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Crumbskull posted:Explore beet powder, its whay I use in my 'black pudding' ew beets
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Nov 3, 2020 17:54
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That insects feel 'pain' is debateable but even so i personally believe thay eatinf insects for protein is going to become a necessary evil within fifty years
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Nov 3, 2020 17:55
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humans can live without eating animals, fact. raising animals greatly contributes to global warming and destruction of the environment, fact. I don’t argue about it with friends in real life, my take is basically you’re selfish and you’re fine with animals suffering if you eat meat. also our grocery bill went down as well anyone who says eating vegan is expensive doesn’t know what they’re talking about
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Nov 3, 2020 17:55
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Do it ironically posted:humans can live without eating animals, fact. raising animals greatly contributes to global warming and destruction of the environment, fact. I don't eat meat, but merely existing as a human being requires the killing of animals, even if it's just insects as a result of farming there's also definitely parts of the world where killing animals is required for survival, like the arctic
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Nov 3, 2020 17:56
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actionjackson posted:I don't eat meat, but merely existing as a human being requires the killing of animals, even if it's just insects as a result of farming I can’t stop all harm, therefore there is no point in reducing harm
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Nov 3, 2020 17:58
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just because you can’t solve everything doesn’t mean you shouldn’t solve anything why is this always the argument against veganism 
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Nov 3, 2020 17:58
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Do it ironically posted:just because you can’t solve everything doesn’t mean you shouldn’t solve anything why is this always the argument against veganism people like eating meat and cheese so they find silly ways to rationalize it
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Nov 3, 2020 18:00
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gay_crimes posted:I can’t stop all harm, therefore there is no point in reducing harm mainly just replying to "humans can live without eating animals" veganism is very easy in certain parts of the world. others not so much. I also don't like the absolutism a lot of vegans employ, I reduce a lot of harm by not eating meat, but well I have dairy every so often. that means vegans won't attack vegetarians right? lol
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Nov 3, 2020 18:02
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actionjackson posted:did you miss the last few posts, insects also can feel pain I don't think capacity to feel pain is a helpful way look at it
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Nov 3, 2020 18:06
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actionjackson posted:I don't eat meat, but merely existing as a human being requires the killing of animals, even if it's just insects as a result of farming Well someone doesn't know the most common definition of veganism
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Nov 3, 2020 18:20
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Also I don't get this obsession meat-eaters have with wanting to eat insects. There are no problems with getting protein on a plant-based diet, it's a myth that you have to eat animals to get proteins.
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Nov 3, 2020 18:24
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Sarah Taber, who is a hack, once blocked me for mocking her for saying that veganism is privilaged because indiginous people who live in marginal mountain environments without arable land historically use goat/sheep ag to survive so by extension it was imperialist to question industrial animal agriculture lmao
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Nov 3, 2020 18:27
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Bot 02 posted:Also I don't get this obsession meat-eaters have with wanting to eat insects. There are no problems with getting protein on a plant-based diet, it's a myth that you have to eat animals to get proteins. actrually a lot of people at the UN (and elsewhere) who study food systems and advocate for primarily plant based diets believe that climate change is very likely to mean that insect ag as a source of protein is going to be neccesary before the end of the century
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Nov 3, 2020 18:28
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Bot 02 posted:Well someone doesn't know the most common definition of veganism I've met vegans that are all over the map some are total absolutists some think honey is fine some think certain non-vegan material like wool is fine (I don't see the issue with wool either) do you have an objection to people living in parts of the world where eating or using animal products is necessary for survival?
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Nov 3, 2020 18:28
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also lmfao if you include 'how vegans act' in your decision making calculus re: ethical eating. the argument 'vegans are annoying/have attacked me so I reject the argument that a plant based diet is more ethical' is something that a child would think haha
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Nov 3, 2020 18:31
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'AH HA, so you say its unethical not to be vegan but THAT means you are judging the Masai! Checkmate.' *continues eating chemical industrial animal agriculture products in the United States of America*
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Nov 3, 2020 18:32
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Hell Is Other Vegans but that doesn;t make veganism wrong
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Nov 3, 2020 18:33
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Bot 02 posted:There are no problems with getting protein on a plant-based diet, it's a myth that you have to eat animals to get proteins. Beans. Beans. Beans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76XklHNzWx0&t=14s Beans. Beans.
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Nov 3, 2020 18:35
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there is some decent scientific evidence that some plants have biological processes that recognize harm and can communicate danger amongst each other.
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Nov 3, 2020 18:38
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actionjackson posted:I've met vegans that are all over the map Well, the most common definition which I and most vegans I've met subscribe to is the definition laid out by The Vegan Society: "Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals." Honey and wool aren't vegan, and the animals are often harmed as consequence of their production.
