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For some, high school is a great part of their lives. But high school is a poo poo time for a lot of people. For me, it was pretty bad. I was bright, but not athletic. We moved to a new, insular town when I was in middle school and I went from being weird but popular to weird and unpopular. It sucked. In fact, my first day of school I saw a bunch of girls talking, and then one of them asked me if I wanted to go out with one of the others, and I said yes. They laughed, it was a test, and I failed. Numerous incidents followed, and I became a pariah. Little did I know then that this is the social hierarchy working itself out. After barely skimming this articled I've reinforced my conclusion that the aggression and hostility are a natural part of determining who gets the most desirable mates. But oddly enough, for many, this behavior continues for the rest of our lives, even after we've partnered up. Why wear a Rolex when a Timex will do? It's status. Social status is similar to power, although I'm not sure they're exactly the same thing. It's basically how important you are to society. This is why many people ask what you do when they meet you. They want to know how they are positioned relative to you in the social hierarchy. Is it more appropriate to be submissive, or dominant? I was not raised to recognize this and it's an alien worldview to me, so I have a hard time wrapping my mind around it, but it is real. For example, I specifically remember a few years ago having a customer get upset with me for not "showing respect". He went on and on about how he was an important lawyer and had important clients, and I was treating him like anyone else? How dare I! I was friendly and polite, but as casual as I am with everyone, and this drove him insane. I never understood why he got so upset until recently. Much of this is probably not news to anyone here, but what I do want to explore is how this overlaps with politics, specifically left/right divide. I'm beginning to suspect that to people who value status, life is primariliy a competition and these people will tend to be more right leaning. Meanwhile, the opposite would be true of those that don't value status, I think they would tend to view life as primarily cooperative, and be somewhat puzzled by the popularity of, say, a Trump. I'd also like to discuss how to realistically address bullying in schools, because all the slogans in the world won't fix something odd about someone's appearance or ability and the seemingly natural tendency to harass that person. Or anything else that pops up, really. 
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Nov 2, 2020 08:44
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| # ? May 3, 2024 00:16 |
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I grew up on a remote farm in the middle of nowhere with an incredibly abusive family and didn't see anyone my age much less form any friendships outside of the people I met in school. The isolation severely hosed up my development, combined with spending 8 years with a physical deformity because my parents didn't want to pay for getting it fixed, permanently hosed me up for life - the bullying was just a multiplier on top of everything else. I honestly don't know how you fix it. I understand it, sure, because as a bully you pick on the weird, different kid, to grow your status on the social ladder, but thinking from the perspective of a potential educator, it's sort of impossible to consider how you even begin to counter that, much less what your goal is in such a situation. Truth be told, teachers don't get paid enough to unfuck a situation like that, and they can't really begin to care, and when it came to certain teachers I encountered in my upbringing, they ended up joining in so they could reap the social capital from the other kids in the class picking on the odd one out.
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Nov 2, 2020 09:02
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Without bullying how else will children learn not to be gaywads? I ask you
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Nov 2, 2020 12:33
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Fluoride Jones posted:Without bullying how else will children learn not to be gaywads? I ask you  Also sorry about the quality of the OP my brains isn't what they used to were
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Nov 2, 2020 12:55
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I'm having a hard time defining "social status". It's not exactly wealth, but it might be closest to power. High-status individuals tend to have at least some control over others. Again this is linked to your choice in quality of mates, but assuming one is in already in a monogamous relationship and not willing to cheat, it doesn't seem like something that would be very useful? Celebrities might be a good example. An uncommitted celebrity has a lot of options for sex and is in a sort of ideal situation if that is important to them. Now, think about a person that is married, monogamous, and has no intention of cheating... what's the point of pursuing status? Is image that important to people? I genuinely am trying to wonder.
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Nov 3, 2020 12:11
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it only took five posts to get from 'bullying is a problem' to 'incel rights', not quite a record but definitely a strong showing only vaguely related, but this is a pretty funny read: 'The Feminist' by Tony Tulathimutte
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Nov 3, 2020 12:16
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:it only took five posts to get from 'bullying is a problem' to 'incel rights', not quite a record but definitely a strong showing the gently caress?
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Nov 3, 2020 15:09
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When I was in hs had a dude call me a human being and I sent him to the hospital and no one called me human being again. Violence isn't the answer but it's the closest approximation 
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Nov 3, 2020 15:53
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The whole of material circumstances dictate the reality of the society based of those circumstances, or in other words, "ideology" because capitalism is an alienating system, its modes of oppression become diffuse and opaque, but not less brutal; as material abundance is denied to the many, they start to alienate from each other, seeing their sibling in humanity as someone who prevents them of having greater resources to their disposal; the immigrant steals jobs; to be strange and/or queer is to be weak, so you better chin up and use straight pants or else
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Nov 3, 2020 16:07
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if you're in high school I suggest playing sports and a cool instrument like the guitar or the drums. worked for me, op
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Nov 3, 2020 16:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eM4KmN5c4I Forget about the loving bullying! I made the mistake of focusing on that instead of what I really want to talk about which is SOCIAL. HIERARCHY. Why would someone want to seem important or powerful outside of sex? That's really it, that's the question. I don't get it.
