MCU TV: WHAT IF...CIVIL WAR (OVER IP FINANCING)

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > MCU TV: WHAT IF...CIVIL WAR (OVER IP FINANCING)

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

live with fruit posted:

I can already hear the complaints about having to watch Wandavision and Ms. Marvel first.

Not a lot of people watched Ms. Marvel, but I think Wandavision was one of the most watched shows worldwide during the pandemic

# ¿ Apr 11, 2023 18:48

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 17:43

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Ike Perlmutter got fired, they should just cast Terrance Howard as Kang and apologize and toss him lots of money as a make good for Perlmutters tomfoolery

# ¿ Apr 20, 2023 02:15

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

IMO all of Loki works as a great 12 episode limited series. I don�t really like the first season on its own but as part of this overall story arc for Loki�s heroes journey, it�s awesome.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2023 05:27

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Soonmot posted:

I feel it was also easier to build stories around the macguffins of the infinity stones than Kang or the multiverse. But the biggest thing was, as has been said, the way the teases in phase 1/2/3 led right into the next movie instead of being something set up for who knows when.

Anyways, I finished MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios, and it was like the universe wanted the MCU dead after Endgame. I should have written this while it was fresh in my mind, because now I'm forgetting things. You had (not in chronological order, just as I remember them):

1) Gunn getting fired. The right wing concern trolling completely derailed not just plans for cosmic marvel, but Gunn was getting set up to take the lead on phase 4. This was perlmutter and his cronies doing their own thing so that when feige was able to get disney to hire gunn back, the damage had already been done, especially since WB swooped in to give gunn whatever he wanted.

2) Chadwick Boseman dying. Black Panther was going to be the face of the MCU phase 4+ like Iron Man was for the first chunk. That's speculation on my part, not from the book, but it did seem like the films were going in that direction.

3) Covid. Obviously this hosed everything up and we're still feeling the effects today, not just with filming, but with movie attendance. Personally, I've gone to thirteen movies this year, which seems like a lot, but is about half of what I usually do.

4) Push for streaming. This is a big one because, for the most part, Marvel was running these shows like they were long movies instead of actual shows. You cannot have a four hour movie you chop into eight chunks and call it a day. The flow and rhythm of a good show is different than a film. It also put so much more pressure on the already overworked sfx houses. No one can say that the visuals in these recent movies and shows aren't worse than the early films.

5) Feige getting promoted. Seems like a good thing with how he sheparded the Infinity Saga to completion, but what it really did was made it so he didn't have the time to make sure the films were shaping up how they should. Combined with the push for streaming and how accelerated the new phases were initially planned that led to an overall quality dip.

Any one of these is an obstacle that could have derailed things, all of them together and I'm amazed that Secret Invasion was the only outright trashpile they shat out this phase. Yes, I like Quantumania and Love and Thunder.

I haven�t read the book yet but I wanted to add something that also contributed to this mess:

When Chapek took over in 2020 he created a new vertical inside Disney that put all the movie studios and TV under the supervision of his buddy Kareem Daniel, so while Feige did get a promotion he was also not in direct control over every aspect of Marvel programming. The Disney Media and Entertainment Distribution business unit got a LOT of say over what got greenlit and where projects would end up (many projects ended up on Disney+ and as a result kneecapped their income potential).

Now this DMED was dismantled when Iger came back last year, but basically everything that�s been released this year was fostered under this Daniel regime.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2023 03:23

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Alhazred posted:

It works super easy, it's barely an inconvenience!

Talking to yourself is TIGHT

# ¿ Nov 22, 2023 08:37

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Whoever did the Werner Herzog impression got a chuckle out of me

# ¿ Dec 24, 2023 21:01

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Gangringo posted:

Low budget She-Hulk could be hilarious. Re-used transformation animation, careful cutaways, and lots of meta commentary.

While the budget was terribly high, the failure of that show is in the writing.

I wanted a show as smartly written as Ally Mcbeal, what we got instead was people who had heard of Ally Mcbeal but never watched an episode, trying to do a show about a lawyer superhero.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2024 21:24

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Soonmot posted:

For Feige specifically it was a couple things. The push for D+ shows in constant rotation and then his promotion taking his already split attention away from directly overseeing the shows. The biggest thing though was Marvel treating tv shows like long movies and doing their "fix it in post" thing.

The MCU book that was released a few months is really good and it's amazing marvel got anything done post endgame, regardless of the quality.

Under the first Iger regime, Feige had final say in Marvel Studios decision making

When Chapek took over, he installed one of his MBA buddies, Kareem Daniel who was then placed above Feige (and Kennedy, and whoever runs Pixar) and it was Daniel who ended up giving green lights to lots of things.

