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WattsvilleBlues posted:Did they? I gave a lot of feedback during B4B Alpha and virtually every piece of feedback I gave was unchanged; infact, the game is largely no different between Alpha and Beta which in a 7-month window, is pretty worrying. Almost all the structural problems I observed are still here and skeptical that we'll see anything substantial given the game comes out real soon. It's not ready, and easily needs another 6+ months in the oven but welp, thats game development. I'll summarize a lot of things that I'm seeing with the beta. The game is very uneven but not in an interesting way. Turtle Rock is desperately trying to go "NONONO u guys!! this is TOTALLY not L4D3, we've moved beyond such a petty proletariat outdated game and we've built our own NEW GAME!" by then piling on a bunch of poo poo that sometimes works, sometimes doesn't; while also carrying a lot of L4D elements because that's all they know how to do. A good example of this, and is already talked to death about, is Specials: In L4D1/2, Specials existed as spoilers for certain player/team tactics and to punish on mistakes, positioning, and force them to adjust their play-style. They all had very unique sounds, cues, models, and were drip-fed very carefully with thought into the levels. Specials in B4B are just dogshit and only felt like they were added because well, thats what you gotta add right? They all look mostly similar, mostly like poo poo, and many are barely recognizable or look too much the same. They don't serve the finely-honed purpose of those in L4D. And either they're trivial in this (i.e. 3/4th of them), or complete bullshit (constantly getting bile-spewed through walls, bile-sniped through walls, and every single thing to do with the Bruiser). Seriously the Bruiser sucks rear end to play against and they throw that at you an enormously out-sized percentage of the time. I'd say like 80% of the Specials that we encounter are solely Bruisers and most likely to wipe; and in Vet/Nightmare it was just tedious how frequently you fight them for no apparent reason other than to make game "hard". They desperately needed to rework them after the Alpha and they did not. Levels: Act 1 is unchaanged and boring as hell. It's a complete snoozefest even on hardest up until the yacht and then it turns into bullshit non-stop special spawn, until you get across to the machinegun side and then it gets easy, but that initial Yacht part is really uneven. I will say they did fix the Alpha problem where specials were spawning 10-at a time the entire time you're trying to even plant bombs, so that's nice. But for an introductory level, it's a terrible one. Act 2 however is a massive improvement, its more atmospheric, it looks better, and has more actual interesting mini-events. If future Acts are more like Act 2, that'll be a pleasant surprise, but that Act 1 has stood as it is is real sad and that we're only starting with 4 Acts is going to seriously hurt and probably right there put a significantly damper on the game in terms of replayability and keeping it interesting -- i'm sure will be added as "Free DLC/Updates" but I've been burt enough on CEO galaxy-brained GaaS concepts that I'm not going to trust it to deliver. Difficult: Seconding that Survivor is just so easy it's boring, but also the level-to-level difficulty curve is extremely uneven, we could steamroll on Nightmare up until One Particular Spot gets us biled through a wall and bruiser spawns in right behind us. Like even on hardest, Act 1 up until the yacht gets repetitive due to how easy it is. Meanwhile Act 2 is generally okay but then throws some real lovely fights or the infinite spawn road. Graphics: Aside from Act 1, it's a decent looking game but nothing special. Kinda feels more like a 2017. The one big problem is that enemy models look really crappy in this. Cards: They're fine but don't really change the game up until you get the more interesting ones (double primaries, unlimited secondary, healing share, accuracy but no ADS, etc) stuff in which you can build around them. Corrupted Cards are mostly ignorable and boring and feels like they made them weaker/less interesting from the Alpha. Nothing about them really shakes up the game at this time, you mostly just continue playing as you normally do. They should really engage with these more to change up the game. Guns: So I would not consider balance a structural problem, those issues are things easy to address in patches and will probably see guns re-worked in this. But as it stands most shotguns and sniper rifles and even some SMGs are pretty bad. AA-12 is the only good shotgun and sniping is quite uneven but it's good to have something that can pluck out Spitters from a distance assuming you're not currently being swarmed and got a bruiser on you. But that kinda leds to my next problem is the Attachments Also who the gently caress thought it was a good idea to have Slot #2 as the first on your HUD? The game makes it very