Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Lesgoon posted:

Does anyone have book recommendations for reconstruction after the US civil war? There are hundreds of works about the actual war, but the reconstruction seems glossed over so frequently.

The republic for which it stands covers reconstruction and and the gilded age. I've barely dug into it but it seems very well researched and full of absolutely blood boiling information.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

The Nazis built most of one,ohe Graf Zeppelin. Once things got rolling they realized their vanity project was not gonna be the best use of resources and it never got completed.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Nenonen posted:

Maybe it's just a lingual coincidence, but in German a mortar is called Granatenwerfer, literally grenade thrower.

Everything in german is named that way though. They have no sense of style or elegance for naming.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Xiahou Dun posted:

If you must try to have a one to one relation of words between languages, "werfen" is probably closer to "hurl" than "throw".


No they don't and the English word is just a borrowing from French that was then used as a metaphor because it kind of looked like a mortar a la mortar and pestle.

This is an incredibly dumb post when you know like half the thread speaks German.

"I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse."

Sorry man Charles has spoken

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Xiahou Dun posted:

Doch kannst du mich am Arsch lecken.


I bet you say that to all the cute fillys.

Serious though dude take a chill pill. It's a joke, not a funny one, but an attempt at levity.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Hunt11 posted:

Why was this a thing?

Supposedly they we're supposed to be more damaging and quote "convince the turks of the benefits of christian civilization". Theres very few surviving examples of the weapon that still exist and I doubt half the things written about it are true. It was not successful or mass produced

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

GotLag posted:

If you've decided it's okay to burn hundreds of thousands of people to death does it really matter what type of bomb you use to do it?


The US government was trying to wrap up the war before the Soviets could get involved, but at the same time they refused to offer what the Japanese leadership wanted (and that they got in the end anyway) - assurance that they could surrender but keep the emperor. Why did they get so hung up on this? I'm not really convinced by the theory that it was based on popular domestic US opinion.


I'm curious about these terrible opinions, because I am not aware of any.

Conditional surrender's is how we got WWII in the first place, or at least that was a common view at the time. The US choosing to allow the Emperor to remain is far different then the Japanese negotiating for him to remain.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Japanese, chinese, Korean, and any other civilians caught up in the whole thing. If the bombings sped up the end of the war by even a day it saved untold thousands of lives, once the US could start getting food to those peoples.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

That entire British Pathé Channel is an absolute treasure trove of cool old film. I'm particularly fond of the ones showing the operations of the automat.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

This thread, or it's previous incarnation, have already had this exact same topic discussed numerous times. People here, not me, but others have actual degree's and actually study history for a living. So posting some youtube rando is not exactly going to be met with height praise, especially when his entire motivation seems to be to "debunk" some PragerU video. From what I gather PragerU is some Rightwing pseudoeducational service, but when you start with a conclusion, that the atom bombs weren't justified, and work backwards from it you're already operating in bad faith.

I'm not going to watch the whole thing because gently caress that, but I watched the part entitled "The Invasion Narrative" and many problems already revealed themselves.

First off he's cherry picking data to fit his conclusion. He uses the fact that the one million dead American points in the PragerU video actually comes from a column published in 1948. He then extrapolates from this that the one million dead is a justification for using the bomb after the fact, however he glosses over the fact that obviously Truman would've been briefed on the suspected casualties of allied forces in an invasion.

Even just looking at wikipedia show's the numbers, while varying wildly, we're being tabulated by allied planners going years back, to use only the million dead number by Stimson published after the war, while ignoring all the other figures that would've been known to Truman and his staff is intellectually dishonest at best.

I was gonna type up more on how he's more interested in attacking the phrasing used in the PragerU video, instead of y'know actually presenting facts, but gently caress that.

From what I've seen the video is a hard pass, If you actually wanna know about something read papers or books published by people in the field, don't watch two hour long video's by people on youtube.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

bewbies posted:

remember during iteration 54 of the atomic attacks debate when some guy was arguing they should used bombers to drop food instead of bombs? that was cool

Some guy took the quote about bluejeans wining the cold war a little too literally.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

I honestly think It wouldn't even be discussed outside of academic circles, the only people get so wound up about the bombs is cause, well they're bigass bombs that killed a lot of people real fast. How many germans and Austrians did Britain's blockade kill in WWI? People aren't gonna remember a number like that.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Pretty sure the 1916 quote is from Guns of August. Don't have the book on hand to check but it feels like that's where I've seen it

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

It did get in at least one battle in it's short life so at least it wasn't a complete failure like the Vasa.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Cessna posted:

It never happened to me.

And I'm pretty sure if you're getting shot up, whether the handle of your shovel survives or not is a low priority.

https://youtu.be/6ryyAenmzHM

But if you lose your shovel how are you going to chop your veggies, climb trees, or defend yourself from stick wielding maniacs.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Helicopters won't operate at too high of altitudes though. I guess you could use them in the lower parts of the himalayas. Or just don't fight a war on a mountain

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Depending on your definition of dictator there honestly hundreds that could qualify as benevolent. Lee Kuan Yew for example managed to transform singapore from a backwater microstate to one of the leading economies in asia.

Augustus as emperor ended decades of civil war and put in place a system that was a hell of a lot more stable than the absolute poo poo show that was the late republic.

MacArthur's leading of the occupation was a hell of a lot more successful than any of his campaigns, and while the postwar period isn't exactly bright in Japan they did manage to get enough food and medicine that they staved off a large portion of the mass starvation that would've taken place if the war would've continued.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Being published doesn't mean poo poo.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Bill o Reilly is also a published historical author. I'm not saying Duncan isn't fine. But I am saying being published means nothing

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

They should build a statue of whoever did him in, thank them for ending that madman's reign of terror.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Nessus posted:

Hope of continuing to expand their territory and the influence of their peculiar institution without a navy. :v: Had the CSA won separation I would imagine they would be at war with Mexico within 20 years, potentially less.

