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Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Georgia leaders reject calls for special session to change runoff voting rules

quote:

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp said Tuesday he won’t call a special legislative session to tighten residency requirements for the Jan. 5 runoffs, despite pressure from some supporters of President Donald Trump to make it harder for new residents to cast their ballots in the consequential election.

He and Georgia’s two top legislative leaders - Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan and House Speaker David Ralston - released a joint statement that threw cold water on the idea that lawmakers could overhaul voting rules this close to the twin runoffs that could determine control of the Senate.

“Any changes to Georgia’s election laws made in a special session will not have any impact on an ongoing election and would only result in endless litigation,” the three Republicans said.

“We share the same concerns many Georgians have about the integrity of our elections. Therefore, we will follow the coming audit and recount closely and will work together to keep Georgia’s elections safe, accessible and fair.”

State Rep. David Clark, who was crushed this week in a bid to oust Ralston as new speaker, is among several Republicans who urged the governor to call lawmakers back to Atlanta. He said legislators should make it harder for newly-arrived Georgians to cast their ballots in the runoffs to prevent outsiders from “interfering in our elections.”

State law allows new residents to register to vote with county officials by Dec. 7. It also makes it a felony to vote if you are in the state briefly with the intention to move away.

Clark and other critics say it opens the possibility for a wave of out-of-state residents to move to Georgia for the dual runoffs, which pit U.S. Sen. David Perdue against Jon Ossoff and U.S. Sen. Kelly Loeffler against the Rev. Raphael Warnock.

There’s no evidence of a crush of out-of-state residents moving to Georgia for the election, though former presidential candidate Andrew Yang announced he would move to the state for the runoffs and encouraged his supporters to follow him. It’s not clear if Yang intends to register to vote.

Kemp had earlier announced a special session to fix a legal problem in a Hurricane Michael relief measure, though he also pointedly added at the time that he could direct lawmakers to also tackle “budgetary and oversight issues.” The timing of that session is still uncertain.

There’s still a chance that rank-and-file lawmakers could force a ballot access debate this year: State officials note that legislators can bring themselves in for a special session with a two-thirds vote. But it’s seen as highly unlikely.

Anthony Kreis, a constitutional law professor at Georgia State University, said any effort to change voting laws at this stage would have been soundly rejected by the judicial system.

“Let’s be clear,” he said. “Calls for the Georgia General Assembly to be convened in a special session for the purpose of altering absentee rules to suppress the vote are grotesquely un-democratic, an abuse of power and a constitutionally suspect form of racial discrimination.”

A positive development. Kemp is not joining the crazy train.

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Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004

This tweet has a few other activist groups that could potentially benefit from donations, but full disclosure I know nothing about them other than Stacey Abrams making this tweet so ymmv

https://twitter.com/staceyabrams/status/1324687447259779072?s=20

Smeef
Aug 15, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!



Pillbug
Just dropped a hundo to Fair Fight

Once this runoff is over, I hope they expand the model to the rest of the country.

Majorian
Jul 1, 2009

Deteriorata posted:

Not as far as I can tell.

This thread was established to discuss on-the-ground activism to aid his campaign. His policies are easily found with Google searches. If you don't like him and don't think he should win election, then this thread isn't for you.

No, that's not your call to make. People can absolutely criticize any and all of the candidates involved in the Georgia election ITT.

e: I think people should vote for and support Ossoff, as much of a dingus as he is, and especially Warnock, but there are things to criticize about both of them. This is a debate & discussion forum, so debate and discussion will be encouraged.

However, those criticisms need to be detailed, well-argued, and with citations included. For example, claiming that one candidate saying he will not support the GND means he will caucus with the Republicans needs some pretty strong supporting evidence, since that's a bold claim to make.

Majorian fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Nov 11, 2020

Ruzihm
Aug 11, 2010

Group up and push mid, proletariat!


Majorian posted:

, claiming that one candidate saying he will not support the GND means he will caucus with the Republicans needs some pretty strong supporting evidence, since that's a bold claim to make.

If you intend to not support the passage of a bill, doesn't that mean you either intend on voting present or intend on voting with the party that unanimously will vote against it?

That's all I meant. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word caucus, I was talking about collaborating on that one issue.

I'll temper that point accordingly.

Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Nov 11, 2020

Coredump
Dec 1, 2002

Majorian posted:

No, that's not your call to make. People can absolutely criticize any and all of the candidates involved in the Georgia election ITT.

e: I think people should vote for and support Ossoff, as much of a dingus as he is, and especially Warnock, but there are things to criticize about both of them. This is a debate & discussion forum, so debate and discussion will be encouraged.

However, those criticisms need to be detailed, well-argued, and with citations included. For example, claiming that one candidate saying he will not support the GND means he will caucus with the Republicans needs some pretty strong supporting evidence, since that's a bold claim to make.

Since this is a runoff should the criticisms be structured as "this candidate is the better choice than this candidate and here's why" since the choices are effectively choose between this dem, this republican, or don't vote. Otherwise the criticisms seem pointless and stifle calls to action. I mean for all the criticism about Ossoff not being left enough in this election your other choice is Perdue, do you think you can get him to move more left?

Majorian
Jul 1, 2009

Coredump posted:

Since this is a runoff should the criticisms be structured as "this candidate is the better choice than this candidate and here's why" since the choices are effectively choose between this dem, this republican, or don't vote. Otherwise the criticisms seem pointless and stifle calls to action. I mean for all the criticism about Ossoff not being left enough in this election your other choice is Perdue, do you think you can get him to move more left?

Good questions! First, let me put my cards on the table: I'm not convinced that addressing the legitimate criticisms of Ossoff and/or Warnock will stifle calls to action. While there are things that I don't like about their positions, the problems are pretty "garden variety Democrat" fare. I don't think being real about those problems will turn very many people here away from supporting either candidate. However, if there are actual, concrete things about their records or positions that an honest discussion would cause somebody to second-guess their support, then that's probably an issue that needs to be discussed.

Now, as you say, there are two likely-to-win choices in each of these runoff races, and there's the choice to not vote. I don't think there are very many people here who are likely to vote for the Republican candidates, but there are a few who live in Georgia and who may choose not to vote. You may not view either of those choices as particularly responsible, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't hear their arguments out. They may have really good reasons for their positions, or they may be more willing to be convinced to turn out for the Democratic candidates than you think. Either way, though, like I said, the purpose of this forum is debate and discussion, and we're going to welcome that here, as long as it's in good faith, backed up by evidence, and made without personal attacks or condescension or anything like that.

Does that sound fair?

Ruzihm posted:

If you intend to not support the passage of a bill, doesn't that mean you either intend on voting present or intend on voting with the party that unanimously will vote against it?

That's all I meant. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word caucus, I was talking about collaborating on that one issue.

I'll temper that point accordingly.

Well, it seems to me like this is one of those things where one can draw a (perhaps fuzzy) line between not actively supporting something (out of cowardice, or political expediency, or some combination of the two, or whatever), and actively opposing it. While Ossoff's position is a pretty chickenshit one, it doesn't strike me in the same way as Mitt Romney's recent statement, wherein he said he was going to do everything in his power to make sure a GND doesn't happen. One of these politicians might change his position once a bunch of activists flood his office and demand that he stop being a wuss; the other probably will not.

I'm not saying, of course, that "he MIGHT not suck on the GND at some point" is sufficient reason to turn out and vote for the guy, mind you, but I would like to make sure we're accurately honing in on what the candidates actually have signaled. Part of that is because there's a lot I don't know about these races myself, and I'd like to learn more!

Majorian fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Nov 12, 2020

Apathy420
May 18, 2017

by Cyrano4747

Deteriorata posted:

Kemp is not joining the crazy train.

:thunk:

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

i wonder how much of his reservation is because he's too afraid of someone reopening the course of the election that gave him his current office

Fuschia tude
Dec 26, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2019

Majorian posted:

there are a few who live in Georgia and who may choose not to vote, or to vote third party. ...

Does that sound fair?

No, there are no "third party" candidates in a runoff election. That's what "runoff" means. :psyduck:

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
Yeah, there's no sample ballot yet for this runoff, but here's a previous runoff ballot:

https://www.dekalbcountyga.gov/sites/default/files/users/user3587/Combined%20Composite%20Ballot-Website.pdf

There's no write ins. No third parties. If you were not on the last ballot and didn't achieve the necessary margins, you don't get put on the ballot for the runoff.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮

CommieGIR posted:

Yeah, there's no sample ballot yet for this runoff, but here's a previous runoff ballot:

https://www.dekalbcountyga.gov/sites/default/files/users/user3587/Combined%20Composite%20Ballot-Website.pdf

There's no write ins. No third parties. If you were not on the last ballot and didn't achieve the necessary margins, you don't get put on the ballot for the runoff.