very easy for you to confuse which weapon you have out or want to swap to and I witnessed players constantly losing their guns by accidentally swapping out the wrong one and not realizing it. Same goes for attachments in this. Attachments and slotting them in/out is reall loving clunky and unlikely to change; and an even greater problem is that Scopes are horrible in this game. Like an actual straight up negative to get an 2X/4X scope on a gun and you cant get rid of it. It takes too long to scope in and detrimental with how much will be in your face on Nightmare. The reflex/ACOD or Iron sights is good enough to snipe anything from a distance with how close everything is in LOS. Just the attachment system in general feels real messy. On the pro-side, most guns generally felt pretty good to shoot even if effectiveness was questionable; although they all kinda look very similar to each other with some exceptions. The non-universal ammo wasn't really a good change but not awful either. It exists, but I dont think it adds to the game and felt like they put it in solely to go "see see we're totally not L4D! we did something NEW!". Melee in this was improved from the alpha but it gets into a larger problem is I witnessed some amount of rubber-banding and sliding, in addition to phantom hits and very poor model/hit registration or hit feedback. A lot of the common just kinda slide and hit you with maybe a paw to the hit. Push in this is also much weaker than it was in other games and kinda feels bad but you still have to do it at times. It's certainly useful though at times. But again most shooting zombies has uninteresting feedback and mostly just fall over or sometimes heads explode. The game would feel a whole lot better with some Dead Space / RE2 dismemberment or more visual staggering and feedback to when you hit a shot or smack someone or not. Versus: Completely loving terrible and an absolutely waste of developer's time to even make this flaming dumpster of a game mode. It appeals to no one and should have saved the 6+ months of work and skipped it; or done it properly. Everyone I spoke to playing it in B4B hated it and weren't going to play it again. Everyone from L4D2 is going to hate this and it's absolutely DOA. Even Battlefield 5's Firestorm mode, a massive bellyflop waste of time, has nothing on how stupid this is Not going to say anything about bugs because it's a beta, and those aren't really structural problems but there definitely are some connectivity/disconnect issues and other oddities but I expect those will be fixed. I want this game to be good, but I have a feeling it's going to be dead in 6-months and I expect a lot of the problems will still be there. I'll be playing it from Game Pass while it's fresh but I doubt i'm going to stick to it like I have with Deep Rock Galactic or Vermintide 2 or even previously L4D1/2.
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Aug 8, 2021 05:28
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Mendrian posted:I've said before I have no interest in VS and I don't completely understand the raw anger fans feel forwards Swarm mode Personally I don't particularly care much, L4D Versus was fun in it's own right and unique and it was good that it existed because the era of asymmetric pvp games had largely evaporated; and it also required being more in a mood instead of slamming back beers and lazily shooting zombies. but it's such an absurdly stupid waste of everyone's time (devs, players) to even bother with this joke mode. They shouldn't have even bothered.
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Aug 8, 2021 08:00
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Yerok posted:The movement and shooting feel really floaty and unsatisfying. Maybe the instant acceleration to maximum move speed feels less weird on a controller? you can try playing around with Mouse Smoothing on/off. I don't think it's unsatisfying per se, but it is a little floaty. Thats also why I absolutely hate scopes in this game and find them actively detrimental as attachments because there's also a floaty-delay in pulling them up and down. Guns that have Iron Sights/Red Dot or can work as hip fire seem the most effective.
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Aug 8, 2021 21:24
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Skyarb posted:It owns that you cannot swap attachents from weapons to new weapons you find on the ground. you can but you gotta fiddle with buying a new/temp one, swapping that to the ground, then swapping to the other weapon and swapping it in. it's messy and with how clunky the ui/item system is, not worth the effort. on one hand letting you pull them out would be nice and would make buying them a lot more viable or interesting and more ability to build out a gun; but it would also heavily gently caress with the pacing of the game with everyone going into their inventory constantly trying to do Attachment Tetris and spend minutes deciding on if this attachment is slightly better or not.