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Nov 4, 2020 08:59
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hierarchy is bullshit i read a study somewhere that if you get behind in social development as a child, that can snowball and get you further and further behind. the reason why i graduated from being a loser to highschool to being cool was because of the work my guidance chancellor did for me. i'm a mess as an adult but I can be charming to people who aren't my family. it's tough op, kids are socipathic and express power in social situations in order to climb hierarchies by pushing others down. this isn't a matter of capitalism but of human nature. what needs to be done is create a support system and hegemonic ideology that let bullied children socially rebound. it's impossible in america, even our leftists adore cruelty and call for the bullying of people who could be reached out to politically. all the progress we made providing saftey for lgbt kids will be wiped out in the second trump term.
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Nov 4, 2020 09:09
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Extensive Vamping posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eM4KmN5c4I every action is a zero-sum transaction, being ahead in hiearchy mean you are taking value from someone else and wining. it's an attitude for 4 year olds.
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Nov 4, 2020 09:10
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i was bullied in school so i became extremely caustic, ironic, shameless, and adopted a 'bored with everything and everyone' demeanor. naturally my social status shot right up, and this filled me with sufficient contempt for my peers (which they adore as long as you're not a slavering basement-dweller-looking ghoul-on-the-outside) to fuel several years of heady edginess until i realized adults hate what kids love. if this approach fails violence is also good but war violence not social-position-jockeying violence. what im saying is bite down on the balls op teenage teabaggus (teabaggi, teabaggister, teabagician, teabagtician, teabaggometrist, teabagtor, teabaggardinal, teabaggresident, teabaggilicuddy) Small Gay Planet has issued a correction as of 09:43 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 09:37
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Extensive Vamping posted:I'm having a hard time defining "social status". It's not exactly wealth, but it might be closest to power. High-status individuals tend to have at least some control over others. Again this is linked to your choice in quality of mates, but assuming one is in already in a monogamous relationship and not willing to cheat, it doesn't seem like something that would be very useful? what is your social ambition op? Commander of Men and Women? Leader of the pack? Certified multi-sexer? The cool child who would be king in the mountain? its all poo poo and poo poo are the people who care for such titles, let me tell you. Those girls were never going to say anything but no to you unless you produced a charming deflection with the right amount of flirtatiousness and self-assured superiority. Remember that confidence is a poor substitute for substance and that inner power which comes from marshaling your spiritual forces is the supreme violence. the empty pursuit of social position will never satisfy - It will inevitably wither and die, forgotten, passing from this world into the vast tomb with your fragile ape-form. Choose a greater ambition than the nebulous adulation of those who know nothing of your inner complexity and capability. Choose your self-satisfaction. Those greatest and most enlightened amongst all humankind (who will by definition never consider themselves as such) will seek self-satisfaction in thankless and unappreciated sacrifice for the unconditional good of others but lets be honest hahahahah op you are not one of those. So, choose a more achievable goal. For example, the goal of giving two handjobs at once to two very attractive penis owners of indeterminate non-binary gender. All else is a secondary trifle next to such unquestionable, inexorable, undeniable destiny. Small Gay Planet has issued a correction as of 09:56 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 09:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY4s8lGctcc
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Nov 4, 2020 10:03
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Extensive Vamping posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eM4KmN5c4I I don't understand how you would not get this. Social power is liquid, it can be changed into whatever one wants. People use it to get to feel good about themselves in whatever ways they feel strongly about. They usually use it in really small-time ways like manipulating the tone that people talk to them with. And others comply because it's no skin off their back and they'd prefer that power to work for them rather than against them if they can help it. Hierarchy is a lever on social power, giving those on top the power to personally enforce their preferred rules through punishment and outcasting rather than have to convince everyone involved about them. Signifiers of position are like a shield that makes most people treat someone very carefully. People who are really into the hierarchical type of social power tend to love the feeling of getting to act with impunity about things that make them feel strongly about, either to punish people who hurt their fee-fees or because they simply enjoy hurting a specific kind of person. Your problem is trying to find a higher rational sense behind how people behave, when they are really hairless apes running on sentiment and short-term good vibes. Reason is the slave of the passions, and social power enables one to short-circuit others' thought processes as well and make them slaves to one's passions.