Ruth "The Truth" Stringer sounds like a winner to me.

Technowrite
Jan 18, 2006

I first battled the Metroids on Planet Zebes.
Columbia County here! My fiancee and I will cast votes for Ossoff and Warnock on Jan. 5.

Majorian
Jul 1, 2009

Fuschia tude posted:

No, there are no "third party" candidates in a runoff election. That's what "runoff" means. :psyduck:

Bleh, you're right, I wasn't thinking. Even so, my point stands: not voting is an option, and we should listen to the arguments of people who are considering taking that option.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Majorian posted:

Bleh, you're right, I wasn't thinking. Even so, my point stands: not voting is an option, and we should listen to the arguments of people who are considering taking that option.

There's nothing lost by the removal of trolls. These are users fundamentally opposed to participation in democratic government. not every thread should need to cater to a rabid group of users who are opposed to its subject. That's how we wound up with the GE thread.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Nov 12, 2020

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Majorian posted:

Bleh, you're right, I wasn't thinking. Even so, my point stands: not voting is an option, and we should listen to the arguments of people who are considering taking that option.

Unless people specifically live in Georgia, this should not be allowed.

Majorian
Jul 1, 2009

Deteriorata posted:

Unless people specifically live in Georgia, this should not be allowed.

You know what? I agree, that's fair.

If you live in Georgia, and are making the conscious decision to not vote in the runoff elections, please explain your reasoning. I would like to hear it, and I think other people ITT would too. If you don't live in Georgia, though, maybe sit back and listen to people who do live there.


Discendo Vox posted:

There's nothing lost by the removal of trolls. These are users fundamentally opposed to participation in democratic government. not every thread should need to cater to a rabid group of users who are opposed to its subject. That's how we wound up with the GE thread.

If people are trolling here, they'll be probated. But not everybody who disagrees with you is a troll.

Ruzihm
Aug 11, 2010

Group up and push mid, proletariat!


Discendo Vox posted:

There's nothing lost by the removal of trolls. These are users fundamentally opposed to participation in democratic government. not every thread should need to cater to a rabid group of users who are opposed to its subject. That's how we wound up with the GE thread.

That would be true if that's what were happening.

In addition, this thread is also about whether or not to support some partisan campaigns in georgia. Let us not omit that topic when discussing what is on topic.

Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Nov 12, 2020

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Majorian posted:

If people are trolling here, they'll be probated. But not everybody who disagrees with you is a troll.

Criticisms of "electoralism" in a senate runoff aren't coming from a sincere standpoint, especially when they begin at page 1 and are allowed to continuously define the scope of discussion for every following page. As with so many other parts of DnD, you should not be letting the assholes with the most abusive positions to define the scope of what conversation is allowed to occur. Not every thread needs to be a debate over participation in civic government or the insufficient purity of Democrats. That's why we have different threads.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Nov 12, 2020

Majorian
Jul 1, 2009

Discendo Vox posted:

Criticisms of "electoralism" in a senate runoff aren't coming from a sincere standpoint, especially when they begin at page 1 and are allowed to continuously define the scope of discussion for every following page. As with so many other parts of DnD, you should not be letting the assholes with the most abusive positions to define the scope of what conversation is allowed to occur.

Okay, evidently I'm not being clear with you, DV, so let me be even more clear: this is not the place to complain about your posting enemies. If you don't like the way I'm moderating, feel free to contact one of the mods. But again, this is a thread in a debate forum, not r/ActBlue or whatever. People are going to be allowed to post differing opinions ITT.

This conversation is over, and I will begin probating people who continue to post about other posters from this point onward.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice
One point I didn't see brought up is whatever Ossoffs positions regarding a GND may be, the fact he is for PR and DC statehood means his vote for a hypothetical GND also won't in the long run matter all that much; he will vote to press the button which will allow everyone else to vote.

Owlspiracy
Nov 4, 2020


I'm confused about the purpose of this thread. Is it to discuss what's going on the race, our personal opinions of the candidates, or is it have a referendum on the candidates to guide voting choice amongst the few people who live in Georgia that read this thread?

Majorian
Jul 1, 2009

Aruan posted:

I'm confused about the purpose of this thread. Is it to discuss what's going on the race, our personal opinions of the candidates, or is it have a referendum on the candidates to guide voting choice amongst the few people who live in Georgia that read this thread?

IMO, any and all of the above. I would like to hear Edward Mass' perspective, though, too, since they're the OP.

Ruzihm
Aug 11, 2010

Group up and push mid, proletariat!


Raenir Salazar posted:

One point I didn't see brought up is whatever Ossoffs positions regarding a GND may be, the fact he is for PR and DC statehood means his vote for a hypothetical GND also won't in the long run matter all that much; he will vote to press the button which will allow everyone else to vote.

I think these are good positions and i hope to see more candidates supporting them. I hope they are not credited for any negative performance the candidate might have.

FizFashizzle
Mar 30, 2005







lmao we're getting Ossoff ads in Asheville of all places.

I'd like to hope they've got information about out of state voters living here and aren't just trying to plaster the northern most edge of the north georgia mountains

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

FizFashizzle posted:

lmao we're getting Ossoff ads in Asheville of all places.

I'd like to hope they've got information about out of state voters living here and aren't just trying to plaster the northern most edge of the north georgia mountains

i suppose they may also think it's worth it to motivate out-of-state donations

Apathy420
May 18, 2017

by Cyrano4747

Technowrite posted:

Columbia County here! My fiancee and I will cast votes for Ossoff and Warnock on Jan. 5.

represent :wave:

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004

mediaphage posted:

i suppose they may also think it's worth it to motivate out-of-state donations

Yeah if he doesn’t get those out of state donations, then how will his campaign be able to afford ad buys outside of Georgia to drum up more contributions? :v:

blossommirage
Nov 7, 2012

FizFashizzle posted:

lmao we're getting Ossoff ads in Asheville of all places.

Got ads recently that started with "Warnock hates puppies!" that turned into "just kidding, but this is what the other candidate is going to say about me because she loves dismantling Healthcare but doesn't wanna talk about it, and also I love dogs". Truly outstanding advertising. The next couple months are gonna be hell.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012
Has Warnock said anything about Medicare For All recently? A cursory google brought up this interview, where he seems to dodge the question:
https://www.atlantamagazine.com/news-culture-articles/11-questions-for-georgia-u-s-senate-candidate-raphael-warnock/

quote:

What are the most pressing issues facing the state/nation on the healthcare front? Should Medicaid be expanded? What are your thoughts on the push for Medicare for All? What steps should be taken to help Georgia’s maternal mortality crisis?
In the midst of a pandemic, when Americans are being forced to choose between their health and their constitutional right to vote, we are seeing that access to quality, affordable healthcare is a crisis. We should be improving the Affordable Care Act and defending protections for people with pre-existing conditions. I’m committed to working across the aisle to lower the cost of prescription drugs through price negotiations, including pushing for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid to be empowered to negotiate lower drug pricing and advocate for more ability to work with our partner countries to bring in prescriptions to market at lower cost but the same level of quality and safety. We can push for Congress to roll back the power of special interests by imposing caps on the maximum price that can be charged for life-saving drugs and limiting the excessive use of patents to encourage market competition.

We also need to protect coverage for reproductive healthcare, defend it against partisan attacks, and address the high maternal and infant mortality rates—especially among Black and Native American women—by tackling bias in our healthcare system and medical professional training. [We need to] make it easier for states to expand Medicaid and create a public option for those that want it, as well as give people with employer-based coverage the choice to participate.

"Access to affordable healthcare" is the typical democrat deflection from committing to M4A, and "public option for those who want it" is a permutation of the Buttgieg/Warren/Kamala healthcare pitches during the primary.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

Sharks Eat Bear posted:

Yeah if he doesn’t get those out of state donations, then how will his campaign be able to afford ad buys outside of Georgia to drum up more contributions? :v:

I know you’re going for a gotcha but it’s totally possible imo that it makes sense to broadcast regionally if money funnelling into ga makes local buys expensive. it’s probably still just them maximizing every last bit of ga coverage, though

Eric Cantonese
Dec 21, 2004

You should hear my accent.
I've been looking to join in on a postcard writing campaign, but the sites I've visited say that there's a backlog due to the amount of interest. I don't know if that's a good sign or not.