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Aug 9, 2021 00:24
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municipal shrimp posted:There only seems to be low level zombie density if you play on the lowest difficulty. There are a ton of zombies on the second difficulty. Yeah Zombie density is fine on second or third difficulty. the game would be better if there weren't specials; at least the way they've implemented them thus far and unlikely to change given there was virtually zero change from the alpha. all the complaints about constant bullet-sponge bruisers being thrown at you constantly, poor visual and audio cues, lack of distinct purpose, bile spewers constantly nailing it across the map and hitting you through walls, etc haven't even budged the slightest. i guess they do throw a little less at you Ra Ra Rasputin posted:lack of variety in the models is noticeable and how you are never quite sure if you are hitting a zombie that died already because there is no damage to the zombie model when they get hit unless it's a headshot.
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Aug 9, 2021 22:44
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Jack B Nimble posted:To be as charitable as possible, what do we think the intended response on bruisers is? The targeted player does a 180 and sprints away while three team poor fire into it, particularly if they can get an angle to shoot the shoulder? ...basically yes. Backpeddal, climb poo poo, magdump, and then move forward into another and repeat. It's terrible from a gameplay flow and it'd be okay if they were rare and served a purpose of stopping players from rushing certain hallways but that's not at all the purpose they serve. As best as I can tell, the only purpose of Bruisers is to deplete Survivor's ammo supply's real fast. You can use up grenades to kill them which helps but then another spawns in and it's back to square one.
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Aug 11, 2021 20:14
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BlackIronHeart posted:Yeah, I was considering preordering the game but with how much they need to iron out between now and the launch date, I'm gonna wait and see. I'm going to play it for a bit on Xbox Game Pass for $1, maybe get 1-2 months out of it, and probably never play it again. Same that Darktide got pushed back till next year but it's for the best.
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Aug 13, 2021 08:31
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also just an FYI, you can turn off Cross-Play in settings so it's probably a good idea to do that to at least partially minimize chance of really dumb pubbies. it's not going to be a slamdunk because pubbies are going to pub, but it'll be a marginal improvement in probability
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Aug 13, 2021 08:33
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Jack B Nimble posted:Anyone have any tips they want to share? We did a Vet game last night with a friend +2 pubbies, got through Act 1 with full continue, both pubbies dropped out at end of Act 1 for some reason. Played with bots for the first level of Act 2 which ssucked but okay, its not that hard of a level ultimately. Got some pubbies starting second level of Act 2 and they weren't great, one was pretty bad, but we got to victory with 1 continue left. The only reason we won was friend had the medic card that has pills share a lot of temp-health for the team and just constantly charging over health with temp, and we pumped up Team Support Item level to purple early on. For the 3rd level of Act 2 where you have to run the infinite horde to the house, someone needs 2 or 3 pipe bombs, mandatory. Going back to reiterate, someone medic cards with super-charged pills is really loving important. Bandages lose power pretty quickly and can usually find enough on the ground and it's far better to juice over Trauma with temp as best you can, and yeah having enough on hand to heal up at stations is important, use em. The church level usually has a heal station + free card but you better get it before you board up the windows because it despawns Someone should have a toolkit or two, usually always worth it to open the locked storage rooms. The knife melee in slot 1 with +2 health per melee kill is fairly solid, but the only weapon really worth using is the fire axe. It's also stupidly easy to friendly-fire with melee but the knife melee option doesn't so use that one a lot. e: I should add our Victory was probably due to the game going "easy" on us and only spawning shitloads of Crushers instead of Bruisers. Like the game kept making GBS threads at us 3+ crushers back to back which is 100000% more manageable than 3-bruisers back to back. Xaris fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Aug 14, 2021 |
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Aug 14, 2021 22:05
