping at WA's enormously popular closed border has any long-term flow-on effect to their vote in general https://thewest.com.au/politics/report-calls-for-urgent-aged-care-changes-ng-s-2032154
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Oct 2, 2020 01:42
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Why is Berejiklian so aggressive about QLD reopening their borders? I get why Morrison wants all the borders open and I get why the QLD tourism lobby wants that particular border open, but why does Berejiklian give a poo poo? Is it purely about optics because it implies that NSW isn't handling COVID?
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Oct 8, 2020 04:54
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The Age's latest installment in its series of treating lockdown vs COVID deaths as a beard-stroking trolley problem is a piece by Peter Singer, who's argued in the past that it's morally OK to kill newborn babies with disabilities https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/we-should-be-counting-years-of-life-lost-or-saved-20201008-p56362.html
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Oct 9, 2020 02:38
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Solemn Sloth posted:The article seems like a heap of fuckin garbage overall but this really stood out to me Yeah the argument I do hear tends to come from middle-aged conservatives, business owners etc who say that the young shouldn't have to suffer in the primes of their lives so the old can have a few more years, which mysteriously doesn't apply to climate change, or free tertiary education, or workplace labour rights, or any raft of other policies which gently caress over the young for the benefit of the boomers, which makes you wonder if maybe the use of the poor 20-year-olds or Year 12 students is just a stalking horse for the same anti-lockdown demographic which has discovered a newfound concern about poverty and domestic violence and mental health when those things could suddenly be linked to public health measures which impact on business profits
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Oct 9, 2020 06:55
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I do my own research when voting federally, but for the council elections it feels safe enough to just follow the HTV card the Greens sent out
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Oct 11, 2020 06:11
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If my social media feeds are any guide, the pause in declining cases over the past fortnight has really driven some Melburnians to breaking point. It's frustrating and depressing, but I don't see the logic in being prepared to throw the towel in now when we're this close.
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Oct 11, 2020 23:43
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The weirdest thing for me is the disconnect some people still have between lockdown and threat to public health. You aren't upset about the lockdown - you're upset about the pandemic that makes the lockdown necessary.
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Oct 12, 2020 00:06
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CelestialScribe posted:gently caress Dan Andrews. gently caress his contact tracing team. gently caress these ridiculous rules. You are a stupid and selfish oval office
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Oct 12, 2020 03:13
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EoinCannon posted:Yeah, Europe is a cautionary tale for us in real time right now I think you will find other countries do not exist; in fact, nowhere exists outside of Victoria and the Model Coronavirus Response State New South Wales, where everyone is still working from home and small businesses in and around the CBD are going bankrupt
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Oct 12, 2020 05:06
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Pikehead posted:Does that make Queensland somewhere used to scare the younglings? Queensland is where characters on Home and Away get to retire to if they've been good Kt88 posted:The main issue with Victoria's response right now is the rebuild of its centralised and under-resourced health response/contact tracing systems. Lockdowns were very effective but at this point the difference between 3 cases or 15 cases basically comes down to whether 1 person out of 5 million makes a bad decision that day and goes to work with a sore throat. Yeah, lockdowns are something that everybody can easily understand whether they agree with them or not, but so much of this depends on the impenetrable bureaucracy of a health system that makes most people just switch off even if they care about the issue. We all know at this point that NSW has better contact tracing than Victoria but I'm buggered if I can explain to you how or why. My biggest fear would be that we'll start opening up while we still have a handful of clusters and it will turn out our contact tracing is still crap. Which among other reasons is why I'd be happy to go for elimination - for all we know, WA and SA and the NT have lovely contact tracing systems too, they just haven't had to test them.
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Oct 12, 2020 08:20
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Sierra Madre posted:At that point, I think the easiest state response (if they don't fold, which I think/worry they eventually will) would be locking everyone in by force. Go full police state. Quarantine by gunpoint. That's the worst case scenario, but hey, concerns have been raised here, several times and over the past few years, about the increasing militarisation of VicPol. Can you really dismiss it as a possibility? Yes, purely because they don't have the manpower. (At least in a scenario where a majority of people, rather than a loud minority, want to break regulations.)
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Oct 12, 2020 09:43
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CelestialScribe posted:Before the 5km lockdown was in place and during the relaxed May and June restrictions you weren’t staying 5km within your house so spare me the loving high and mighty act. I was, because the only reasons we were legally allowed to leave our houses were to shop for food or medicine, exercise, see a GP or work. Anybody working from home in the metropolitan area can absolutely do all of those things within a 5km radius. The reason "I'm just standing in a park, I don't even have COVID anyway" is not an excuse to break the rules is because if all five million people in Melbourne had that attitude, cases would start rising very quickly. It's the same reason fishing regulations are in place even though one individual taking home a few extra abalone "won't make a difference;" the same reason that no matter how experienced and responsible a camper you are, you still can't have a campfire in the middle of summer because if 100,000 people have a campfire, the likelihood of a single mistake or accident which starts a bushfire grows enormously. But you have clearly demonstrated in your childish tantrums that you are incapable of viewing this situation with any sense of civic duty, responsibility or obligation to the people around you. Tommunist posted:FWIW i feel like the way social bubble rules have been set up leave alot to be desired. Thinking around things in terms of household units punishes people who arnt in a family set up or for wholm the family set up isnt anywhere close to ideal. I think a huge part of it this is that the political class and the public service are mostly staffed by middle-aged, middle-class bureaucrats for whom the concept of a sharehouse doesn't really enter into their thinking. Some of them might have done a stretch of it in their uni days or whatever, but many wouldn't realise that in 2020 a huge amount of Australians in their 20s - maybe a majority in Sydney and Melbourne - share houses with people off Gumtree. (See also: "you can prove your address with a utility bill.") But also it's just sort of unavoidable. A household is a joint living space, whether it's full of strangers or family members; one person exposing themselves to COVID risk exposes the whole household to COVID risk.
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Oct 12, 2020 12:16
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The intimate partner rule slots under the definition of care. Without it, a lot of single people would be completely alone. You literally had a huffy childish tantrum a few pages ago about how because Dan Andrews screwed up hotel quarantine you aren't going to abide by the restrictions - sulky behaviour I would expect from a 10-year-old, not a parent. You do not get to pretend to be a logical voice of reason. edit - to be clear this was aimed at our resident epidemiological expert, not Tommunist
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Oct 12, 2020 12:28
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This guy is one of the leading epidemiologists at the uni of Melbourne that the government is basing their plans on, and I'm just some guy, but... https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/time-to-open-up-more-but-we-need-to-prioritise-what-we-value-most-20201012-p56496.html quote:Third, the last two steps of the road map (a distant mirage at the moment) are actually elimination steps. Given both the stubborn tail we are now in, and the fact that NSW has had a modest resurgence and has made it utterly clear they think long-run elimination is impossible, it is near pointless for Victoria to overtly pursue elimination. ...I genuinely do not understand this consistent mindset that Victoria and New South Wales are somehow special or different from the other states and territories. Yes, Sydney and Melbourne are larger cities, but it's just a matter of scale surely? It can't be that much easier to wipe it out in Brisbane, pop. 3 million, than Melbourne, pop. 5 million? (Or New Zealand, also pop. 5 million.) Anyway it's a genuinely depressing article which says we need to be prepared to be in some kind of lockdown or another through 2021. Which makes me want to try to figure out some way of moving back to WA.