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Nov 3, 2020 18:39
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is whether wool gathering harms the animal actually relevant? if it's just about the principle of not using animal products, then it doesn't really matter does it? "In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."' so killing animals if it's necessary for survival is perfectly fine then? actionjackson has issued a correction as of 18:46 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 18:43
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also it always seemed a bit of rules lawyering to say that yeast is vegan but coral is not vegan
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Nov 3, 2020 18:48
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lmao at people that buy their food from the grocery store cooking up hypothetical scenarios that they will never be in to justify factory farming
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Nov 3, 2020 18:48
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Trabisnikof posted:there is some decent scientific evidence that some plants have biological processes that recognize harm and can communicate danger amongst each other. yes but none of that is anything related to consciousness. it's more like a whoopie cushion making a fart noise when you sit on it of course science journalism is absolutely useless at reporting this sort of stuff PLANTS SCREAM IN THE FACE OF STRESS
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Nov 3, 2020 18:48
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baw posted:yes but none of that is anything related to consciousness. it's more like a whoopie cushion making a fart noise when you sit on it but coral isn't more conscious than yeast yet one is vegan and the other isn't. i just think rules lawyering at the edge of these spaces is funny.
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Nov 3, 2020 18:54
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actionjackson posted:is whether wool gathering harms the animal actually relevant? if it's just about the principle of not using animal products, then it doesn't really matter does it? "as far as is possible and practicable"
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Nov 3, 2020 18:55
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Trabisnikof posted:but coral isn't more conscious than yeast yet one is vegan and the other isn't. its biology so there are always going to be grey areas but i havent read anything about coral being "conscious" in the cambridge declaration sense
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Nov 3, 2020 18:56
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baw posted:its biology so there are always going to be grey areas but i havent read anything about coral being "conscious" in the cambridge declaration sense that's my point. but because coral is considered an animal it isn't vegan and since yeast is considered a fungus it is. like a talking fungus would be vegan to eat under some definitions and a brain dead human could be freegan under some definitions and that's funny
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Nov 3, 2020 18:56
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but if you don’t eat cows they’ll go extinct, how could you do that to cows!! *eats mcdonald burder farmed in Brazilian rainforest which has decimated animal species*
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Nov 3, 2020 18:59
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I gotta be honest, when it comes to irrelevant edge cases I have actually never heard the "what about corals" one before.
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Nov 3, 2020 19:04
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whoa dude it's like plants are vegan but if they had brains they wouldnt be... did vegans ever thing so of this?!!? very fascinating conversation. much complexity.
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Nov 3, 2020 19:05
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fortunately it's pretty easy to avoid eating coral and sea sponges and jellyfish
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Nov 3, 2020 19:06
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FacelessVoid posted:whoa dude it's like plants are vegan but if they had brains they wouldnt be... did vegans ever thing so of this?!!? very fascinating conversation. much complexity. under the definition provided by the Vegan society cooking and eating treebeard as he begs you not to do it would still be vegan. i find these sorts of silly questions far more interesting than debating about insects for pages but ymmv (your meal may vary) baw posted:fortunately it's pretty easy to avoid eating coral and sea sponges and jellyfish well and more importantly wearing coral jewelry is bad even if it was technically ok according to the vegan society.
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Nov 3, 2020 19:11
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baw posted:"as far as is possible and practicable" yeah I saw that, that would mean that people who are living almost completely carnivorous lifestyles due to need could actually be considered vegans, which is pretty hilarious
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Nov 3, 2020 19:12
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baw posted:fortunately it's pretty easy to avoid eating coral and sea sponges and jellyfish Not for much longer
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Nov 3, 2020 19:20
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Trabisnikof posted:under the definition provided by the Vegan society cooking and eating treebeard as he begs you not to do it would still be vegan. the thing is that if you find the coral dead (since the "coral" part is like a skeleton of a dead thing or something i dont know) you arent actually contributing to animal suffering by using it alsoif you have leather stuff from before you were vegan it doesnt make a difference to throw it out. or if you eat a cheeseburger you find in the garbage there isn't really any ethical problem since youre not creating demand for animal goods. creating the economic demand is where the damage is really done
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Nov 3, 2020 19:26
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veganism started from the principle of do the least harm. not only eat XYZ foods no matter what. don't worry about satisfying someone else's rules and just follow your conscience. it's not complicated.
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Nov 3, 2020 19:30
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Questions for vegans: Can you eat accidentally dead animals, like road kill? Can you eat animals with no brain, like molluscs or coral? Can you eat a plant that literally screams in pain when you touch it? What if that plant had a brain? Can you eat a robot that perfectly mimics an animal, but is not sentient? What if that robot is a replicant? If a trolley is rolling uncontrollably down a track and its going to kill one human, but you can pull the lever and it will go down another track and it will kill 5 cows, do you pull the lever? Same question, but one track has 1 cow and the other has 100 corn plants that scream (but dont have a brain) I think your answers will reveal that veganism is a rationally incoherent position.
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Nov 3, 2020 19:33
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Toningly posted:Questions for vegans: pls dont trigger me
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Nov 3, 2020 19:35
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| # ? May 21, 2024 07:17 |
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Toningly posted:Questions for vegans: Checkmate veganailures 
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Nov 3, 2020 19:37
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