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on Vet when we did it with 2 fairly-bad pubbies we put down razor wire around the sides of the cannon; grabbed all the shells first and stockpiled them by the gun before we fired the first shot; everyone usually sat in the truck bed behind the cannon and covering a guy whose unloading and reloading; and then pop in the MG turret for the Ogre spawn (which doesnt seem to hit the person on the turret? lol) again though, it did help that most Special spawns that time were boomers, bile boomers, and crushers. only had 1 or 2 bruisers compared to about 15 crushers ive also played it where it spawned about 15 bruisers+0 crushers instead and that was wipe city. the overwhelming difficulty in this game is "did it decide to spawn back to back multiple-bruisers in a hosed up hallway or event?" "yes -> wipe" "n -> win" Xaris fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 00:14
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Mendrian posted:Vet is much more manageable with cards, I can't stress that enough, and playing solo is basically not an option, so you're going to feel even shittier at the game with bots than you do with pubbies if that's possible. I think they could stand to make Veteran less challenging or at least train the director to stop kicking you when you're down so much, that seems like a major issue with the game's AI. Coolguye posted:So it has therefore been established that this game has been balanced over some proscribed meta that the devs had in their heads while designing it rather than having some semblance of reactivity based upon following design guidelines that have been established by the preceding campaign. there's always the $1/mo Xbox Game Pass promo on throwaway gmx.com accounts if you want to try it again at launch for cheap. $60 on Steam for ssomething that may very well be fairly dead in a few months is steep. $40 would have been a better price-point as a basegame and if they wanted to throw in the typical WarnerBros Evolve DLC bonanza later they could (and are). Xaris fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 05:27
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Saint Freak posted:But still we managed to wipe in two cases when the game spawned 10-15 specials at once. I assume this was the game bugging out and it was not intended to spawn like, 5 tallboys inside of us while spawning 10 more tallboys to beat on us as we're grabbed on the easiest difficulty. Both times it did this is just spawned a shitload of one special and none of any other, and on replaying the levels it didn't happen which also feels like it supports my bugged theory. The game would actually be easy if it didn't spawn 10 bruisers or other specials at once which is probably why they're doing it.
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Aug 16, 2021 20:45
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Baba Yaga Fanboy posted:How does everyone else feel about the amount of guns? I felt like there were just way way way too many. Like, why are there so many variations of the same basic guns with slight differences in stats? Same goes for the attachments. When you add weapon quality on top of it, it translated to me spending way too much time hemming and hawing over stats when I'd rather be running and gunning. Looking over numbers before a mission is one thing, but once poo poo gets going I want to fight some fuckin' zombies yo It's not great but on the list of problems with the game, it doesn't even break top 10, or narrowly. A lot of them are mostly easily skipped as being strictly-worse than other options. RPK/LMG? trash, get a scar. that pump shotgun or the other worse auto? trash, get an super-90. ugh that SMG? i've already got a UMP, trash. so you just end up tuning most of the bad ones out and hoovering up the good one before your team can take it instead. Attachments/Stats on the other hand are a problem yeah but I feel a lot of them were negligible or actively harmful (scopes). Overall the weapon-attachment-stat system is a huge mess but if that was the only problem then it wouldn't be much of one.
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Sep 8, 2021 11:05
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Coolguye posted:appreciate the response. good to know i made the right call refunding this game during beta. spawning is definitely still fairly bad from what i've seen. if you played the god-awful, just horrific, versus mode you'll know that you can only spawn in when you aren't directly ontop a survivor whose directly facing you, but you can spawn in super close if you break LOS (i.e. spawn in a pillar just behind them or not directly looking at your spawn-in direction). i believe they apply that same logic to special spawning in that they can be as close as possible as long as long as it's like within a 5-ft LOS bubble and you aren't directly looking at where it could spawn. this means getting boomers suddenly appearing in doorways just behind you and tallboys spawning in just a few feet outside a door a lot. that said, paying $1 to sign up and give it a whirl on microsoft game pass isn't a bad way to see if you feel differently. definitely would have felt burnt for $60 which i think they priced it far too high. a $40-er seems more appropriate and then they could sell all the MTX cosmetics/WB lootpacks to their hearts content. enjoying it for a $1-er so far though. some other general thoughts so far: -recruit is definitely brain dead all the way through act 1. will try vet tonight. vet was fine in the beta but difficulty 100% came down to how much the game decided to spawn string of tallboys in lovely spots or not. if it didn't spawn any or few, it was quite manageble and even somewhat easy mostly. if it liked to spawn a shitload back-to-back, then it was absurdly