THE VEGAN MEGATHREAD

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > THE VEGAN MEGATHREAD

PERPETUAL IDIOT: Sep 12, 2003

endlessmonotony posted:

It absolutely is. Where I am, grains are cheap and plentiful, as are root vegetables, but legumes are real expensive.

Nah, veganism started from the principle of "I absolutely can't deal with killing animals and neither should anyone else". Look it up if you care. It wasn't even possible to survive as a vegan before 1955. Veganism is new, unlike vegetarianism, because we've been eating animals for five hundred thousand years but it turns out that while we don't have the bits to be vegan doesn't mean we have to kill the animals to get what we need. It's that complex stomach anatomy of ruminants that plays the biggest role here... well, that and famines.

The cleanest way I've ever seen a diet summarized was "I don't eat anything with eyes". I point out inconsistencies with skill and dedication and even I couldn't pick that one apart.

I, too, point out inconsistencies with skill and dedication. I'm a true master, in the art of debating online.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2020 23:23

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 01:54

PERPETUAL IDIOT: Sep 12, 2003

Crumbskull posted:

i wrote my bachelor's capstone paper on the fascist/nazi roots in the organic farming movement and was almost excommunicated from my sustainable ag program lmao

I'd be interested in looking into this - is there a book that provides a solid overview?

# ¿ Nov 4, 2020 01:12

PERPETUAL IDIOT: Sep 12, 2003

endlessmonotony posted:

Veganism involves not killing animals for our food, including insects.

It doesn't take any soybeans at all to produce beef, but that's irrelevant either way, because a primarily plant-based diet is still less resource-intensive than factory farming meat.

However the way we produce plants involves a lot of death of things that would also rather like to eat our food, as well as the insects that help produce that food. Things bigger than insects can be dealt with humanely in most cases. Bugs? Not so much. We need to kill bugs. We need to kill a lot of bugs.

Also it's not just pure calories there's a lot of cases where we need animal parts and byproducts to manufacture food and medication. Byproducts-only diet is possible. Synthetic diet allows us to go all animal sources free for healthy people. But there's a lot of work to be done.

As far as I'm aware, no vegans advocate a diet or lifestyle absolutely free of killing animals in the way you suggest is necessary. You've made up something new and are telling people that they're advocating for it.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2020 22:43

PERPETUAL IDIOT: Sep 12, 2003

endlessmonotony posted:

Then you're not very aware.

I mean I get it's probably like lesbians in the UK on trans issues, but jesus loving almighty are the ecofash out there.

Can you point me to someone who is, then? I suspect anyone advocating for veganism absolutely free of harming animals in every way whatsoever would have to immediately stop breathing (lest they swallow a gnat) and die within a minute or two, so it might be tough for you.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2020 22:47

PERPETUAL IDIOT: Sep 12, 2003

endlessmonotony posted:

Only people you'd dismiss as fringe quacks.

Which should probably stir your memory a little, especially since I've made it repeatedly clear I'm visibly disabled.

No? Ok.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2020 22:51

PERPETUAL IDIOT: Sep 12, 2003

endlessmonotony posted:

You're sending me to go find a shaggy dog with your demand for links to opinions of people who you can then dismiss as fringe opinions, or to use my refusal to waste my time as an argument against my character.

Instead provide me a reasoning why it's okay to kill insects for protecting our plants in industrial agriculture but not okay to kill insects to eat directly, while keeping it about the animals.

Let's look at the definition posted earlier in this thread:

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude�as far as is possible and practicable�all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

So the argument would be that it's not "possible and practicable" to avoid killing insects when farming plants, but is "possible and practicable" to avoid killing insects to eat directly.

Now will you find me some people making the claims you're ascribing to veganism? Be specific, don't point to the construction and tone of arguments tossed against you in this thread.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2020 23:11

PERPETUAL IDIOT: Sep 12, 2003

endlessmonotony posted:

This is just lazy, the flip is obvious.

You're using an undefined "possible and practicable" that means whatever you want for it to as your arguments, and by that argument it's trivial to justify ruminant consumption - they eat grasses we don't and produce milk that's rich in b12 which otherwise creates a bottleneck easy to exploit for both profit and warfare.

So, vegans eat beef. And by that standard, I was wrong all along.

No. It's "possible and practicable" to not eat beef and still be perfectly fine. Probably a billion or so people exist as proof that this is true.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2020 23:17

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 01:54

PERPETUAL IDIOT: Sep 12, 2003

endlessmonotony posted:

By not using the ruminants for food you're wasting calories you could harvest, thus needing more land to exploit for agriculture and thus causing suffering to animals inhabiting wild ecosystems.

But that's not what you said.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2020 23:21

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > THE VEGAN MEGATHREAD