|
Duzzy Funlop posted:So employers can just casually monitor all activities on employee's computers in the US, wfh or not? If you're on an employer owned asset it's quite easy, you can make it a condition of employment or use of the device. Where it gets thorny is if the company can't afford or won't justify the expense of providing work laptops to WFH employees and just say "hey extend BYOD to people's personal computers", and then try to install spyware on your home PC to monitor work productivity because they were too cheap to pay for laptops. Pretty sure there are legal restrictions regarding this, I know it makes corporate legal departments break out in a cold sweat.
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 15:37 |
|
|
i am a moron posted:Once again I might be getting a bit myopic here, but there are way more stakeholders in that than some middle managers in an ops division/team/whatever. The largest companies would require a huge number of reviews to implement something like this, and they aren't going to overcome legal reviews by complaining they can't monitor people closely enough. HR departments tend to be okay with legal things that aren't breaking anything resembling new ground. If it's something established that can be taught in a brief lecture, they tend to be good. If it can be summed up on a poster, they will probably get it. If it can be copy and pasted into the employee handbook, then you have to hope what they are copying and pasting from is current. Once you start going out of that space, it's the same danger that lots of lay people have with the law. When it comes to asking them if something like a reasonable expectation of privacy exists, I wouldn't touch their answer with a ten-foot pole. That's safely into territory where consulting with a lawyer before is much cheaper than needing them later. Because loving up this gets you into felony territory quickly. It's not a complex technical challenge. At the OS level built in webcams are just USB devices. So pretty much anything that can capture video be used for this. I picked iSpy because it's free and open source but not licenced for this kind of application. Thus it falls into the perfect example of someone hacking together a half-assed solution that meets a budget of free. And working around the licencing by using a script to upload it to onedrive would be the kind of smug poo poo an IT manager who signs off on this stupidity would do. But you could homebrew something with OBS. And the versions of this designed to catch cheating spouses is surprisingly cheap. Doing it right would be pricey but the kind of managers who want this are the same kinds of people think half rear end is good enough is too much work.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:07
|
|
|
Defenestrategy posted:WFH doesn't mean use your personal computer. I didn't mean to imply that this would only be a problem in case a private computer was being monitored, I guess my post wasn't framed incredulous enough.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
orange juche posted:"hey extend BYOD to people's personal computers" This would suck so hard, and you'd probably get the IT Department to resign if you suggest it, at an enterprise IT level it means you'll have to support memaw in accountings 300$ POS with 5000 Internet Explorer add-ins, animated cursors, and all the bloatware in the world.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:12
|
|
|
if i was an IT guy i would absolutely not want to work for a company where people use personal laptops. i spent one day in the IT office getting stuff fixed and the amount of stupid poo poo they have to deal with is incredible. and i work for a relatively small company. "why isn;t my password working?"  "you should be trying to log in with your pin number""ok how do i do that?" "you enter your pin number when prompted""ok now it's saying wrong password" "that's because you changed it back to password mode instead of pin""but you told me to enter my pin. can i just reset my password?"
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:14
|
|
|
Woofer posted:if i was an IT guy i would absolutely not want to work for a company where people use personal laptops. i spent one day in the IT office getting stuff fixed and the amount of stupid poo poo they have to deal with is incredible. and i work for a relatively small company. BYOD is getting more and more common, especially with consulting firms becoming more and more common in big Dev shops.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:16
|
|
|
Duzzy Funlop posted:I didn't mean to imply that this would only be a problem in case a private computer was being monitored, I guess my post wasn't framed incredulous enough. If its a company owned resource, the company can do with it as they please. That includes monitoring everything you do with it. The questions are coming up regarding their legal ability to turn on the camera or mic(this ranges from hilariously illegal to barely legal but with insane vulnerability to a lawsuit) And if your employer is recording your on camera, have a naked toddler run into the room and be quickly dealt with. Now their recording of you is potentially CP while not loving off at work to use against you
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:20
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:BYOD is getting more and more common, especially with consulting firms becoming more and more common in big Dev shops. I know BYOD is getting common for phones to an extent, but I couldn't imagine allowing a security hole that big unless all the stuff you work on is cloud hosted stuff where that kind of network security doesn't particularly mean anything.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:23
|
|
|
Office 365 has the surveillance built in: https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-365s-productivity-score-its-a-full-blown-workplace-surveillance-tool-says-critic/
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:24
|
|
|
Defenestrategy posted:I know BYOD is getting common for phones to an extent, but I couldn't imagine allowing a security hole that big unless all the stuff you work on is cloud hosted stuff where network security doesn't particularly mean anything. you would be surprised the number of businesses that are doing the majority of their work through https and ssh. I've worked for a couple in the past 5 years that were all remote with no VPN. They did provide us with the gear tho, and it did come with a monitoring provision in the AUP.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:24
|
|
|
Defenestrategy posted:I know BYOD is getting common for phones to an extent, but I couldn't imagine allowing a security hole that big unless all the stuff you work on is cloud hosted stuff where that kind of network security doesn't particularly mean anything. I mean, you don't. Most newer Firewall, IPS, and VPN systems have BYOD policy enforcement for network segmentation and BYOD specific rules. That or you enforce it through an internal VPN connector that limits their connection only to the environments they need.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:27
|
|
Midjack posted:Office 365 has the surveillance built in: https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-365s-productivity-score-its-a-full-blown-workplace-surveillance-tool-says-critic/ As someone who works on this all the time, I think this is overblown unless you’re tracking productivity via O365 noise. It’s basically spreadsheets of who sent the most emails or Teams messages. A lot of it is driven towards worker productivity in terms of mental health. I get an email every week showing who I collaborate with, how often I get bugged during quiet hours, and Cortana helpfully blocks off my calendar in between meetings and marks me as busy
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:28
|
|
|
I can’t use my own device to check my email anymore. I used to be able to but they changed our security policy with some windows update and now I can’t. And I’m glad of it tbh.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:28
|
|
|
i am a moron posted:As someone who works on this all the time, I think this is overblown unless you’re tracking productivity via O365 noise. It’s basically spreadsheets of who sent the most emails or Teams messages. That's the upside, or at least how they will try put lipstick on it to sell the feature. The other side of it is call center and other hourly workers having business processes contained entirely in an O365 environment (including pass through auth to browsers) so a manager can try to turn peoples' jobs into pie charts.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:37
|
|
|
Right now the only time I log into the VPN is to update the password for my domain account.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:39
|
|
|
i think the working class has been beaten down and taken advantage of so much that there is no upside to an employer doing anything against employees, even if it doesn't affect most people. stop sticking up for corporations. if you want productivity to go up, give people a reason to be productive instead of big brother. pay people more, and pay more people. stop grinding us into dust and finding ways to continue grinding us into dust.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:39
|
|
|
I'm sure agrarian tribal societies also had an equally huge per capita brutality rate. Phase 1 of society managed to solve enough food scarcity that we toned back on the war and slaughter just a tad, and that's been the throughline of most of history. I'm sure back then you had people mad that those farming tribe were eating better than your *~warrior clan~* too. And now its the same impetus that makes people not want that other generic person not to have free college or good internet. We gotta build a system which stops people from being dicks for long enough for most people to change from experiencing the benefits.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:42
|
|
|
Guys IDK if you know this but the managers don't wanna put on loving pants and quit smoking on the job, either.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:45
|
|
|
Wasabi the J posted:Guys IDK if you know this but the managers don't wanna put on loving pants and quit smoking on the job, either. I dunno, the number of managers bemoaning that they can't "Manage you" remotely is skyrocketing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 21:52
|
|
|
One time during a 2 week field problem my boss sent me back 3 hours into it to get some stuff for the unit. When I got the stuff they wanted I just sent it out on a LOGPAC and never went back myself. I pretty much worked from home the whole time the rest of my unit was in the field. Easily the most productive 2 weeks I had in the Army. I think the only reason my boss never asked me why the gently caress I never came back was because of all the poo poo I was able to get done, mostly because I had nobody around to pester me with dumb poo poo. I ended up going out for like an hour towards the end of the field problem and the first thing my boss said to me was "what are you doing out here?". I was definitely a shitbag but at least I got stuff done. That experience plus all the working from home due to the pandemic has made me determined to find work in a field that lets me either completely or mostly work from home.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 22:13
|
|
|
Burt posted:Someone ought to point out to the anti-vaxxers that if you put the 5g mind control nanobots in "insert your nearest fast food establishment" ketchup they'd be hosed already. Because vaccines help people and these people revel in human misery
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 22:16
|
|
|
Doc Hawkins posted:this is the golden age of WFH. what's coming is a normalization of continuous employer surveillance of your computer, up to and including cameras and microphones. Yeah  This is our last best chance at normalizing wfh and saving a shitton on emissions and these greedy, hateful pieces of poo poo are going to make it so unpalatable it's going to torpedo it for all of us
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 22:20
|
|
|
i am a moron posted:Lots of companies/industries have been predominantly WFH for ages and don't do that. I have a hard time imagining companies are looking at productivity boosts and their shrinking overhead and thinking they need to do anything about it. You also get into liability concerns a lot of companies aren't about to touch. Surveilling someone at home is a huge can of worms in that regard. This is from a page or two ago but  . Companies are always looking for ways to completely gently caress up anything positive as long as it shits on the workers. That's management, baby.As for webcam monitoring at home, I wouldn't doubt it for a moment. The largest of large corps would probably have enough red tape and other nonsense to prevent it, but some idiot middle manager who can no longer walk around to look over everyone's shoulder is getting withdrawal symptoms from not being able to be a controlling shitstain, and this new Also lest we forget schools tried that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 22:45
|
|
|
All of you worrying about your managers spying on you should check out what college students have to go through these days. Apps like Proctorio record audio video and system processes and memory for your professors to review later, as well as eye tracking and other motion. I’ve gotten lucky so far but I’ve seen some other professors at my uni have sent out emails threatening to fail people for cheating if their eyes move away from the screen too much or they resize their browsers.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 23:03
|
|
|
Hey, while we’re hating on capital and managers, here’s one we haven’t talked about yet: https://twitter.com/business/status/1326825079649542150?s=20 The official bank of the Trump crime family thinks that more taxes heaped upon one group of workers to provide a whopping $1,500 grant to others is a great idea! Wow!