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Nov 4, 2020 10:11
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Small Gay Planet posted:what is your social ambition op? I don't have one of those? Is that weird? Because people are acting like that's weird and I don't understand. I mean yeah it might be nice to be powerful, or famous, but to what end? Why have your name shouted from the rooftops and carved in the mountains? uncop posted:I don't understand how you would not get this. Social power is liquid, it can be changed into whatever one wants. People use it to get to feel good about themselves in whatever ways they feel strongly about. They usually use it in really small-time ways like manipulating the tone that people talk to them with. And others comply because it's no skin off their back and they'd prefer that power to work for them rather than against them if they can help it. OK, now we're getting somewhere. I don't care about that stuff, but I can understand how others would. Thank you. erosion has issued a correction as of 10:17 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 10:13
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Extensive Vamping posted:I don't have one of those? Is that weird? Because people are acting like that's weird and I don't understand. no the opposite it is actually quite good and i was making fun of you in case you did have one have you heard of this thing it's called ozymandias it was real deep when my college roommate-mentor (A tortured poet r.i.p) took a deep bong hit and spat the Quote, the profundity of which struck like a lightning bolt against my quivering and flabby chest anyway uncop has the right of it listen to him it gets easier when you realize that most people who care for social status are more complex versions of chimpanzees hooting and a-hollering over the size of their respective poop piles Small Gay Planet has issued a correction as of 10:19 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 10:17
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Taintrunner posted:I grew up on a remote farm in the middle of nowhere with an incredibly abusive family and didn't see anyone my age much less form any friendships outside of the people I met in school. The isolation severely hosed up my development, combined with spending 8 years with a physical deformity because my parents didn't want to pay for getting it fixed, permanently hosed me up for life - the bullying was just a multiplier on top of everything else. I honestly don't know how you fix it.  a broken soul confronted with darkness which you lacked the weapons and armor to confront - I weep at the enormity of the injustice, at the crushing of yet another individual under the gears of brutish and callous society. use the chaos of balkanization to break into your bullies' homes and smear poo poo on their walls. Then burn the farm. Small Gay Planet has issued a correction as of 10:31 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 10:29
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Small Gay Planet posted:
No lie, I fantasized about binding and torturing a dude for years after HS. At one point I realized I had to forgive him, not for his sake but my own. But I still feel anger about it from time to time. When Columbine happened, I sort of understood the motivation. e: And btw, that poem owns. I had heard of it but hadn't read it until just now.
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Nov 4, 2020 10:36
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Extensive Vamping posted:No lie, I fantasized about binding and torturing a dude for years after HS. the columbine guys were neo-nazis so no you didn't although, mass shooters are motivated by a social hierarchy that they feel they are entitled to through extreme violence. these tiny apes should stop yelling on this big ball
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Nov 4, 2020 10:39
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miniscule12 posted:the columbine guys were neo-nazis so no you didn't Yeah I know that now, I should have been more clear. But when it happened, I didn't know that, and imagined it was some sort of vengeance.
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Nov 4, 2020 10:49
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I hear people say they stopped physical bullying by fighting back a lot but I went the opposite route and just started screaming as loud as I could if anybody put their hands on me and it also worked because it was awkward and the bullies got in trouble
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Nov 4, 2020 16:17
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I mean one idea I've seen kicked around is instead of rating kids on test scores we rate the class as a whole from kindergarten. Teach kids from the outset to be cooperative instead of competitive. That was mostly to help fix education in general but I feel like it would help with (some) of the bullying.
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Nov 4, 2020 16:21
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Peanut President posted:I mean one idea I've seen kicked around is instead of rating kids on test scores we rate the class as a whole from kindergarten. Teach kids from the outset to be cooperative instead of competitive. That was mostly to help fix education in general but I feel like it would help with (some) of the bullying. most bullying isn't for poor grades. it seems like the main thing that would do is increase the amount of bullying directed at dumb kids
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Nov 4, 2020 16:22
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Its Coke posted:most bullying isn't for poor grades. it seems like the main thing that would do is increase the amount of bullying directed at dumb kids If youre grading solely on intelligence sure. Grade the whole class based on team work and poo poo like that and suddenly the traditional bullies are the ones holding everyone back
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Nov 4, 2020 16:26
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500excf type r posted:If youre grading solely on intelligence sure. Grade the whole class based on team work and poo poo like that and suddenly the traditional bullies are the ones holding everyone back that could work
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Nov 4, 2020 16:28
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I think the idea is also that instead of handing a kid a giant F on their paper, signifying to them and their peers that they're an idiot, the entire class gets like an 85.