I've donated. I really don't want to phone bank, but if I have to...

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

This is the first real campaign in a post Trump environment. What are the Democratic candidates running on? The entire foundation of the Democratic platform was removing Trump, so what are these senatorial candidates proposing now that he’s lost? Are the pushing Medicare for all? The GND? What’s the policies that they’re running on?

Edit: to be clear, they are obviously attempting to get more senate seats for the Democrats. What are they proposing they’ll do with those seats?

Owlspiracy
Nov 4, 2020


Cpt_Obvious posted:

This is the first real campaign in a post Trump environment. What are the Democratic candidates running on? The entire foundation of the Democratic platform was removing Trump, so what are these senatorial candidates proposing now that he’s lost? Are the pushing Medicare for all? The GND? What’s the policies that they’re running on?

Edit: to be clear, they are obviously attempting to get more senate seats for the Democrats. What are they proposing they’ll do with those seats?

They're going to come together to nominate fifty Republicans to the Supreme Court and build a giant funpark over the graves of coronavirus victims. Or, you could look at what they've campaigned for previously, because this is a runoff, not a new campaign. Here's Ossoff's site: https://electjon.com/policy/

They are running as standard slightly left Democrats and the Republican attack is "if you vote for them you're voting for socialism."

Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Nov 12, 2020

nah
Mar 16, 2009

Both of them have been tweeting a lot about healthcare since the election. Seems their main goals are protecting and expanding the ACA.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

Cpt_Obvious posted:

This is the first real campaign in a post Trump environment. What are the Democratic candidates running on? The entire foundation of the Democratic platform was removing Trump, so what are these senatorial candidates proposing now that he’s lost? Are the pushing Medicare for all? The GND? What’s the policies that they’re running on?

Edit: to be clear, they are obviously attempting to get more senate seats for the Democrats. What are they proposing they’ll do with those seats?

After I donated Ossof sent me an email stating that if Dems aren't elected then everyone is going to die of covid because McConnell won't allow Biden to enact a plan or provide relief.

Which is a good bell to ring but they should be pushing out to long term measures.

Taking back the courts, allowing Biden to seat competent people at administrations, ending gridlock and allowing HR1, Police reforms and etc... are all obvious things but should be hammered relentlessly.

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:

Cpt_Obvious posted:

This is the first real campaign in a post Trump environment. What are the Democratic candidates running on? The entire foundation of the Democratic platform was removing Trump, so what are these senatorial candidates proposing now that he’s lost? Are the pushing Medicare for all? The GND? What’s the policies that they’re running on?

Edit: to be clear, they are obviously attempting to get more senate seats for the Democrats. What are they proposing they’ll do with those seats?

I don't think it's fair to call a run-off of the 2020 general election a post-Trump environment since all of the candidates and their platforms are from that election.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012

whydirt posted:

I don't think it's fair to call a run-off of the 2020 general election a post-Trump environment since all of the candidates and their platforms are from that election.

I believe the context is of turnout; democrats need a motivation that isnt "Not Trump" now that Trump is out.

Georgia runoffs typically have significantly lower turnout, largely in the Republican's favor. Not having Trump to rally around will worsen that.

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:

Neurolimal posted:

I believe the context is of turnout; democrats need a motivation that isnt "Not Trump" now that Trump is out.

Georgia runoffs typically have significantly lower turnout, largely in the Republican's favor. Not having Trump to rally around will worsen that.

That's explicitly not the context of the post I quoted, which was Just Asking Questions about basic policy positions that are answerable from five minutes on the candidates' websites. I can't think of any runoff elections where candidates made substantive changes to their policy platforms in the span of a few weeks, but I'm happy to hear of examples of it so I can learn something!

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Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004

whydirt posted:

That's explicitly not the context of the post I quoted, which was Just Asking Questions about basic policy positions that are answerable from five minutes on the candidates' websites. I can't think of any runoff elections where candidates made substantive changes to their policy platforms in the span of a few weeks, but I'm happy to hear of examples of it so I can learn something!

They are expecting to win by doing the same thing under less favorable conditions? That's a cause for serious concern!

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