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Oct 13, 2020 05:42
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GoldStandardConure posted:gently caress off we're full I said back! I was born and bred! Never mind right now that I hosed off age 20 for the bright lights. On an actually serious note, though - I wonder how many young people from Perth would have been relatively newly arrived in east coast cities when this kicked off, and subsequently lost their jobs, have zero family support network and can't go back home. lih posted:it never really got out of control in Brisbane ever. there were only ever a few small outbreaks at a time that were quickly contact-traced and totally isolated, so that's a little different to trying to deal with the last remnants of much larger outbreaks. i agree it's quite possible NSW could have completely eliminated it if they'd had restrictions for a little longer. in Victoria this difficult tail seems to be at least partially due to problems with contact tracing especially in health care, problems with PPE, difficulty getting people in high-risk workplaces to isolate when they have symptoms (such as if they're migrant workers not eligible for the payments that are available for most people who have symptoms), etc., at least according to some reports i've seen I thought Sydney did, in fact, more or less eliminate it right before it came back in from Victoria via the Crossroads Hotel? (Although that was a trucker and therefore essential travel, so I guess a closed border wouldn't have made a difference.)
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Oct 13, 2020 06:37
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Sierra Madre posted:I've been thinking about something for a while now and I'd like anyone presently in the Melbourne area to ask themselves this: since the beginning of this second lockdown, has your life been noticeably improved as a result of declining cases? Because this is what I'm really worried about : people see cases go down, but there's nothing in it for them. You're still stuck at home, there's a chance you've lost your main source of income, if you still have a job you're likely working less and earning less, you can't do poo poo with your time and money because everything is closed, you're being told by the government that you have to observe all these rules but they expect you to have the means to abide by them. (If masks are necessary then they should be supplied by the state at no cost. If staying indoors is mandatory then housing should be provided and evictions should be illegal. I know that even the most progressive Labor governments would be hesitant, but that's what you need to do in this situation.) You've observed, to the best of your ability, all the guidelines that the state government has placed on you. But cases have not decreased to the degree that was expected or required to loosen restrictions. 'Sorry, you did what we asked but it's still not good enough. Hey, maybe we'll let you have two guests in your house instead of one. Good luck with keeping that house.' You don't even see the fruits of that collective action. What does declining COVID cases look like to the individual, if not just a number on the news? My partner is immunocompromised and has existing lung damage so we've had to be super careful regardless of what the law says we can do at any given time. Cases being down to these numbers mean we're now comfortable getting takeaway food, takeaway coffee etc. At the very height of the bad numbers I stopped jogging around the park because I didn't feel comfortable even briefly passing that many sweaty, huffing, exhaling, maskless other joggers; I don't feel concerned about that now. We would also feel comfortable now visiting friends and family (at least those who we know are also taking it seriously) but we don't have any within a 5km radius. I would be taking all this seriously even if I was single, but probably would have spent a fortune on Uber Eats all the way through, and would have still just been going down to Woolies instead of getting groceries delivered and then washing them. But having a partner whose risk of death is something like 90% rather than 0.1% (for people of our age) is a very good way of recognising what sucks about this year as being "the pandemic," not "the lockdown."
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Oct 13, 2020 12:43
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Oh and on a non-personal note schools are back now, which presumably makes a world of difference for parents.
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Oct 13, 2020 12:44
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I am a good and attentive driver and there's hardly anyone around at night anyway; therefore, it's reasonable for me to drive my Skyline down Princes Highway at 130 k's an hour. I am an experienced fisherman and good swimmer; it is reasonable for me not to wear a life jacket or carry an EPIRB. I've spent years in the outdoors. Yes, it's a breezy 35-degree day, but I know how to manage my campfire carefully; the total fire ban is for those other, irresponsible types, not for me.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:41
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The cluster in Shepparton reported last night is confirmed to have come from the same Melburnian who spread it to Kilmore by breaking the rules (had a work permit, but even if you're cleared to travel to rural Vic you're supposed to abide by Melbourne restrictions i.e. do not sit in a cafe, do not do non-essential shopping), and who apparently also lied to contact tracers about where he'd been. https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/three-new-covid-19-cases-emerge-in-shepparton-20201014-p564uk.html But given that he visited two different tyre shops and Bunnings, I think we can safely guess his demographic and conclude that he won't get his face plastered on the front of the Herald Sun like the African girls who went Queensland.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:44
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Or required roadside assistance, or filled up their petrol tank
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Oct 14, 2020 02:25
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