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 23:13
|
|
Zamujasa posted:This is from a page or two ago but I’m part of the middle management at my company and I don’t do that at least and my company doesn’t either. Which might be part of the problem with me understanding this, I dunno. Ive read some wild poo poo on SA about people and their companies so maybe it’s not as uncommon as I think. I feel bad for anyone who has to work in the kinds of environments that are being suggested here.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 23:13
|
|
|
Internet Wizard posted:All of you worrying about your managers spying on you should check out what college students have to go through these days. Apps like Proctorio record audio video and system processes and memory for your professors to review later, as well as eye tracking and other motion. I’ve gotten lucky so far but I’ve seen some other professors at my uni have sent out emails threatening to fail people for cheating if their eyes move away from the screen too much or they resize their browsers. Yeah I've heard about that from some of my Grad school friends.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 23:16
|
|
|
Thank god I graduated at the end of 2018.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 23:17
|
|
|
i am a moron posted:I’m part of the middle management at my company and I don’t do that at least and my company doesn’t either. Which might be part of the problem with me understanding this, I dunno. Ive read some wild poo poo on SA about people and their companies so maybe it’s not as uncommon as I think. I feel bad for anyone who has to work in the kinds of environments that are being suggested here. I was the top tech rep at a call center by literally every metric they tracked and a middle manager tried to cut my pay down to entry level (I was getting top billing since I was the top performer) because my response to the question "What are you doing to improve your stats?" was "Nothing, i'm the best. I am giving this company very good service for the pay they are giving me."
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 23:19
|
|
|
"don't bite the hand that feeds, and you never get fed from the bottom." -management strategy in the US
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 23:21
|
|
|
Internet Wizard posted:All of you worrying about your managers spying on you should check out what college students have to go through these days. Apps like Proctorio record audio video and system processes and memory for your professors to review later, as well as eye tracking and other motion. I’ve gotten lucky so far but I’ve seen some other professors at my uni have sent out emails threatening to fail people for cheating if their eyes move away from the screen too much or they resize their browsers. Sorry, getting flashbacks to grad statistics circa 2 years ago.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 23:23
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/brahmresnik/status/1333535859153440769?s=19 Arizona and Wisconsin went final. I can only imagine the panicked Donnie on the other end of that line.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 23:37
|
|
|
AHHAHAHAHA, goddamn, I wonder what he was going to offer / threaten him with to stop him from signing. Fuckin' hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 23:51
|
|
|
I hope trump sees that video and blows a gasket
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2020 23:52
|
|
|
facialimpediment posted:https://twitter.com/brahmresnik/status/1333535859153440769?s=19 Can't really hear it on my speakers God it's hard to believe it's still November
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2020 00:05
|
|
|
Internet Wizard posted:All of you worrying about your managers spying on you should check out what college students have to go through these days. Apps like Proctorio record audio video and system processes and memory for your professors to review later, as well as eye tracking and other motion. I’ve gotten lucky so far but I’ve seen some other professors at my uni have sent out emails threatening to fail people for cheating if their eyes move away from the screen too much or they resize their browsers. I attribute this to the fact that a lot of professors are too lazy to write a decent test every time they want to test students. Most of my grad school classes were open whatever. Trying to find info on the internet when you have a time limit does not make a well written test easier. Undergrad might be a little more tricky since there's more rote memorization but maybe its time we move on from that?
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2020 00:13
|
|
|
Education is incredibly boring and I don’t think it is necessarily an adolescent’s fault that they don’t want to pay attention, especially if it is a virtual environment. There’s obviously some personal responsibility but education in this country really sucks. The rabbit hole I’m going down ends at the obvious: give public schools more resources and pay teachers substantially more, and also supply them with the basic poo poo they need. If I’m making $35k/year and I still have to buy my own school supplies you’re probably not going to get the best out of me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2020 00:36
|
|
|
pantslesswithwolves posted:Hey, while we’re hating on capital and managers, here’s one we haven’t talked about yet: Dear Deutsche Bank, Suck my gently caress. Signed, Someone who works at home
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2020 00:39
|
|
|
I had a teacher tell the class it was an "Open Source" test. "Did you say open source?" "Yep" He meant open book, and I was the only one who googled the hard answers. When I told him, he laughed, and said I deserved the grade for outsmarting the system.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2020 00:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 15:37 |
|
|
not caring here posted:AHHAHAHAHA, goddamn, I wonder what he was going to offer / threaten him with to stop him from signing. Mean tweets. https://twitter.com/JacobRubashkin/status/1333557712626593792
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2020 00:52
|
|