hard. - hitboxes and visceral or meaty reactions are now in the game. zombies do a lot less sliding and when you shoot them with guns and melee it feels meaty and thunky and they do react with some gibs and stuff now. unlike alpha/beta where you were mostly pawing at the air infront of them and they would die (or not). so that's good and makes the game a lot better right there. - specials have actual cues and screen shake now which helps a lot - specials still lack the finely-honed and crafted purpose that they do in other games (l4d, etc) in that they're foil for specific player tactics and to punish certain things. they just kinda poo poo them at you non-stop without much rhyme or reason and the answer is pretty much just "shoot them". they seem like they added htem because they felt like they had to but never gave much design consideration to them. - bots are still dumb but not nearly as dumb as they were in the beta - the map design leaves a lot to be desired. a lot of the time it's not clear what you're supposed to be doing and having some waypoints or better innate map-design signage would have been appreciated. after yuou do it once or twice it isn't a major a problem but yeah. not a lot of personality to a lot of them. - attachment system is still dogshit and fucks up the flow of the gameplay making you check numbers and stuff midgame. terrible design mechanism imo Xaris fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Oct 13, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 19:35
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DarkAvenger211 posted:Are higher level cards really that much of a game changer? There are definitely some absurdly good sounding cards like Money Grubbers where you get +100 coins each time anyopne picks up a stack of coins, and there were some really powerful ones in the beta. having someone with ammo mule and like a medic build topping whole team off with 100 thp with a pills and stuff was really loving powerful and one of the best ways to defeat trauama for cheap. so yeah probably having a team of dedicated builds is life or death. having a medic-deck just topping off the whole team of quick max thp, a guy dedicated to one-shotting all tallboys, guy stacked with ammo and making ammo, who knows what else, is probably mandatory. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zURAO8DELx_EN1D8YkuJ8hw_WQ2jY1mcLE4D8ElMYUo/htmlview?pru=AAABfJ8XeLg*H_lTLljhL5SsK2Qv412phg and yeah you get cards in order. which imo seems like a bad design flaw at a basic level.
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Oct 13, 2021 20:06
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Coolguye posted:this is a really good thought but i unfortunately do not use an xbox, i am pc only. and yes it's absurdly stupidly named so I hear that a lot, but it's basically jsut EA Pass but Microsoft's version where they're dumping $1000 billion in capital getting agreements for games to be on it. thanks stebe jobs and dying-stage capitalism with more liquidity than anyone can do anything with. edit: as terrible as the microsoft app is, it's a really loving good deal and there's a lot of really good games on it for free*. you can see the PC library: https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-game-pass/games Xaris fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Oct 13, 2021 |
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Oct 13, 2021 20:08
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Cage posted:It feels cool as heck getting swarmed in a corner and alternating between shotgun blasts and poking people with the knife. Very satisfying plunking of zombies. actually i have a feeling hipfire-friendly cards and guns are mostly the way to go a lot of the time
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Oct 13, 2021 21:16
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GigaPeon posted:I feel like it's more like building a custom skill tree than "whoa so random, glad i pulled that card!", for better or worse. yeah i mean it can go either way. one leads to more deterministic "solved" build that basically just means everyone will be running pre-built 'builds', and one leads to more on the fly-adaption of having something different every run. i think i'd prefer the latter but of course difficulty in that case should be balanced around not having pre-determined solved builds if you do that route.
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Oct 13, 2021 22:22
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You basically just have to shoot them asap as soon as you see one, regardless of whatever it looks like and over any other tactic because they just poo poo them at you that deleting them is most important and it's not worth playing around whatever type it is. anyways playing more, it's hilarious how much they re-use the same level over-and-over. i get the feeling they went "oh poo poo we dont have any maps, players are going to complain about content" and then just re-used the exact level with lighting changes and few doodad re-placements over and over. talk about padding those acts to hell you could easily cut them down by 50% by just getting rid of dupe levels. it's also hilariously bad how confusing some maps are, there was one or two in act2 that all four of us spent a good 5+ minutes trying to find the way to the safehouse/objective.