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Nov 4, 2020 17:03
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Peanut President posted:I think the idea is also that instead of handing a kid a giant F on their paper, signifying to them and their peers that they're an idiot, the entire class gets like an 85. you mean the individual grades would be private? seems like that would create a free rider effect
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Nov 5, 2020 00:52
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this is me complaining about a job if anyone cares, it's kind of e/n venting but deals with irl adult bullying the last job i quit, i actually had to quit because the bullying was so ingrained into the people i was working with that i couldn't take it anymore. very simple solutions to very simple problems, but someone who isn't too bright is in charge and everything's hosed. i'm trying to concentrate on work and the person in charge won't tell some kid i'm working with to turn off his lovely music at 6:15 AM so i can concentrate on weighing out hundreds of jars of weed? because it's her loving nephew or some poo poo? i used to be a chef and no one there had enough restaurant experience to comprehend what i meant when i told them i turned down job offers from michelin restaurants and i could help them with their efficiency problems. from being a chef, i was taught to see exactly what's causing whatever we're doing to cost hundreds more dollars in labor. telling my boss this and not being listened to was really rough for me. towards the end, i was literally waking up crying because i didn't want to go to work. i literally called out of work a few times. i really needed the money then, too. it was bad. i couldn't keep going to work and being bossed around people who knew less than me and treated everyone like poo poo. i had to be the one to tell them to stop yelling at everyone when they address the crew because when they talk in a normal tone everyone can hear them fine. like "heyyyyyy.....stop yelling at us." "oh...i guess i can stop doing that." several times, things came close to getting physical with co-workers, and none of those mf's understand how badly i would hurt someone if they stepped to me. maybe they'd get me good, but i'd leave them with something to remember me by. they might be remembering some tussle they had in high school, but i've been in an actual fight as an adult and uhh...it's not fun. i don't recommend it. i avoid fighting at all costs. if someone insists on having a fight with me, they're making a very big mistake. when i learned kung fu, one of the biggest things i learned was "don't gently caress with anyone, but really don't gently caress with a stranger, because you have no idea how long they've been training or what they've been training or with who." this isn't poo poo anyone should have to deal with in a work environment. i worked in kitchens for a long time, and things never got *that close* *multiple times* to things being physical. i dunno what you know about professional kitchens, but we don't exactly have a reputation for being sweet and cuddly. i had some insanely rough times as a chef, but i never woke up and immediately busted out crying that i had to go to work. i've never been around such prolific poo poo talkers of co-workers, and i worked in the loving restaurant industry for a loving decade. i mean, i've said terribly things about people, but these mf's were just the loving most grimey. i'm pretty sure i had to say "uhm...they're in earshot" to one of the bosses talking poo poo about a co-worker. all of that doesn't really even get into how disorganized and poorly thought out every thing was. i repeatedly had to tell people that they were wasting a lot of time and energy and creating more work for themselves by picking things up and putting them down multiple times for things they could be doing in one step. it got to the point where i was like "alright, i need to be in charge and be able to discipline people and send them home or fire them, or i need to quit." i quit because i didn't want to help those assholes make any more money. i decided that i need to get my money up and start my own business, and eventually people like them are going to be coming to me and asking me for jobs and you know what? you know what? i'm gonna give them and job and teach them how to not be assholes, and if they want to be assholes they can loving leave. that's the dream anyway. for the time being, i pulled the emergency brake on the train, it's not slowing down, and i loving jumped off because there's a bridge that's out ahead. worst job i've ever had. anyway, i could keep going on and on about how terrible that was and how terribly i was treated there, but i think it's important what i learned from the situation: we're totally hosed as a country. people like that shouldn't be in charge of anything, much less be in charge of hiring and firing people and directly affecting the economy. money and capitalism has perpetuated stupid people being in charge thinking they're smart. i never wanted power before, but now i feel like i need to have it because it's be so abused by those who wield it. i think it's important to change the very way the workforce is structured. we're controlled by language, and i don't think there would actually be a "boss" in my company. i think the word "boss" has a negative connotation at this point. maybe "leader" would be better. there's a pervasive idea that "entry level people work hard and get to move up the ladder" but it's very clear after being working class for a decade that it's designed as "we SAY entry level people work hard and get to move up the ladder, but we really just put who we want wherever we want when we want to do it" because no one will stop them. they try to trick people like me into teaching their younger relatives into how to do the job that they won't pay me for. it's insane. everything's built on an illusion and hopefully it collapses, but that's been said before, now hasn't it? maybe everything is an illusion and we have to actively dismantle the illusion. sorry for the  if i had time i'd edit it down but i gotta get to my job that doesn't suck poo poo
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Nov 5, 2020 22:22
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thanks for sharing. i agree w/ you, alobar. something is very wrong with the culture here.
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Nov 5, 2020 23:19
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| # ? May 3, 2024 00:16 |
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hey you know about how the old study on wolves which gave us the whole alpha male thing turned out to be bunk and even discredited by the original scientist because it turns out wolves living in an unnatural environment such as captivity are dysfunctional compared against wolves living in their natural habitat? that’s humans and the institutions of the industrialized capitalist world
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Nov 6, 2020 00:46
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