A lot of this can be blamed by Chapek�s stripping the studio heads of their power in favor of people loyal to him, but not all of it. Marvel still could�ve set up their shows like actual TV shows with a showrunner instead of treating them all like 6 part films, but I honestly think that Feige and company had a lot of hubris and were trying to distance themselves from the successes that Netflix had with their IP and thinking that they had some superior way of producing TV.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2024 09:04

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

apatheticman posted:

Echo was very successful?

1)A metric that a lot of streamers are looking at now is total minutes streamed and if you drop like 300 minutes worth of a show in one shot it�ll probably do well in that regard, and
2)It dropped on both Disney+ and Hulu

# ¿ Jan 20, 2024 07:25

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

LividLiquid posted:

gently caress you.

GODS! Do these people not get that courtroom drama can be just as loving exciting as punching? And it's a hell of a lot cheaper to shoot?

I absolutely do not trust Marvel to hire experienced TV writers who cut their teeth doing police or lawyer procedurals so I�m fine with them cutting things like this out.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2024 08:52

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Teek posted:

Rumors this afternoon that Wilson Bethel will also be returning as Bullseye for Born Again.

Wonder if their filming schedule change might now accommodate original Vanessa's return.

They already shot a lot of stuff before rebooting the show, so I�m not sure they�d change actresses again

# ¿ Jan 24, 2024 00:30

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Narcissus1916 posted:

Does anyone have a quick link/summary of Echo's troubled production? Like was their episode order slashed midway or something?

I don�t think this ever got reported in the trades so all of this is via Jeff Sneider, but I think the original order was all shot, but as they started editing it all together it wasn�t working, so they rewrote the show and intended to do reshoots, then the strikes happened, so they just cut it all up in post.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2024 21:58

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Tom Tucker posted:

Moon Knight probably benefited a good deal from Oscar Isaac and the timing of its release. I feel like Disney plus had a good run of shows people were interested in like Wandavision and the Mandalorian before fatigue set in and Moon Knight got in on the tail end of they good will (at least it did for me)

Wandavision was actually good though and while it didn�t really stick the landing for me in the finale, it was a show that had a voice and wasn�t just another content dump.

A lot of the Disney+ projects are like c-grade movie scripts dragged out into a 6 episode miniseries.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2024 21:00

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

twistedmentat posted:

The Marvels would probably benefit from a directors cut with a some more footage, even if its just more the main cast hanging out.

Marvel needs more hang out stuff, like Kamala and Kate recruiting the Young Avengers should just be a hang out series.

I think they shot the film with a bad script and then tried to fix it in post with reshoots, so the disjointed mess that we got is a consequence of a film that started out half baked

# ¿ Feb 8, 2024 04:11

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Xealot posted:

I mean, nothing about the story in either film precludes that they were in an actual relationship. Every detail of Carol and Maria's dynamic was pretty consistent with a Don't Ask, Don't Tell-era "best friends" situation, down to Monica wearing Carol's jacket like her dad was off on deployment.

The movie obviously doesn't commit because Disney are cowards, but I still read it this way. I didn't question Monica's anger at Carol for leaving, because I assumed it literally was the anger of a child who was abandoned by a parent. The idea that "Auntie Carol" couldn't be open about her place in their family just adds complexity to that; Monica can't be as explicit about why she was so hurt because it unearths a lot of poo poo about Carol and about her mother.

Nothing in Larson or Lynch�s performance even hints at this. This is a thousand times thinner than Finn and Poe are gay for each other in The Force Awakens

# ¿ Feb 8, 2024 23:07

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Sockser posted:

The MCU has had a villain problem since since basically phase 2, and Dar-Benn is probably the worst villain that any of the films have had, because she's nothing. Christian Bale in Thor 4 at least had a bit of pathos behind him. (I do not remember what Christopher Eccleston did in Thor 2 at all so he takes the number 2 spot for worst MCU villain)

I don�t even remember Eccleston was in that lol

# ¿ Feb 13, 2024 03:15

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Dead Reckoning has a bunch of fantastic action set pieces and great performances by the supporting cast, strung together by a bad plot.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2024 22:08

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

thrawn527 posted:

This looks like a different kind of bad, though. Like, it has the same kind of 90's style, but the computer animated look of the recent DC animated movies, if that makes sense.

It's a visual design over the tech involved. I don't know if I'm describing it right, but it feels different. I know they weren't going to spin up a traditional animation studio for one show. But it definitely feels different.

I haven�t watched the animated series in a long time but, at least from the trailer, I think the animation in the new one has a slightly lower frame rate or something else about it that is making the animation look jankier.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2024 20:39

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Nikumatic posted:

The funniest/worst thing about THE MCU IS SO MUCH HOMEWORK is that the "homework" is basically never actually relevant or required but that's not the public perception at all. Or it actively makes the movie worse a la Dr. Strange's treatment of Wanda feeling like she's coming from a completely different place than WandaVision left her. I think making a connection with Kamala leading into The Marvels is pretty much the current best case scenario for one of the TV projects actually enriching the movie that follows it, while Monica feels like we missed a step between Captain Marvel -> WandaVision -> The Marvels since most of what we got in WandaVision was based around her relationship with her mom and not any sense of abandonment from Carol. Then you've also got Secret Invasion in which Nick Fury is basically a completely different character in a different mindset and place than he is at the beginning of Marvels. Two of your three lead-ins basically just muddy the waters of the main event.

If you're going to make it "all connected" you've gotta at least make sure those connections are going A to B to C in the process. And I'm extremely forgiving of the MCU! I don't really blame anyone who's not and who feels the "death of a thousand cuts" that they've been experiencing since Endgame. It's a lot of own goals they didn't need to make.

I might be wrong but I think Multiverse of Madness got conceived of before Wandavision, even though Wandavision shot and released first.

But yeah her character in Dr Strange 2 feels like we missed a whole season of TV or a film appearance that would fill in the gaps. You would think that because they had a whole year between Wandavision and Dr. Strange that they�d do something in post or do reshoots to smooth it out but nope.

So you need to watch everything but none of it matters anyways

# ¿ Feb 20, 2024 21:35

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

live with fruit posted:

Did Don't Worry Darling kill Styles' acting momentum?

I thought he was good in that film but overall it was a mess

# ¿ Feb 29, 2024 21:52

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

PriorMarcus posted:

The behind the scenes drama certainly did, like him cucking now beloved actor Jason Sudekis and spitting on Chris Pine.

You got that one wrong. Jason Sudekis and Olivia Wilde were already done before Harry Styles was even cast in the film.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2024 20:50

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Away all Goats posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrsTs2OO56s

The animation looks right but I hope that is not the final sound mix, there�s a weird reverb on everything and the voices are too hot.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2024 05:46

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

LividLiquid posted:

For real. Where do these people think Trump came from? Holy poo poo, the blinders on people.

Sometimes it feels like they think anything anybody says on the internet doesn't count, or is indicative in no way of their character, which explains how they post.

I agree with you but let�s not pretend this is why the Marvels performed poorly, Captain Marvel was probably dogpiled on even more and made a billion dollars.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2024 18:19

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

live with fruit posted:

https://twitter.com/AgentsFandom/status/1769030859653267815

They have way too much poo poo going on, I forgot either of these were happening.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2024 08:07

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

FlamingLiberal posted:

There was also way more distractingly bad CGI in Shang-Chi than the other MCU films (at least that I immediately noticed).

On the one hand yes. On the other hand this film was actually profitable due to the lower production budget and the CGI wasn�t so bad that it stopped me watching it a couple times

# ¿ Mar 17, 2024 23:00

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Dexo posted:

Ant-Man 1 and 2 were some of my favorite marvel films.

It sucks in 3 they tried to make it a pillar of the MCU movie, instead of a fun superhero psuedo-comedy with a fun cast just riffing and making jokes with each other.

I knew this film was in trouble when we found out there was no Michael Pe�a

# ¿ Mar 18, 2024 21:49

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

live with fruit posted:

It seems like momentum covered up a lot in the early phases. The movies weren't so much better than they are now but they were telling one big story. Now there's stuff like Shang-Chi and Moon Knight that having nothing to do with anything.

Ehh.

I think all the phase 1 films were legitimately good (even Iron Man 2), phase 2 had some films I think were just ok like Iron Man 3 or Thor 2 but it also had Winter Soldier and Guardians.

Even phase 4 had some great ones like Shang Chi and Wakanda Forever and NWH. But then we get to phase 5 and Ant-Man 3 and The Marvels are just really messy, not enjoyable films.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2024 07:27

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

lol anti-woke mobs are funny, a line I�ve seen repeated from multiple idiots now is that DeMayo was fired because he refused to kowtow to the LGBTQ agenda.

Yes, this black gay man is surely against the gays. The guy who gay coded Sunspot�s hiding being a mutant in the first loving episode is your next anti woke crusader

# ¿ Mar 21, 2024 18:38

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

thrawn527 posted:

I was wondering about this, too. Maybe the death certificate scene is meant to imply that the healing didn't work, and he's now officially dead? (Until he obviously comes back to life, because comics.)

He�s still in the show introduction which makes me think maaaaaybe he�ll come back

# ¿ Mar 21, 2024 23:28

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

I don�t like some of the casting choices - like some of them sound great like the new Cyclops who sounds just like the old Cyclops, but Magneto and Bishop in particular lose a lot of gravitas

Also I think Lenora Zenn is THE iconic voice of Rogue, but she definitely sounds like a 60 year old who�s smoking a pack a day

# ¿ Mar 22, 2024 06:59

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Soonmot posted:

Yes? I'm honestly not sure, because Maddie should be the pregnant one, but we've seen that Jean use powers and go by Jean, so they're changing something up. I mean Scott's not even in Alaska.