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Oct 14, 2021 20:42
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So the last Act 4 is just one-level and gives you all your cards at once. I hosed up and selected a money-offensive item deck where several the cards were useless and had a slot or 2 empty at the end. So pro-tip, make a deck that's purely dps-based and not exploration based for that Act. i would also say it didn't seem like melee was super useful on that map either though some crowd control is useful also dont touch the wonky hitbox at all on the monster because it instant kills you
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Oct 15, 2021 09:58
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Recruit IS really easy. we even had two of the dumbest PS4 console players ever who barreled ahead, managed to set off every door and car alarm possible (like literally every one, except birds, for some reason they were smart enough not to set off birds??), who never bought team upgrades, who only rushed ahead to hoover up attachments (wihout even looking at them, i managed to snag some of their better weapons when they instantly swapped it as soon as a chest opened and before they realized they hosed up), we were all completely confused on act 2 and spent far too long trying to find the exit on some of the maps, and we still won without breaking much of a sweat. the only act i actually lost on recruit was act4 but that was because two of us got telefragged by the boss tail's hitbox that just instant kills you to completely dead state if you touch it, and a boomer knocked the other two into the tail shortly after after they tried to defib us. that said most of the games difficulty even in recruit comes down to spawning RNG: do we spawn 12 back-to-back bruisers in a tiny building where you can't kite, or do we just spawn a bunch of harmless webbers and the lure boomers instead?. Xaris fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2021 12:21
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Boz0r posted:I forgot this game already came out. What's the jist of it, is it worth 60€? get it on microsoft game pass for PC for $1 $60, no imo. its too high an asking price for this game and doesnt feel like it'll have any longevity once the novelty of a new L4D game wears off
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Oct 16, 2021 12:09
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also either matchmaking is broken or the game is hilariously dead. we started a Veteran game with a friend + 2 pubbies who dropped out right away and we went with bots all the way to the one right after defend-the-camp after delivering specimens, like lvl7 out of 10 or something and then finally one pubby joined. a solid 2 hours of just having bots. and the pubby we did get was straight up worse than a bot but fortunately they dropped out before they could sink our run bots are terrible but they do a lot of hacks to actually make them pretty good*. they get massive damage resistance, they dont take damage from biles, they get offensive/healing items on cooldown for free and can use healing stations without taking away charges, and you get more money because it's not distributed to pubbies who greedily jizz it all on bad mods -- so we could max out team upgrades a lot easier. plus they adjust objectives so like you only need to carry 2 things or plant 2 bombs. so yeah 2p + 2 bots on vet is absolutely viable and was actually easy overall. far easier than pub runs thus far. they do love to get stuck, not hunker down, and stand infront of you while your shooting a minigun, randomly fall off a small balcony during the grain-silo, they love to throw a pipe bomb at one zombie. but they do make actually really tanky distractions and heal you up on some cooldown without using actual items.
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Oct 16, 2021 12:13
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offensive item builds are also hilariously good. if you want to just break the game over it's knees, grab money grubber, copper scavenger, +1 team offensve slot, +2 offense slots, +1 offense slots, +100% explosive damage + DR, +75% explosive damage, +50% explosive damage, loadup on frags constantly. it takes like 4 grenades to pop a boss on vet, 1-2 frags to kill a hag. and a "delete pack of tallboys" on command button. also the 100% explosive damage gives it an electrical effect for no apparent reason? i dont know if anyone else noticed that
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Oct 16, 2021 12:16
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Jack B Nimble posted:Where is the "no ads, but 50% more accuracy" card? Also, is there any real way to choose what supply line you get next? It’s a fixed order actually. There’s a spreadsheet that shows the supply line progression.
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Oct 17, 2021 02:18
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Corbeau posted:Well, we finally finished act 1 on veteran. yeah the a1 finale is mostly a joke even on vet. have someone with upp'd grenades for tallboy packs, place down up''d barb wire, melee covers guy just mashing the load-unload, and you can plow through it quick. the level before it is awful because the mine run can be insane and it's such a loving LONG level that you also get like no points for completing it with a whole lotta moments that can gently caress you up quickly (getting bad boomer, biled through walls in the house, someone loving up the run up the street, just getting swarmed and taking too long in the mine-shaft area, etc) also Down in Front is a really nice card on Vet+ even with a coordinated team, it owns just crouching and shooting into your team as they're getting swarmed and keeping guys clear without worrying about deleting them on accident with an AA12 Xaris fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Oct 17, 2021 |
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Oct 17, 2021 10:13
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Oxxidation posted:the web guys seem very poorly designed. smokers could only incapacitate one survivor at a time and were visually distinct in a way that required them to do it discreetly, otherwise the victim’s buddies could follow the enormous tongue back to its seven-foot tall emaciated source and fill it with daylight. web guys use a repeatable near-invisible projectile and are almost totally nondescript none of them really engage or force players to adopt or re-adjust their tactics, or finely-honed foil for punishing certain tactics (sleeper is the main one that does that). about the only thing ive adjusted is just being dedicated juiced up 300% explosive damage frag grenade carrier to take out really bad tallboy spawns and bosses. Xaris fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Oct 18, 2021 |
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Oct 18, 2021 08:26
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dogstile posted:You can also just huck a nade at them, its an instant kill which is useful in a pinch. but yeah frags are just stupidly good for deleting everything. in particular, if you know you're going into a boss having hoffman loaded up with 8 frags with +300% explosive damage takes short work of it with probably 4 left to spare. i've got a good build for it but I feel like I need to augment some better combat capabilities for it, it's rough with some of the penalties I've taken. I agree pipes are good but there's only a few areas where it's even that useful or where you REALLY need to them to die (bar level). Fire crackers are usually 100g cheaper and do basically the same thing and a guy with bullet pen can just knock out a cluster over the firecracker in half a clip anyways.
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Oct 18, 2021 11:01
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Corbeau posted:More and more, I'm coming to believe that B4B's design flaw is how it handles player psychology. If you can accept that your resources are there to be burned through - even when playing well! - then the game feels much less punitive and you can start to see ways to take control over the outcome. An early mistake can put you behind the resource curve and kill you much later in the level in a way that (then) feels nearly impossible to avoid. Hell, failing to achieve a bonus objective can lead to a wipe in the following level due to consumable shortage. Thing is, that's not how prior games in this genre work at all. Flawless play is humanly possible and mistakes are punished immediately rather than on a dissociative delay. The potential playerbase has been taught to expect completely different things going in, and the developers tripled-down on that by emphasizing the past L4D connection (despite many statements of how B4B is it's own game and not L4D). Stick an old-school roguelike fan in front of B4B and they'd probably grasp the resource economy, and it's fatal delayed pitfalls, pretty quickly. Is that bad design? Sure, but it's not the sort of bad design that produces a broken game. It's the sort of bad design that unnecessarily steepens the learning curve and makes the game less accessible. I don't really have much to add but this is a very good post and correct. perhaps ultimately it's fundamentally not what I (and perhaps many others) want out of a 4-playerr co-op zombie horde shooter game with a more tryhard gtfo-esque attrition. I think once the novelty of building a deck trying to find new cards for breaking the game over it's knees and the newness factor wears off, I probably won't be playing it much longer because it's not what I really want. I'm not in for a mutation-spam attrition game very much. I'm still enjoying making some broken melee and grenade builds, but probably not for a lot longer.
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Oct 18, 2021 21:43
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limp_cheese posted:Decided to try Veteran again and this time only had 1 person join. Somehow we did much better as a 2 person team than anything I experienced with 4 people on Veteran. I feel like 2/3p Vet is way easier than 4p Vet. we did 2/2 bots on Vet and it was a snoozewalk and just loaded with money and maxing out every upgrade. The bots suck but work insanely well as a free heal/damage sponge and i think the game goes easier on specials/spawns with less players.
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Oct 21, 2021 23:41
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Corbeau posted:e: I forgot another one: the baseball bat got it's stumble modifier halved, not the reduction-by-a-third that's stated in the patch notes. I'm 99% sure I read that it got it's stumble modifier halved in the patch notes unless they post-hoc changed the patch notes quote:Bat movement speed increased to 410 from 400 anyways in unrelated news, this game has about 4000 less people playing it than L4D2 which is almost a decade old game lol going down to 1/5th of the launch playerbase isn't awful, but it's not great. generally expect to see some large falloff after the first few weeks, but i would also say it's not good for a multiplayer game either.  also my feelings on the patch is that this is a going to be a bad taste if THIS is the very first patch they do going forward. Yes, some changes like no longer doing FF to Crusher-held-players is good, but that shouldn't have been a thing to start with. Money Grubbers did need some nerf, yes, Breaker did need some buffs because it was a joke, but it's all going heavy into punting down the player. Another game, Outriders, did similar thing where they just kept squeezing the player into fine dust and eventually no one played it anymore and it was far too late by the time they realized the error of their way. I have a feeling they're trying to wallpaper over the lack of content and lack of upcoming content (besides NEW SPECIALS! Are you excited???) by trying to make it more "challenging". Xaris fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 02:48
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Cinara posted:50% more is 33% reduced, 100% more would be 50% reduced.
