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Bot 02 posted:
Utilitarianism, I guess? Like, I think raising a few chickens for eggs is fine, the chickens get vet care and regular food/shelter, so -- if you project a standard human emotional/experiential framework on animals -- they live happier lives than they would in the wild. And there are situations where we've altered the ecosystem so badly that hunting arguably becomes a net good (deer in New England, for example, no longer have natural predators, and have gone through really lovely boom-bust cycles that lead to mass deaths from starvation/disease/parasitism). You could reintroduce predators, or manage the deer population with contraceptives, but that involves making other judgment calls that about what animals think or want that I'm not sure we really have coherent answers for. I think I just really struggle with non-interventionist vegan philosophy and I would be interested in hearing other people's perspectives on this.
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Nov 11, 2020 17:01
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| # ¿ May 20, 2024 23:53 |
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FacelessVoid posted:Do you think that hen is oblivious to you stealing and eating it's young? Maybe? Have you ever raised chickens? Or lived around feral chickens? They eat eggs. I'm honestly not sure whether they care if you take their own eggs. FacelessVoid posted:Why not just take care of it and not steal it's young when you don't need to eat an egg? Because you'll be overrun with chickens if you don't take the eggs and those chickens won't lead good lives. You can outsource the eventual pain and killing to nature. You can intervene and slaughter animals "humanely". Or you can just not raise animals at all, and (I guess) ignore or rationalize the suffering of wild animals. I hope this doesn't sound dismissive. I should mention I'm an insect behavioral geneticist and I've spent a lot of time thinking and writing about insect cognition. The species I study right now is a fly that lays its eggs in the wounds of deer, pigs, rabbits, sometimes people, sometimes dogs. The larvae burrow into the flesh of their hosts and eat them alive. The hosts die without veterinary intervention. I don't need to be convinced that animals have complex emotional lives, let alone the ability to feel pain. What I don't buy is the idea that animals are necessarily worse off on farms than they would be in the wild, even if you kill them before the end of their "natural" (read: artificial, captive) lifespan, even if you feel guilty about it. Nature is brutal!
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Nov 11, 2020 19:37
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Do it ironically posted:the whole reason they’re on the farm is to exploit and then kill them your hypothetical animals wouldn’t even exist if people didn’t eat/exploit animals I’m not sure what you’re getting at, are you saying it’s human’s burden to continue to propagate man made animal species? I mean, if the farmer just farmed plants there wouldn’t be animals to have it slightly better than being in the wild, which they wouldn’t be because they’re specifically bred breeds of species I wouldn't say it's our burden, exactly, but I think you can make a convincing utilitarian argument for (limited) animal agriculture and hunting. Like, I think backyard chickens can pretty easily lead better lives than wild chickens, even after you factor in egg stealing and slaughter. This is kind of an academic discussion given the current hideous reality of industrial farming, though, and I'm sorry if it comes off as concern-trolly. In the real world, for most people, veganism is the right choice. Do people have any thoughts about the social elements of veganism? It was really easy for me to eat vegetarian before the COVID pandemic because 80% of my social group was vegetarian/vegan, so we'd all just cook vegan meals for each other with dairy add-ins. I struggle with not eating meat on my own and I really miss the (mild) social pressure of those communal meals.
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Nov 11, 2020 20:54
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IAMKOREA posted:what's a wild chicken. there aren't any wild birds that lay an egg a day. They were all over the place in Hawaii and they liked to lay (and later eat) eggs in buckets in our backyard. IAMKOREA posted:edit: this is a really dumb post given that i'm not a vegan and don't actually give a gently caress if someone eats backyard chicken eggs/chickens (but gently caress factory farms) lol no worries. gently caress a factory farm
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Nov 11, 2020 21:00
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endlessmonotony posted:Cows know they've lost a friend when one's slaughtered, and that's what got a farm boy questioning his way of life real hard. Did you know that if you rear male cockroaches in isolation, they develop signs of what we'd consider depression, including a lack of interest in sex?
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Nov 13, 2020 23:16
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| # ¿ May 20, 2024 23:53 |
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I'm just going to talk about bugs now. Ask me about eating bugs or whatever. Did you know some wasps recognize faces?
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Nov 13, 2020 23:17
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