In episode 1 she has a weird vision after diving into Gyrich�s mind and says �someone else is in here.� Now I acknowledge I�ve got no evidence for what I�m about to speculate, but in my mind she is in fact Madelyne Pryor and the whole Jean persona and memories are a construct implanted in her mind by Sinister.. The �someone else� is her true self poking through.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2024 03:13

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

As a kid I never thought of Rogue using a collar or power-dampening character to help her get it on with Gambit, but thinking of it now I tend to think her being Gambit�s beard the whole time makes more sense :cawg:

# ¿ Mar 25, 2024 04:21

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Rarity posted:

Loving the show's commitment to speedrunning all the peaks of the Claremont run because they know the show even existing is a miracle

If all they did is recreate all the Claremont stories I�d be pretty happy.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2024 22:30

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Ep7: So who killed Henry Gyrich?

Rogue did nothing wrong

Also with Magneto being alive, I am assuming they aren't going to undo everything that happened at Genosha with time travel shenanigans and Gambit is going to stay dead This show is so loving good.

Bastion did. He's the big bad

# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 08:50

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

thrawn527 posted:

I kind of doubt it. I think it was just a cameo. Bringing Cap in as a major player would take some focus off the Mutants at a pretty crucial time.

On a semi-related note, I just read up on Bastion, since he's not a character I'm familiar with at all. And I came across this summation from the comics about his origin:

"In Marvel Comics, the Master Mold absorbed the systems of an immensely powerful Sentinel prototype from another universe: Nimrod. The resulting beast was far too powerful for the X-Men to defeat, causing them to force the entity through the Siege Perilous, a pan-dimensional portal that grants those who step through it a new life. Bastion emerged from this portal as Sebastion Gilberti, an ostensibly human version of the two sentinels, completely devoid of memory of the life that came before."

What the gently caress did I just read? I feel like I know less now that I did when I started.

I guess he's part Super Sentinel? But that whole "Sentinel from another dimension, then forced through another portal to yet another dimension that spit out a sort of human" thing totally lost me.

Its been a while since I read that part of the X-Men run, but the Siege Perilous is not just a portal but more like a transformational window. Nimrod went in and came out as Bastion via magic.

There�s more weird poo poo like Psylocke going in, coming out with zero memories of who she is and then getting body swapped with a Hand assassin named Kwannon whose ninja aesthetic is now we normally think of Psylocke

# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 20:58

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

They kind of did an Age of Apocalypse storyline in season 4, I'm not sure if they would do it for real now.

Episode 5 kind of was a a green light to do more modern stories, and I wouldn't be mad if they did a post Claremont storyline.

# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 21:19

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Burginator posted:

It's really not out of character for him -- He's never anti-mutant or anything, but he certainly doesn't like doing any actual legwork for them or putting his neck out for them like 95% of the time. I legitimately can't even remember if he's ever even fought a sentinel, let alone actually been a meaningful part of defending mutants in any way but lip service. The whole "Can't help you until I get cleared" is pretty in character in that mutants don't rank as high as most of the stuff that he'd willingly ignore orders for.

Yeah the MCU Captain America is a different character altogether, this Steve Rogers is not the same guy.

I kind of hope they don't bring this show into the MCU, I like that it's in its own timeline. Disney can always just bring the X-Men characters into live action for the MCU, just keep this show out of that timeline.

This show is good enough that I signed up for the Marvel Unlimited app and have been catching up on stuff that came out post Astonishing X-Men

# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 21:35

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Shoehead posted:

If I recall correctly AoA is actually one of the few concepts from the show that ended up in comics and not the other way around, (unless that story is BS)

AoA launched in the comics in January 1995, that episode didn't air until September.

# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 21:52

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

GateOfD posted:

Similar to that, was Emma Frosts diamond form also something they added in the 90s or did she always have it, and her just awakening it is a X-Men �97 invention

IIRC all started with Grant Morrison's New X-Men run in 2001, she was found in the rubble of Genosha similarly to how it was done in X-Men '97

# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 02:32

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 17:43

1st AD: Dec 3, 2004; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Skios posted:

Halfway through the episode, and Bastion just dropped back to back all-time lines, followed by a "Holy poo poo, he really is irredeemably evil." moment .

drat this one is a banger. Bastions sentinels are a clever commentary on todays stochastic terrorism

# ¿ May 1, 2024 09:05

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > MCU TV: WHAT IF...CIVIL WAR (OVER IP FINANCING)

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