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Nov 12, 2021 02:53
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Since I last looked, the game has crated even more playerwise by almost 40% (10k typ Steam down to 6k typ) from merely about 7 days ago. not good for Turtle Rock at this rate. I don't relish in it dying because it does do some stuff fairly alright, but man there's just so many boneheaded design problems, bugs, horrible qp/matchmaking/privacy settings issues, and not good top-down communication to appease people that it's entirely deserved.
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Nov 18, 2021 10:43
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DogsInSpace! posted:Oh well. Wonder if l4d2 still had people playing it? there's more people playing L4D2 than B4B (on Steam) so you're good to go. go hit it up. game is still very good  
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Nov 29, 2021 00:57
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:How many of the -5% damage resistance cards do you guys put in a deck? Reckless Strategy usually goes in DPS decks. Widemouth and Reckless Strategy both go in some accuracy+dps decks. so probably around 2 tops. Multitool is okay but there's better use speed cards and don't need to stack that much usespeed most of the time. I'm usually throwing in Motorcycle Helmet because my ADS is already disabled. pretty much most of my decks use 90% (hunker down + qk) or 100% acc (qk + optics enthus + front sight) so Motorcycle Helmet is mostly a no brainer and counts any negatives of like Reckless Strategy Xaris fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Jan 4, 2022 |
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Jan 4, 2022 08:19
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Moonshine Rhyme posted:Found a good use for the Belgian in my no aim down sights deck. Unlimited secondary ammo, high accuracy and high reload speed make it pretty fun actually Basically high-stumble hipfire high accuracy shotgun tec14 build. it's absurdly good at deleting specials (the most threatening part of the game). instead of doing 100% accuracy requiring the use of 3 cards, i do the 50% acc card with hunker down (40% acc), shredder, combat training, mag coupler, silver bullets, marked for death, down in front, shell carrier, scattergun, motor helmet, confident killer, and whatever money card (money grubbers or copper scav) or anything else you want. you just debuff and blow the poo poo out of specials. 3 tec14 shots is pretty much enough to kill any special and you reload fast enough that a few more shots is nbd. tec14 is also absurdly ammo efficiency compared to AA12 or super90 that sg ammo isn't any problem even with another shotgun player. I may want to drop silver bullets for penetration bullets, I'm still considering it. The use of Quick Kill + Hunker Down lets you toggle between needing that 90% accuracy to hit at range, or leaving it at 50% for horde clear. Plus you can just crouch in mid-air jumps for that accuracy boost so you aren't losing a lot of mobility that way either.
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Jan 11, 2022 09:19
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TheJadedOne posted:Not just that. But design decisions. Bruisers, who do massive damage, completely hiding their weakspot to stop their charge and super damage slide. Retches being able to instantly puke once it has eye line on you(and bugged will puke through walls). Clearing a room and then having stuff spawn inside it because someone wasn't looking at it. The basics of the game are cool. I would love to see more card builds to help with variety. but dear lord the developer has no idea how to design challenge that isn't just punch in face all the time and be stupid. Also fortune card can increase your copper per round by 0, not just 25 to 50. Now fundamentally the game is not about Playing Well and avoiding game the way it is in games like Vermintides or L4D. If you're good, you can not take a single hit. This is not a game for high skill ceiling in being good and not getting hit. You can still be better about it, but it's a game about resource attrition and minimizing resource use. But then even then some real hosed monsterous special combination can just end even a well-planned and executed run. We once had a near flawless run sort-of end in the A3 Gardens region because the breaker spawned super far away and called the bee-swarm far beyond our party and then jumped across the map to us just almost instantly killing everyone and the bees pretty much finished the rest off.
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Jan 19, 2022 05:00
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 16:08 |
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I just hate how loving boring and repetitives the tunnels are but it's a big advantage to do them just for extra card pull ontop of ton of gold/weapons. you know what the game was lacking?? not being long enough! thank you turtlerock really wish they could figure something else out. the biggest issue is general length of the game and yeah you can quit-resume but it still sucks.
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May 24, 2022 21:56
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