From what I understand of confederate ideas their goal of they won would've been to secure cuba, the caribbean, and the gulf coast to create a bulwark against the abolitionist movement. I'm not sure if that means outright conquest or a more diplomatic approach. A Mexican war would've been almost certain I think.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Carillon posted:

I thought there was a bunch right? It's not just apply and that's it, there's a whole nomination process isn't there?

The sarcasm is palpable in the quoted post

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

It looks like something I'd get into at the grocery store and ride for thirty seconds for a quarter.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

wiegieman posted:

We can wrack our brains coming up with all sorts of smarter or more effective things the nazis could have done in the closing years of the war, but at the end of the day they would never do them because being crazy paranoid psycho idiots is what got them into that mess in the first place.

It feels good to call our enemies idiots but never forget how many extremely intelligent and rational people were roped into the Nazi project as well.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

If I was in the Wehrmacht I would've been too busy setting a landspeed record towards the allied lines to care.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

I cringed when I saw it. You should be respectful towards historical relics.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Didn't wanna interrupt the Sub chat, but talking about occupation zones got me thinking, anybody got any recommendations for a book on what life was like on the ground floor during the early occupation. It occurs to me that the only media I've consumed that deals with it is The Third Man and Gravity's Rainbow.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

I mean you could just assume that he's a white supremacist or you could actually look at his twitter and see he's just a weirdo really into german history and architecture, whose retweeted numerous tweets in rememberance of the holocaust.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

If' the explosive is in the tip of the bullet I don't think the force of the gun firing would set it off, and then it would go off when it hits the target? I have no idea I'm not a physicist

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Jobbo_Fett posted:

If the Chinese MREs are anything to go by, yes. :barf:

Steve eating 100 year old rations regularly, and yet only getting sick from the chinese rations he's eaten is both hilarious and sad. I feel for the stomachs of the pla if they ever get into combat.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Well they went from a net exporter of grain to having to import from the US in the seventies I want to say.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Wait did the ramming ships not get mentioned yer, like the HMS Polyphemus. Some insane brit decides to go back to Ancient warfare and arm modern ships with rams, pure lunacy. Most famously depicted owning some martians at the end of War of the Worlds.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Roosevelt suffers a stroke during the 1932 election, leading to Hoover narrowly winning reelection. After four more years of deep depression and rapidly rising internal strife, Huey Long becomes the top Democratic candidate for 1936 and wins easily. Long begins supporting the Republicans during the Spanish Civil War, helping to evolve the conflict into a three-way proxy war between the US, USSR, and Nazi Germany. Meanwhile, as tensions reach a boiling point within the United States, England and France grow wary over rising Imperial Japanese ambitions...

I mean, I'd read that Harry Turtledove novel.
Would you give the election to Hoover over Garner? Him and Roosevelt obviously didn't agree ideologically on much, but if Garner could jump onto some of his policies and ride Roosevelt's popularity he might've had a shot, Hoover being a weak as hell candidate helps a lot though.

Also I'd bet the establishment would put a bullet in the Kingfish themselves before they let him anywhere near the oval office.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Grumio posted:

What if the Daqing oil fields in then-Manchukuo were discovered in the 30s (instead of the 50s), giving Imperial Japan access to a huge oil reserve? Japan is still a pariah for their actions in China, but do they need* further expansion?

*I'm sure the IJA would insist on it, mad imperialists that they were

If they didn't have oil concerns I'm guessing they focus more on ending china, and readying for war with the soviet union. The imperial government was rabidly anti communist and it's harder for junior naval officers to cross borders and start wars than it is for the kwantung army

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Manchuria is taken in 1934, us restrictions start in 1938 and the full embargo In 1941. So possibly.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

From what I've read of his influences Nilfgaard is a combination of Rome, The HRE, the USSR, and Nazi Germany.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

zoux posted:

No that's Serpentor.

"These long-dead genetic blueprints were combined to produce a clone with the genius of Napoleon, the ruthlessness of Julius Caesar, the daring of Hannibal, and the shrewdness of Attila the Hun, and the aggressiveness and impulsiveness of Sergeant Slaughter."

Who would you put in your Serpentor?

Julian, Justinian II, Fredrick II, Wang Mang, and Roman von Ungern-Sternberg.

Perfect combination of Rulthless ambition and total failure so Team Joe can always stay on top.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I've been watching the first Gundam series lately, and I don't think it has any particular milhist relevance. I would characterize it more as "war is bad, and the schemers at the top cause a lot of suffering and death while pursuing their goals, but mostly war is bad." Core themes are the effects of war on civilians, PTSD, how the individual soldiers in your army and your enemy's army can be perfectly nice folks who are going to try to kill you tomorrow, and what happens to a teenager when you put him in charge of a high-tech war machine and he turns out to be really good at piloting it (hint: he gets a savior complex).
Yeah the real Grognard poo poo comes in later with the kit manuals and extended works. Still interesting to see a Japanese person directly dealing with how they see the war and the post war though

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

xthetenth posted:

Frederick II, Eugene of Savoy, Julius Caesar, Epaminondas and Baron von Steuben.

I don't know if he'll be a great general but he'll be absolutely iconic.

Eugene is Beautiful, Louis says you can't cut it as a general. How bout I kick your rear end for two decades, what a lad

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

The nilfs are way into slaves so it fits.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Okay so who wants to watch all of Gundam with me and discuss mech and robots for years?
Finally a topic I'm confident I'm more knowledgeable in compared to the rest of the MilHist thread

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply