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mellonbread posted:This could mean anything from "there are seven core statistics, but only three of them matter" to "every dialogue is resolved with a yes, no, or sarcastic option" The crafting system uses actual lists of common, uncommon, and rare scrap. This is not a joke. To make a beam focuser mod, you need five common scrap and three uncommon scrap.
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Apr 12, 2024 18:05
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Capfalcon posted:The crafting system uses actual lists of common, uncommon, and rare scrap. is it just listed as uncommon type scrap? or do i specifically need ground glass or something
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Apr 12, 2024 18:14
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Has anyone who backed it played around with the Broken Weave PDFs yet? It’s an interesting take on D&D 5e as it removes the spell list and Bonus Actions while using a lot of their Uncharted Journey and Lifepath supplements to shore up the Exploration mechanics. I really want to run a session of it soon.
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Apr 12, 2024 18:15
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It is very much a Fallout 4 RPG. It devotes a lot of page space to the game’s crafting system and the Bethesda east coast setting.
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Apr 12, 2024 18:17
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Has there ever been a tabletop RPG where crafting was good? Hell, has there ever been any RPG where crafting was good?
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Apr 12, 2024 21:56
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If MMOs count, FFXIV crafting is pretty good and is its own minigame, but that's all I can think of tbh? I recommend looking at Invisible Sun for a crafting system that has a hellacious loving flowchart with a billion failure states, all for magic items that are all consumable and/or breakable, and there's an entire splat based on this poo poo
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Apr 12, 2024 22:00
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mellonbread posted:Hell, has there ever been any RPG where crafting was good? Atelier. Wouldn’t like to try it on tabletop, though. Maybe app assisted tabletop?
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Apr 12, 2024 22:06
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is anyone here planning on watching the FFXIV TTRPG stream later today (in about 7 hours)? I don't think I'll be awake for it so I'll just be reading people's summaries after the fact, and I'd be interested in hearing what some non-D&Dpilled folks have to say about it.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:09
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mellonbread posted:Has there ever been a tabletop RPG where crafting was good? Monster Hunter? But it's also literally the entire gameplay loop of literally the entire game. The reward for getting the rare drop from a monster is moving on to hunting a different monster. The consequence of missing the rare Peeved Mauve Diablos Gem drop is that you keep hunting the same monster some more. Either way, the point of playing the game is to keep playing the game. As far as D&D-adjacent TTRPGs go, pretty much the best implementations of crafting I've seen are either "shopping by another name" or "finding treasure by another name," although yeah I'd agree that crafting your own equipment definitely is more narratively satisfying than just finding or buying stuff the usual way.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:15
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I like the idea of artifact enchanting, but you need a specific style of game where you have downtime to make something specific and have it matter, like Ars Magica or a particular flavor of GURPS setup.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:48
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lightrook posted:Monster Hunter? But it's also literally the entire gameplay loop of literally the entire game. The reward for getting the rare drop from a monster is moving on to hunting a different monster. The consequence of missing the rare Peeved Mauve Diablos Gem drop is that you keep hunting the same monster some more. Either way, the point of playing the game is to keep playing the game.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:51
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Dragon Quest XI has a fun one, it's a little minigame but the penalty for failure is just you make a baseline item, success means you get a +1-3. It'd be tricky to make a crafting system really fun in a TRPG because of the additional tracking involved. However, the original Space: 1889's Invention system had an interesting idea that's similar to this- adventures could give you "research dice" in specific areas based on what you saw/experienced and you could use that to invent things. The system may have had some other problems but I liked that part of it.
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Apr 12, 2024 23:00
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Countblanc posted:is anyone here planning on watching the FFXIV TTRPG stream later today (in about 7 hours)? I don't think I'll be awake for it so I'll just be reading people's summaries after the fact, and I'd be interested in hearing what some non-D&Dpilled folks have to say about it. I’m pretty sure that stream is going to be in Japanese and I don’t know if there will be a translator for the tabletop rpg secondary stream https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/4bb95710e34a33dea6bdb8503d8e119f0800b05b * Please note that the audio for both the main and secondary broadcast will be available in Japanese only. Granted this says audio, but I’m pretty sure it means no live translator.
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Apr 13, 2024 00:34
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There are two good crafting systems in tabletop RPGs. One is when you're crafting something that replicates a spell or some other special ability and the system is "it costs x time and y currency to make a thing of z power". This is basically fine. It's how PF2e works where crafting basically only exists for you to get things when the adventure or the local big city isn't making them for you, and you have downtime instead. Ars Magica basically works this way too - there's already a magic system so you're basically just sticking "make permanent/reproducible" costs to it. The other crafting system is when you work out what level of power the thing is. Then the GM says "it will take x adventures and y downtimes to craft this" and the x adventures are each bespoke adventures to get the specific ingredient you need. No crafting system ever needs to be more complex than that.
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Apr 13, 2024 02:22
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DpUW1kKNkNyo_c8SzxcDVMNwCKcSM5TQ5K52aAbixJU/edit?usp=sharing As some know, I released Magnificent Heroic Roleplaying as a retroclone. However, that was a side project on the way to making Wild Hunt. Wild Hunt is still working out its bugs, but I think releasing MHR gave the wrong impression that Wild Hunt is using a retroclone as its basis. To avoid that misconception, I have converted Wild Hunts inprogress engine into a superhero game, Majestic Superheroic Roleplaying. MSR also uses the Dicey Fate system, but this is closer to how I plan to generally implement it. It is a much more involved fusion of Fate Core and other systems that has a bigger focus on dramatic change than the MHR did. To help illustrate the compairsons, MSR is a superhero game as MHR was. This is the first draft. Let me know what you think.
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Apr 13, 2024 02:26
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I’m pretty sure that stream is going to be in Japanese and I don’t know if there will be a translator for the tabletop rpg secondary stream That makes sense, hopefully someone bilingual will write up a summary after a while
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Apr 13, 2024 02:38
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I had a lot of fun with the FFG Star Wars crafting system. Can get OP real quick though.
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Apr 13, 2024 03:20
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mellonbread posted:Has there ever been a tabletop RPG where crafting was good? There are thousands of tabletop RPGs out there and I haven’t played them all, but if I simply make the bold declaration that the answer is “no, there has never been one”, I’m going to be correct like 99% of the time and at worst someone will correct me by pointing to an obscure 2013 release that was only played by five people in total and now lives on page 230 of drivethrurpg and I’ll be pleasantly surprised. The long answer is that they’re all doomed to fail because they’re trying to turn a process of individual, creative expression into a rules-based procedure and mechanically involved system in a multiplayer game. Invariably it turns into a one-on-one session between the GM and the one player who wants to use the crafting system while the rest of the table sit on their thumbs. Crafting systems delenda est.
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Apr 13, 2024 07:24
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LatwPIAT posted:There are thousands of tabletop RPGs out there and I haven’t played them all, but if I simply make the bold declaration that the answer is “no, there has never been one”, I’m going to be correct like 99% of the time and at worst someone will correct me by pointing to an obscure 2013 release that was only played by five people in total and now lives on page 230 of drivethrurpg and I’ll be pleasantly surprised. I have played/read through 100s of games over the last 50 years, and all TTRPG crafting systems basically suck with one caveat, 'Weird Science ' creation systems tend to suck less (except for TORG's, of course, which is a massive dumpster fire). The ones that have sucked the least are one's like Castle Falkenstein or even Space 1889 1st edition. They went more freeform rather than rigid structure.
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Apr 13, 2024 08:13
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Gray Ghost posted:Has anyone who backed it played around with the Broken Weave PDFs yet? It’s an interesting take on D&D 5e as it removes the spell list and Bonus Actions while using a lot of their Uncharted Journey and Lifepath supplements to shore up the Exploration mechanics. I really want to run a session of it soon. I've gotten it, but not given it a proper read yet.
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Apr 13, 2024 08:16
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Got my copy of Deathmatch Island, game looks fun even if I have a hard time getting how to run the skill checks/encounters.
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Apr 13, 2024 16:17
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MonsieurChoc posted:Got my copy of Deathmatch Island, game looks fun even if I have a hard time getting how to run the skill checks/encounters. “Everybody rolls” is a big shift in mindset, but it works well in Agon so I have high hopes.
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Apr 13, 2024 17:21
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I liked Shadowrun's magical crafting system from Second edition. You want to build a magical focus? It requires these items based on a a dice roll that all looks like nifty bits of lore or adventure hooks. The actual crafting is just time spent and skill rolls.
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Apr 13, 2024 18:34
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I’m pretty sure that stream is going to be in Japanese and I don’t know if there will be a translator for the tabletop rpg secondary stream I found the youtube live link and it's literally 10 hours of gameplay with no captions. So, Countblanc posted:hopefully someone bilingual will write up a summary after a while
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Apr 13, 2024 21:08
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LatwPIAT posted:There are thousands of tabletop RPGs out there and I haven’t played them all, but if I simply make the bold declaration that the answer is “no, there has never been one”, I’m going to be correct like 99% of the time and at worst someone will correct me by pointing to an obscure 2013 release that was only played by five people in total and now lives on page 230 of drivethrurpg and I’ll be pleasantly surprised. I've been thinking about crafting the last day or so and I think you've hit on one big reason that I very much agree with, but I think there's also a second one. Most all these RPGs don't require players to engage with a crafting system, which means they have to be able to get their equipment some other way. Like as loot or by buying it or whatever. That means an optional crafting path is in competition with the other option and it is probably very difficult, maybe impossible, to balance that exactly. If Leigh gets their magic sword by finding it in a chest guarded by a gargoyle but Bree gets their magic sword by building it in a shop in town, did Bree get to take less risk or spend less resources? Or maybe Bree had to spend a year of off time swordcrafting while Leigh got their sword after two days travel and a couple hours of exploration. Feels bad for Bree to have to wait? But how long, exactly, should Bree have to spend to "balance" the danger Leigh was exposed to? These equivalences aren't really equivalent. I've seen many different ways to try to square this circle: maybe Bree needs pieces of monsters to build that sword, but then that's still more effort than Leigh... maybe Leigh's sword just isn't as good as Bree's, but then the party may decide to just not go on adventures because crafting is strictly better. How many monsters exactly equals an expenditure of party off-time? What a crafting system needs to do is reward the players for engaging with the game systems that are actually fun to engage with, let them get the stuff they need to do the fun things, and not replace the fun things. I suspect that means a crafting system is good for a game setting and system where it's OK for crafting to be completely mandatory, and also occur in the offtime off-screen between-sessions game. By being mandatory, you can remove the tension between finding better stuff vs. making better stuff by always or nearly always having the stuff you make be the best. That doesn't automatically make the crafting good mind you. It could still be tedious or simplistic or whatever. But I think it might be a requirement for it to be good.
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Apr 13, 2024 21:57
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I would put it another way: Why does your crafting system have to be about making the things that help players increase their numbers? If it's about how you get plot mcguffins instead, then only one player has to engage with the system but the whole party gets to have fun getting all the different rare items that go into crafting the thing they need to do plot stuff.
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Apr 13, 2024 22:55
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I like the idea of crafting systems giving players more choices. Instead of finding the Flaming Sword of Doom in the dragon's horde, they get the dragon's flaming heart which they can then chose to use to craft the Flaming Sword of Doom, or the Axe of Dooming Flame or the Staff of Flaming Doom.
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Apr 13, 2024 23:02
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In that case it's not really the crafting, it's the choices. It wouldn't matter if you crafted it yourself, or gave it to the guy with the exclamation point over his head that then offers you one of those three things as your reward. Which is fine of course! But you don't need a complex crafting system to do that. It can literally be "with a dragon's flaming heart, you can forge one of these three magic weapons. It also costs 200 gold pieces and takes a long weekend."
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Apr 13, 2024 23:26
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Leperflesh posted:In that case it's not really the crafting, it's the choices. It wouldn't matter if you crafted it yourself, or gave it to the guy with the exclamation point over his head that then offers you one of those three things as your reward. Rights, that's what I mean, Crafting as a system of choice, it doesn't matter if it's the player hammering the component into the final result or if they just throw it into a magic box and the results come out. I think it was 3.5e or PF1e that let you destroy magic items to get "magicium" or some such that you could then use as a component to make new magic items, kinda like a trade in system. That's the type of "crafting" I think can be valuable.
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Apr 13, 2024 23:45
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D&D 4e has Residuum or some poo poo like that too IIRC. It's a net loss of value and I don't remember anyone engaging with that system, because it's still much more costly than just receiving your items via adventuring, which every adventure did. But it was there!
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Apr 13, 2024 23:54
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Roll to craft 19 Nice work! You made a shirt. Unless the whole game is gathering materials and carefully crafting, I don’t see how it’d be any more complicated than that. Video games complicating tabletop games just seems silly.
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Apr 14, 2024 00:38
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Seems like you'd want to look at the thing you want crafting to do and build from there, but this is of course the lies of the Devil to consider.
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Apr 14, 2024 00:45
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My RPG crafting story is a guy in D&D wanting to make a katana at a blacksmith shop for no reason, in about an hour. I pushed back on this for some reason as the GM (the reason is I was 16) and he argued that he had gone to Japan and made a katana there and it only took an hour. In retrospect I don't know why I gave a poo poo and should've just been like "sure whatever you have a longsword just like the one you already had" but also I shouldn't have played with that guy.
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Apr 14, 2024 00:54
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Cool Dad posted:My RPG crafting story is a guy in D&D wanting to make a katana at a blacksmith shop for no reason, in about an hour. I pushed back on this for some reason as the GM (the reason is I was 16) and he argued that he had gone to Japan and made a katana there and it only took an hour.
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Apr 14, 2024 00:57
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It was 2e I don't think scimitars were in the PHB but also I'm not going to check.
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Apr 14, 2024 00:57
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Having done some blacksmithing myself, I would welcome the opportunity to completely derail a game session with my "well actually" detailed discussion of metallurgy, smelting, forging, the difference between crucible steel and pattern-welded steel, heat treatment techniques, and the proportion of a weaponsmith's time spent actually smithing vs. all the other poo poo but since that'd ruin things at the table the right answer would be "gently caress off gerry, you don't get a free katana, don't try to snow me with that bullshit" because there's no way this is the first or only time gerry has tried this poo poo and if we don't lock it down now it's never gonna stop
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Apr 14, 2024 01:09
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Leperflesh posted:I've been thinking about crafting the last day or so and I think you've hit on one big reason that I very much agree with, but I think there's also a second one. This is of course not an experience that should be carried over to the tabletop. What would also suck is an adventure to get the stuff needed to craft a +4 dagger of nutshots for the rogue, and the rest of the party not getting jack out of it. I can see crafting fitting in with a variety of "gear-level-ups": Aelthwynn replaces her long sword +2 with a long sword +3 the party found, Baerth uses an impossibly fine grindstone to sharpen his battle axe from +2 to +3, Corwid uses the lamia nails and gorgon blood (as well as the residuum from the long sword +2) from the last adventure as reagents to increase the puissance of his wizard's staff to a +3 implement, and Durndan has become more attuned to his ancestral warhammer, passed down from his father and his father before him (so it now performs as a +3 warhammer). So long as it's no more onerous than stumbling across a weapon of equivalent power, crafting should be an alternative way to get better gear in those games that demand gear improvement.
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Apr 14, 2024 01:10
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Crafting in Fragged Empire is just a fluff aspect of the normal gear and item acquisition system and a fully integrated portion of character progression. It's the same system as buying new gear, just using different skills for your acquisition check.
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Apr 14, 2024 01:18
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Also progressing your gear, vehicles, assets etc. in Fragged is very simple because everything has a listed cost in Resources, Influence, Knowledge (Research), or just a Spare Time Point acq. roll so you can either afford the upgrade or you can't.
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Apr 14, 2024 01:23
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I was wondering when somebody was going to bring up Fragged, I would have but I'm not 100% on how it works.
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Apr 14, 2024 01:34
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